Jimquisition: Dragon's Frown

[Dr. Crawver]

Might just be me, but I always feel better if there is negative criticism about something, or rather, two or multiple sides to something.

I don't know how to explain it but I always get a weird feeling if something is highly loved by every single person.

Couldn't agree more. After there being cases of reviews being bought out, and even a reviewer losing his job because he gave a mediocre review to a game (I think it was kane and lynch? Been a while, so I can't remember), that the fact that there are negative reviews which the developer doesn't seem to mind means that the other reviews are most likely going to be genuine.

 

[Roman Monaghan]

I don't dislike Dragon's Crown because I'm a woman, or because I've been paid off by someone, or because I want extra attention; I dislike it because it's depictions of women make me feel uncomfortable that someone out there thinks that this is what I want to look at, and it makes me irritated to see an entire gender reduced to being tits, asses, and sexy poses.

Exactly. Dudes can feel uncomfortable by creepy overt sexualization of this nature as well. Apparently being put off by the content of a game isn't a valid reason to not like it or something. Imagine if this topic was instead talking about the Saw movies and people were saying the opinions of those who don't like the movies cuz they're not a fan of gore aren't valid as well? It's almost kinda creepy when you scratch out "sexism" and replace it with something else of that nature where you'd have much much less people saying that it's a bad reason to not like a thing.

 

[EnglishBlues]

People defending DC: Ignore boobs,talk about gameplay.
People who hated it: Ignore gameplay, talk about boobs.

I feel in the eye of the hurricane now, but I'm still getting this, my only question now is if I should get this on PS3 or Vita.

Maybe I should do a comic about this...

This. Times a billion. The concerns of sexism and female portrayal in games are warranted, but for the love of Chainsaw Buddha, do I ever want to smash watercolor foes to death with magic. Methinks PS3.

 

[IshimaruHayato]

Sometimes I buy games with low scores to see what was wrong with it. Sonic 06 and Dynasty warriors gundam for example. Low scores don't influence my decision to buy a game. Also I found the Amazon more offensive then the magic user. The amazon does mid-air twerking for god sake. How did that not get attention?!

 

[Madman123456]

To be fair, i have seen many reviews that differ from overall opinions in what i suspect was an attempt to get more hits for the site.

But generally, i agree. Gamers need to learn how to keep their traps shut because our opinions are rather stupid most of the time and therefore worthless.
Which is to be expected about anything that's typed in a few seconds.

 

[Something Amyss]

The facehugger attacks once again. Jim, I fear that you never may escape Aliens: Colonial Marines.
... ever.

Much like the titular critters of the franchise, ACM is a force of nature.

Now onto the topic at hand. It does feel that the gaming community is spoiled (In my opinion), games as you said that people complain and demand a '10/10' (Whatever 10/10 is these days. It feels like 10/10 should be impossible to achieve). It is annoying that the single bad review is gaining all of the press now instead of the praise.

In fact, the Escapist gave it a lower score, so you'd think that'd be the focus.

More to the point, I dislike the notion that you can't enjoy a game if someone else doesn't. Then again, I'm like Jim. Not only does that mean I am magnificent, it also means I really enjoy Dynasty Warriors games (though I prefer Samurai Warriors). But even among my friends, I'm puzzled by their desire for me to enjoy the same media. I mean, yeah, we share common interests. It's why we're friends. But we don't need to share every interest. A couple of my friends loved the Deadpool game, but I'm not going to disown them for a differing opinion.

...Unless they like Twilight. >.>

Now in my opinion, the character design is the thing that turns me off this game. Call it satire, parody of how we portray gaming/RPG characters but ...

I find most of the art displeasing. Not just sorceress or whoever Busty St. Claire is, but just in general. It's a turnoff in a game where one primary point is supposed to be the overall aesthetics.

And while I'm on the subject, Polygon had some other criticisms that seem fair, at least from the point of view of someone who hasn't played the game. Maybe they're outright lying, but I doubt it. In any event, it's not just about teh bewbs.

Maybe a 6.5 was unfair, I don't know, but the review argued for a game that doesn't seem worthy of the other scores. That doesn't make them invalid, but it does justify its stance.

In any event, if people like it, awesome. I thought a lot of the 80s/90s art was ugly back then and I often hate homages to it now. Polygon called it unapologetic adolescent fantasy, and for a lot of people, that seems to be a good thing, so rock on. If that's your thing.

It does amaze me, though, the nerve of people demanding a review be changed.

 

[Yuuki]

I hate to be "that guy" but this is the first mention I've heard of Polygon's review. Now I'm going to have to read it to find out what all the noise is about.
All I knew is that the game has been getting generally positive score (yay, another one worth keeping on the shelf) and if one or two scores were bad, I'm totally fine with that.

