Jimquisition: Dragon's Frown

[Disposed]

And now that this is a hot topic we're going to get a lot of people complaining about the character design in Skull Girls when it comes out on PC in a few weeks. Great. -.-

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Implying the fact that you most likely have a proper use in mind of generating review scores, a statement im highly interested in and would like to know how such a thing would be possible.

It seems you've misinterpreted my meaning. I suppose I could have been more clear, but I never meant to imply there was a correct way to generate a review score. When I say, "... how people misuse them" I am referring to how consumers/gamers interpret/use them.

So then what is the correct way to properly make use (use that in the future, MAKE use) of review scores and interpret them :U?

There isn't one!

An interpretation can't be "the right one". However, individuals can like individual interpretations.

As for review scores, I like the way X-Play did it with there 5/5 system, because to get the most out of it you had to read the review, or at least watch it.

The trick was the score was about how good the game was, but rather how well the reviewer could recommend it.

For example:

1/5= I really fond this game to be terrible. It had a lot of issues, and few redeeming qualities. I can not recommend buying this game. If for whatever reason you want to see it for yourself, at most, I say rent it.
(To get the most out of it, you have to check the review to see what was so bad.)

2/5= I found the game to be pretty bad, but it did have some good things. However, they are so out numbered/valued by the bad I can just not recommend someone to buy it. Rent it if ya want to see how it is, and then maybe buy it later.
(Again, ya got to see the review to find out more about the game.)

3/5= The game was alright. It was pretty good in some parts, but it still had some bad flaws you really couldn't ignore/avoid. Worth a rent at the very least.

4/5= The game was pretty good. Most of the time I was enjoying myself. However, there are a few issues that may be deal breakers, but if they don't bother you, feel free to buy the game. At the very least you should rent it, and see what it's like.

5/5= The game is great! Not perfect, but I can completely recommend that you buy the game. There are very few reasons why you shouldn't.
(To find out why you may not want to buy the game(or why you should) ya have to check the review.)

Keep in mind, I'm not saying that this is "the right way to do it", or maybe even the best way, but it's the way I like.

I'm so excited about this game, I just drew this!

Spoiler

Having said that, yeah, some designs aren't to my taste...but to simply ignore the good cause there's a thing or two your tastes don't agree with is ignorant.


The reviewer ignores a lot of good art design, a whole lot of it, if she uses one the games' BEST features to justify her score of 65. (which is a D, if we go by exams, this game isn't a D)

First off: I am very jealous that I can't draw that well.

Second: As I said, there isn't a "right way" to do scoring so just going off the score can't mean much. Especially with the 10/10 system. Some use it like the school system(in that a 6 is a failing grade, and anything lower is just a more pungent turd), but some like Angry Joe have 6/10 as there average mark, so a 6.5 would mean somewhat above average.

So I'd go more by what the reviewer said, rather than just the score they gave. For example, even in the positive reviews I've seen of the game(like here on the escapist) the reviewer did mention the issue with the titillation. One even commented on how he was surprised the narrator was able to say all his lines without laughing.

That said, there are a few other miner issues I've heard about Dragon's Crown. Repetitiveness being one, but that's to be somewhat expected with a brawler, and it wasn't a major issue. The others were that the quests are sometimes had to follow, and that the upgraded gear didn't look all that different from the lower level gear. Those ones are a bit more important, at least to me.

What I'm trying to get at is the game does have some flaws, and perhaps that adds to the issues with the titillation problems. Because the game isn't doing as good as it could, you notice the smaller problems more. It doesn't help that it sounds like the game shoves the problem in your face.

That said, I can't make a final call until I've played the game myself. Which will be soon.

 

[Sheo_Dagana]

It's something I don't understand either. Adam Sessler (rightfully) gave God of War: Ascension a 3 out of 5 and people flipped their shit. You see, this is the internet, and the biggest number wins; so if some reviewer out there doesn't tow the line and give Call of Duty a score above 9, the fans get angry. Most people just try to justify it with the whole "they don't like Call of Duty anyway, so that reviewer's score shouldn't count 'cause it's not objective" line. It's why I'm always suspicious of games that get 10s across the board. The Last of Us was no where near as good (to me) as I was led to believe and I would personally rate it at a 7 or an 8 if I was feeling generous, yet the game had only a few less than perfect scores.

There's really no such thing as an objective review anyway. You can try and say that there is, but at the end of the day, you're asking for someone's opinion on something. It's like asking for someone's opinion on something and then getting pissed off at them because their position doesn't line up with your own. The real question is why anyone would care what a reviewer has to say about something you already like. I can only imagine it's because people view those scores as an insult against them.

But then again I also like Dynasty Warriors, so I got used to ignoring reviews a long time ago. You'll never really know unless you pick up a game and play it for yourself.

 

[jericu]

People defending DC: Ignore boobs,talk about gameplay.
People who hated it: Ignore gameplay, talk about boobs.

I feel in the eye of the hurricane now, but I'm still getting this, my only question now is if I should get this on PS3 or Vita.