Hell, the Escapist OWN review rated the game 3/5 stars, marking it down for the female character design (the reviewer was female so that was expected), and I'm totally fine with that score too.

Where did this massive explosion about Polygon's review happen exactly? On just Polygon's site? Or everywhere else too?

 

[Something Amyss]

People defending DC: Ignore boobs,talk about gameplay.
People who hated it: Ignore gameplay, talk about boobs.

That isn't strictly true however. Many proponents have praised the art and many opponents have criticised the gameplay.

 

[kazriko]

Honestly, I just think that it's silly that so many sites including small sites gave it high scores, but the only ones that give them poor reviews have been 2 of the biggest sites. One of those sites did the same thing to other games recently. I've just decided that I should focus on the smaller sites anyway since they seem to match my opinions more and are less tainted by the desire to generate controversy.

Thus, I dropped Polygon from my RSS reader. The occasional good article was getting overshadowed by their intentionally controversy-generating reviews, so they're out. They're entitled to their silliness, but I'm not going to contribute to it anymore.

And to the people on the facebook comments section, no, 6.5 is not Average when it comes to a 1 to 10 scale, because in general publications use them like the US letter grade system and only use half the scale in general. 1.0 to 5.0 is abysmal, while 6 to 6.5 is below average, 7 to 7.5 is average. (C rating, essentially.) If something gets below an 85 on metacritic, there's a subset of people who won't even look at it. It's at 83 right now, and the reviews from Escapist and Polygon are the two that are pulling it beneath an 85 given that they're giving below average marks to a game that is getting above average reviews everywhere else. Escapist is understandable because they're using a 1-5 scale, so 60% is an "average" game to them.

(RPGamer's pulling it down too, even though a 4/5 is well above average on their scale, but translated to metacritic scale becomes a slightly above average score instead. Metacritic really needs to recognize that some sites use the entire scale, while other sites don't.)

I hate to be "that guy" but this is the first mention I've heard of Polygon's review. Now I'm going to have to read it to find out what all the noise is about.
All I knew is that the game has been getting generally positive score (yay, another one worth keeping on the shelf) and if one or two scores were bad, I'm totally fine with that.

I heard about it on Playstation Lifestyle, and from the review itself. When I saw it at first, I rolled my eyes and went to the next, being happy about all the positive ones.

Hell, the Escapist OWN review rated the game 3/5 stars, marking it down for the female character design (the reviewer was female so that was expected), and I'm totally fine with that score too.

But that's a 3/5, whereas on a 1-10 scale, normally 6-10 is the equivalent to 1-5. A 6.5 is closer to a 1.5/5 stars.

Here's an example of a 1-10 or 1-100 grading scale. http://www.rpgfan.com/graphics/gradingscale_lg.jpg Polygon's policy is similar, stated at the bottom of this, but a bit more technical. http://www.polygon.com/pages/about-reviews You can see that 6.0-6.9 matches up with the "subpar" rating on RPGFan pretty well, which means it's probably in the 1 to 1.5 star rating on a site that uses a smaller scale like that.

Where did this massive explosion about Polygon's review happen exactly? On just Polygon's site? Or everywhere else too?

Neogaf, mostly.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Breasts are breasts. All woman have them. An yes some people use them to sexualise woman and others dont. In a world of porn and mags i just dont seem the point in moaning about one game. Men are sexualised with big muscles, unfortunately thats the way it is. Big breasts or big pecs....its the same thing. But in a world where female singers dress like whores, i think games are the least of your worries.

But as for this game. Is it good or bad? Is it fun or shit? The characters dont matter. Ok, she has big breasts and i understand that people take offense to that. But she isnt a whore, isnt stripping, isnt naked and isnt whipping them out to beat the enemy with them. Seems its just she is a woman with big breasts in a game.

 

[Silly Hats]

Ehh, ME3 is on my top 10 list of all time favourite games and i've sunk hours of Dynasty Warriors years back. This is a good video.

 

[Lightknight]

Breasts are breasts. All woman have them. An yes some people use them to sexualise woman and others dont. In a world of porn and mags i just dont seem the point in moaning about one game. Men are sexualised with big muscles, unfortunately thats the way it is. Big breasts or big pecs....its the same thing. But in a world where female singers dress like whores, i think games are the least of your worries.

But as for this game. Is it good or bad? Is it fun or shit? The characters dont matter. Ok, she has big breasts and i understand that people take offense to that. But she isnt a whore, isnt stripping, isnt naked and isnt whipping them out to beat the enemy with them. Seems its just she is a woman with big breasts in a game.

I was with you right up until the whores bit.

I think it's important to realize that developers exaggerate the elements of people which are found to be culturally desireable. Men are usually desired to be strong though as of late it's the desire to capture a rugged look while the individual is more toned muscle-wise. Women have hips/legs/butts/breasts that are incredibly easy to exaggerate. If men had some such attribute that was socially desireable then you can bet it'd be exaggerated. But it's not that appropriate to have a huge bulging trunk running down the inside of the character's pants so they stick with muscles.

But as to this video. Kudos to Jim for pressing this point. There being dissenting opinions is a sign of a healthy society and we just need to learn what reviewers like the kinds of games we enjoy and to pay attention to them more than the people who dissent with our likes. At the end of the day we are talking about subjective tastes unless the mechanics are particularly bad and so subjectivity will be highly relative.

 

[Roman Monaghan]

Hell, the Escapist OWN review rated the game 3/5 stars, marking it down for the female character design (the reviewer was female so that was expected), and I'm totally fine with that score too.

Oh, just... what is wrong with you? "the reviewer was female so that was expected"? Did you THINK about how stupid and horrible that would make you said before you said it, or are you just firing from the hip here? As if not male worth his balls would dare knock this game for the creepy uncomfortable disgusting overly sexualized character designs or something, it is JUST the women folk we should expect that from? More then the game itself, it's people like you making it so easy to be put off by this damn game.

Oh dragons crown. People try so hard, and in vain, to defend you, when it is ever so easy to poke fun at how horrifically sexist you are.

http://fucknovideogames.tumblr.com/post/57454571665/coelasquid-hokuto-ju-no-ken

Sometimes I love the internet.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Personally, I blame heightened expectations for games raised by marketing buzz at it's announcement, especially by trailers. Those things make games look "cinematic" without showing any proper gameplay. Even worse if they don't tell you who's who, what they're doing, or why they're doing it and you should give a damn about it (which is what put me off the Last of Us).

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

I think it all boils down to the overall quality of review. See, first and foremost it's a 2D RPG/beat-em-up. In case of that review reviewer but a lot of stock into particular art style quirks which are highly, highly subjective. See, all reviews are subjective but what differentiates a good reviewer is ability to determine which parts are most important. That depiction of women ties very neatly into medieval fantasy theme. A good reviewer would evaluate gameplay, RPG elements, story and such first and stuff like huge boobs second. That review reads like a whiny blog and that's the issue.
It would be all fine and good if they scored the game low based on core elements like leveling system. But on basis on some highly subjective and arguably stupid elements of art?
See Jim, the point being it's not a professional review. It's a whiny blog. If we don't stomp such "reviewers" now next thing will be Dynasty Warriors getting 1 and 2 scores because of lack of proper beard on certain characters.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Breasts are breasts. All woman have them. An yes some people use them to sexualise woman and others dont. In a world of porn and mags i just dont seem the point in moaning about one game. Men are sexualised with big muscles, unfortunately thats the way it is. Big breasts or big pecs....its the same thing. But in a world where female singers dress like whores, i think games are the least of your worries.

But as for this game. Is it good or bad? Is it fun or shit? The characters dont matter. Ok, she has big breasts and i understand that people take offense to that. But she isnt a whore, isnt stripping, isnt naked and isnt whipping them out to beat the enemy with them. Seems its just she is a woman with big breasts in a game.

I was with you right up until the whores bit.

I think it's important to realize that developers exaggerate the elements of people which are found to be culturally desireable. Men are usually desired to be strong though as of late it's the desire to capture a rugged look while the individual is more toned muscle-wise. Women have hips/legs/butts/breasts that are incredibly easy to exaggerate. If men had some such attribute that was socially desireable then you can bet it'd be exaggerated. But it's not that appropriate to have a huge bulging trunk running down the inside of the character's pants so they stick with muscles.

But as to this video. Kudos to Jim for pressing this point. There being dissenting opinions is a sign of a healthy society and we just need to learn what reviewers like the kinds of games we enjoy and to pay attention to them more than the people who dissent with our likes. At the end of the day we are talking about subjective tastes unless the mechanics are particularly bad and so subjectivity will be highly relative.

Its all in context. In this game its a woman with big breasts. Thats it. Now compare that with that dead and Alive game with bikini clad woman jumping around in pool sports (not the beat em up) and thats sexualised. Its all in context. An yes men go for breasts and woman go for muscles. Thats just a fact....not for every body but we all like a good looking person. An for men its big breasts over small breasts and woman likes muscles over fat guys. Now there are a ton of other things ontop of that, intelligence, humour etc Just going by first perceptions. But i think if people are pointing fingers then start with bikini clad models in mags, popstars dressed as whores and then look to games after that.

Im writing this from the UK where they just banned (forced to put into a black bag) lads mags because they have a woman in a bikini on the cover. Its just dumb to me, especially when you think of what a person can find on the internet.

 

[I.Muir]

People really lost their minds over anything a reviewer wrote? That seems a bit odd but whatever some people are like that I suppose. I guess everybody can't just think the opinion of reviewers doesn't matter or they would be out of a job.