Maybe I should do a comic about this...

...Except the review in question actually praised the gameplay, saying there was good enemy variety and the boss battles were awesome and did a good job breaking up the regular combat. The reviewer had a problem with the objectification of many of the women in the game, yes, but also criticized the art style (which, as Jim mentions, is a perfectly valid criticism) and the repetitive nature of the game as it makes you go through the same levels multiple times.

 

[Lunar Templar]

*sighs*

well, least I get to feel like the smart one and not give a fuck what any reviewer says about a game, nont gonna say ever cause sometimes a good review has gotten me to buy a game, your review of the new Devil May Cry ended up with me buying it (mostly to play it and find flaws to use against it, how dare they make the game good, bastards)

 

[GonzoGamer]

It doesn't bother me as much when a game gets under-rated, It's just not my place to get upset about it. It's the over-rated games that bother me. Before I started renting I would sometimes buy a game that seemed interesting and got good scores only to find that it bored me to tears.
No More Heroes is the game that got me into Gamefly. Everybody (even Yhatzee) said it was so great but I found it to be one of the most tedious games of this generation.

 

[Mr_Terrific]

Video kinda ignores 2 of the main reasons why people took issue with the Polygon review. And I feel like it's a much larger issue that the usual fans being mad at a random low score.

The two low scores are both from women offended by the art style and depiction of woman.

One of the scores is from a site funded by MS.

Both issues are worthy of a mention but instead we rag on fans of the game who want to see talented developers get the credit they deserve, and not lowballed for hits or politics...

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

*sighs*

well, least I get to feel like the smart one and not give a fuck what any reviewer says about a game, nont gonna say ever cause sometimes a good review has gotten me to buy a game, your review of the new Devil May Cry ended up with me buying it (mostly to play it and find flaws to use against it, how dare they make the game good, bastards)

I'll be honest and say I haven't seen said review, nor I condemn it, but I recall reading a review that said that the gameplay was held down by the depiction of women in this game, says more about the person reviewing it than the game itself IMO.

Don't recall where I read it though.

 

[mjc0961]

I can not give a shit about review scores and enjoy the damn game, that's what.

...Yeah, I paused the video right after the question at the start to post this. I would say it seems silly to need an episode that says something so obvious, but I know better than that. People on the internet are fucking stupid and think that any negative review score needs to be "fixed" to match their own opinion because only their opinion matters and anyone who disagrees is wrong. So yeah, they need to be told otherwise, but sadly these people will ignore it because once again, their opinion of what they should do is right and anyone else's is wrong.

Love how the Vita turned into a facehugger (is that what it's called?), though. Good gag! It's certainly the most entertainment I've gotten out of a Vita all year as well.

Video kinda ignores 2 of the main reasons why people took issue with the Polygon review. And I feel like it's a much larger issue that the usual fans being mad at a random low score.

The two low scores are both from women offended by the art style and depiction of woman.

One of the scores is from a site funded by MS.

Both issues are worthy of a mention but instead we rag on fans of the game who want to see talented developers get the credit they deserve, and not lowballed for hits or politics...

And why does this change what I should do? Them giving the game a low score because they're feminists means just as little to me as them giving it a low score because they didn't like the game. It still doesn't change MY enjoyment of a game, so why should I care? I still see no reason to. At most, this just lets me know not to take these two particular reviewers seriously.

 

[Rblade]

So... the game scored 6.5/10, or 65%, in one review. It scored more than half marks. And this is a *bad* thing?

This is why numerical quantification of a subjective opinion is useless.

although I don't mind if a game gets a 6.5 I don't agree with people saying it's "average". A studio should be ashamed of themselfs if they release a game that gets mostly 5's. Thats an insuficient grade, unlike professors gamers are paying for a product so a 6 is the absolute bottom line grade wise that you can expect from a game. In that perspective an 8 is average. Mechanically sound, little or no bugs and other big problems with attention to the details but nothing really special. a 4 or 5 should never have been released.

But like you said it's a problem with grading to begin with. In this case I think a game should at least be graded on different things seperatly.

 

[Lunar Templar]

*sighs*

well, least I get to feel like the smart one and not give a fuck what any reviewer says about a game, nont gonna say ever cause sometimes a good review has gotten me to buy a game, your review of the new Devil May Cry ended up with me buying it (mostly to play it and find flaws to use against it, how dare they make the game good, bastards)

I'll be honest and say I haven't seen said review, nor I condemn it, but I recall reading a review that said that the gameplay was held down by the depiction of women in this game, says more about the person reviewing it than the game itself IMO.

Don't recall where I read it though.

I made up my mind about DC awhile ago, If I had a PS3(still) or Vita, I'd get it

 

[xPixelatedx]

I think you missed the point a tad, Jim, but just a tad.

Yeah, people are definitely overreacting, especially if they are being stupid enough to request the review be taken down or changed. However the majority of people upset over the review really are just upset, and they have every right to be... just like the person who reviewed it had every right to give it an average score.

The reason why it's such a large focus of attention is because that review was part of a continuing drama that existed before the game's release; drama even you tapped around in one of your videos. If the negative review didn't mention breasts at all, it wouldn't have gotten quite the level of attention it did. But someone was once again content to opened a healing wound and rub salt in it, which is kind of sad because so many were just happy to finally get to play the game by this point, even if the game wasn't that good. They also set a precedent that not a lot of people want:

"Mario games are functional and fun, but Mario portrays Italians in an insensitive 'cartoonish' manner, -2 points."

As interesting as it would be to see game reviews get so "creative", a lot of people don't want that. Sadly, I am one of them, because I just want to play fun games and I think a lot of people are in that mindset. Such political bias almost made me avoid getting Metroid: Other M... Seeing Morgan Web scream "FUCK YOU" at the game screen during her review was pretty jarring. While M wasn't the most spectacular game in the franchise, it certainly wasn't the travesty many reviewers were calling it. I enjoyed it quite a bit more then say, Metroid Prime 3. It was a solid Team Ninja game full of fun action and a little bit of metroidness here and there. A lot of people missed out on that because of the reviews, most of which were quite biased like Morgan Web's were. I think that's very sad, even if I don't agree with the portrayal of Samus in that game.

But yeah, in short this had to do with a whole lot more then just one negative review.

 

[Rad Party God]

I feel you Jim, I absolutely love The Secret World and it has an average score of 73 on Metacritic, IMHO, the game deserves a lot more than that, but that's just the biased being in me talking. One of the reviews was written at the time the game launched and the reviewer said he ran into a couple of broken quests (as I said, he wrote it at launch) and he massively lowered the score, arguing that he "lost his trust" in the devs for thinking it's either a broken quest or not.

He's right to some degree, but the thing with any MMO, is that the game is constantly changing and most if not all of his complaints were already fixed in subsequent patches, but that score still lingers and stains the overall score. I was slightly dissapointed back then and I quickly ignored it, because I was (and still am) pretty busy enjoying the game itselfa lot, instead of worrying about some sad bloke who didn't liked it because of a problem that's already fixed.

 

[mike1921]

So... the game scored 6.5/10, or 65%, in one review. It scored more than half marks. And this is a *bad* thing?

This is why numerical quantification of a subjective opinion is useless.

Because you have high tolerance for mediocrity? I see little distinction between mediocre and bad, neither is worth playing or watching if you have alternatives.

 

[Roman Monaghan]

I wasn't really looking forward to Dragons Crown, since I was put off by how uncomfortable the female character designs in it were way before it was cool (when the very very very very very first teaser trailer came out showing off the Amazon I went 'eww no thanks' a half a year before Kotaku ever did a pointless idiotic story on it) and Muramasa was re-released on the Vita to gimme my Vanilla ware fix, so I was quite content! More companies should do that, me thinks.

But yeah, you see this sorta thing happening all the time, and even as someone who doesn't care much for the game, it's disappointing. This is why I have such derision towards the term "fan", because it's really just short for fanatic, and, well, that's exactly how you see "fans" acting when it comes to something like this. Like fanatics. You saw the same thing happen when Pacific Rim came out, and if there was a single review of it that wasn't calling the movie absolutely perfect, even if it was an over all positive review, if they mentioned it had even a single flaw the fantards came out in droves to spew their hate everywhere.

This isn't a new topic, so I'm glad Jim is talking about it with something relevant to the gaming scene to use as an example point.

 

[Callate]

A game with universally high-positive reviews ought to be either the Second Coming (and occur with near-equal rarity) or a cause for suspicion. It's a pity some of us seem to have gotten into this weird headspace where games we like- and especially franchises we like- become somehow sacrosanct. Rare is the game that doesn't have room for improvement, and if we lose any ground between "flawless" and "grab the torches and pitchforks and prepare to boycott" where we can honestly discuss ways to make games better, we all lose.

It was perhaps inevitable that DC would become a flashpoint for something like this, in as much as a negative review- and especially one focused as Polygon's apparently was- seems to many to be less of a judgment of the game's merits as a game or even its aesthetics as its morals. I can get why some might be upset, but I also think we do a certain disservice not just to Atlas and Vanillaware but to gaming as a whole by implying that we're unwilling to have games judged on such factors. Even as we demand that games and gamers be viewed as mature works played by mature players, there's an element of "they're trying to take away our toys" to some of the sentiments that seems a little disturbing to me.

I don't have a PS3 or Vita; barring Atlas bringing it to PC, I'm not likely to get a chance to play Dragon's Crown. It's a pity, I think I would enjoy it- over-the-top artistic choices and all. For all that we talk- not incorrectly- about the excessive amount of female characters in video games who are rounded in every way except personality- I really don't feel like I've seen something like DC in the mainstream. It made a firm choice to stylize in a way that's over-the-top, and in a medium full of sepia-brown-grey men walking away from explosions, I honestly have to applaud that.