Jimquisition: Dumbing Down for the Filthy Casuals

[Korten12]

I think the next step is explaining how to properly implement an "easy mode" in dark souls. Because from what I understand with this thread, the difficulty isn't just based on numbers which can easily be manipulated.

It is. Make all enemies hit for 1/3 of the damage they usually do and half as often. There you are, a perfectly functional easy mode that takes a couple of hours to implement.

If anything what bothers me is how people here talk like Dark Souls was OMG impressively hard when in the big scheme of games:

Spoiler

Quite sure it will be at connect four level in game AI at best.

Wrong let... Me... explain... fucking again... I swear people don't read the important posts and just continue to think difficulties in games are just all numbers it's not...

"Let me explain this... Again... A game like Dues Ex is built with multiple difficulties in mind. How it's created allows for the developers to add more enemies, do higher damage, and such. Dark Souls is not. The level design, how each level is played is centered around being hard. Just adding more enemies and increasing health and damage for a hard mode, or lessening them is missing the point as to why Dark Souls is hard.

It's hard because the levels are made to be. In most games like I mentioned (with Dues Ex) are built with multiple difficulties, where as Dark Souls isn't. Hence if they wanted to add Easy mode, they would have to change the whole way difficulties work because at the current moment it wouldn't work just changing the stats on enemies.

Thus this is why Easy mode would hamper the game as they would be forced to change how Dark Souls is played unless they want to design the game twice which is just stupid and asking for a lot."

(Repost of what I said to Xisin.)

Thats not true there was a moment they were going to put it in. Just saying it is hard on the level design is a flawed perspective because Miyazaki the director of Dark Souls said we were going to put it in so there are a ton of different ways DS can be made easier. Ninja Gaiden of xbox is difficult right from the get go and when the ps3 remake game out ninja gaiden sigma there was an easier mode and it still had the same level design.

Wrong, that was a mistranslation. They never said they were going to make difficulties. They said they wanted more people to finish while maintaining the same level of difficulty meaning probably a better tutorial, which is all Dark Souls really needs. That and people for people to be patience, which apparently people now a days don't have. Dark Souls is difficult but not hard. If you go slow, really make sure you pay attention, it can be a very soothing experience. Problem is, people don't want to go slow. They want to play Dark Souls, like Skyrim or any other real time RPG.

Also Ninja Gaiden, from the little I played of the demo's, the level design doesn't work the same as Dark Souls. In that game the levels were fairly straight forward, what made it hard was the amount of enemies and the damage they do aside from being tough in general. Dark Souls levels are difficulty because of the layout that accomidates the enemies, not just the enemies themselves.

 

[Gormech]

Jim, I think that you have missed the point as far as the whole Easy-mode in Dark Souls has gone. The game's selling point was that it was hard. By adding an easy mode, that makes in many player's minds that the game is only as hard as 'you' make it. That's why a lot of games with optional difficulty don't get the same reputation and fan loyalty. Think of it like this if you will: Call of Duty, a game based around shooting things. The idea is to use cover, point gun, and kill enemy#53594. Now think that if that seemed too hard because people didn't want to take the time to learn when they could and could not peek out of cover to win, the developers opted out and just put in a godmode option above 'casual' difficulty, letting players walk through the campaign and just be the living bullet sponge from hell with no penalty aside from a number that pops up at the end saying how many times they would've died. They might as well have been watching a movie. Same goes for the recent Final Fantasy lines. They're not mad because the game's getting easier for some. They're mad because a game with a built up reputation around being something to be earned (the point is to not die) has been challenged with those in charge possibly making a decision that would turn it into another random hack and slash game to be forgotten on shelves a month after release like so many others.

 

[leviadragon99]

Injects a carrot, has the plunger allready down, seems legit.

Anyway, I'll probably have a few people yelling filty casual at me for this but I wouldn't mind an easy mode for Dark Souls m'self, I've never been keen on masochistic difficulty levels and I can admit that I'm not the most technically skilled gamer out there, never got the hang of thumbsticks due to near-exclusively playing on PC, tend to play on normal difficulty because I'm more interested in the story than dying a lot, the primary descriptor for the dark/demon souls franshise being "it's hard" put me off a game that otherwise had some very cool grim and gothic visual design.

Oh, and if anyone still insists on thinking of me as a casual, I have no interest in IOS games (nothing against them, just don't have any use for them) don't set foot on Facebook anyway so Farmville is right out and my favorite gave dev is Bioware, with Bethesda probably coming in second.

 

[sXeth]

Dark Souls doesn't need an easy mode so much as it needs a camera that doesn't wobble all over like whoevers holding it just stumbled drunk off a rollercoaster.

My other main issues with the game are thats ugly monochrome (yes, the areas vary about, but its always monochrome within whichever area), NPCs look horrid and manage to outdo Skyrim for limited character and dialogue. And its not so much difficulty as a bombardment of slow bland repetitive gameplay (difficulty typically occurs when you get impatient of this) as you just stay out of range of the boss, wait for it to do its most telegraphed attack, hit it once/twice, and go back to waiting.

 

[Korten12]

Dark Souls is a heaps hard game what are you talking about!

Why are you comparing the level design to Ninja Gaiden to Dark Souls, please don't twist my words.

Then you shouldn't have compared it. You stated that they were able to make Ninja Gaiden have an easy mode and still have the same level design. I responded back with saying how it may work with Ninja Gaiden, because of it's level design but not Dark Souls because it's levels aren't designed the same.

Never once did I put words in your mouth. Please read again.

Also no, Dark Souls is difficult, but not hard. It get's the impression of being hard because people want to play it like other action RPGs and not like Dark Souls. If you go slow, really take your time, it's not as hard as it makes it out to be. There is short cuts you can find, tactics to defeating the boss, and easy way to get around traps which just require just a bit of thinking.

People apparently no longer want this despite just months ago striving how to many games were being dumbed down and now are asking for a hard game to be dumbed down. It's ironic that the gaming community has flipped flopped on the matter.

 

[VyceVictus]

Gamers should have to work for it - it's kind of central to gaming. It's what stimulates the endorphine rush and makes the rewards sweeter. If you aren't looking for that, maybe gaming isn't for you and you should find another hobby (movies perhaps?)

A game isnt work. Its a game. Old games were hard to pad out the length and steal your quarters.

 

[Vault101]

Far Cry 3 was ridiculously easy at Hard, because it was catered towards the casuals.

farcry isnt for casuals...my mum or sister would not play farcry 3 on their PC's or Wii, by your logic majority games are for those mythical casuals who own consoles

but then we are getting into no true scotsmen terriroty

 

[VyceVictus]

Gamers should have to work for it - it's kind of central to gaming. It's what stimulates the endorphine rush and makes the rewards sweeter. If you aren't looking for that, maybe gaming isn't for you and you should find another hobby (movies perhaps?)

A game isnt work. Its a game. Old games were hard to pad out the length and steal your quarters.

I never had to pump quarters into my NES. Weird...

And by work, I mean challenge (I know you wanted to be cute by being literal).
Without challenge, there is no accomplishment.
Without accomplishment, you may as well watch a movie.

I was referring to arcade games with quarters(whos being a literal prick?)
Theres challenge, then there's flawed mechanics. Not saying Dark Souls is wrong. Its not a perfect game, what is, but there are certain aspects that could be better balanced yet still maintain the "integrity" of the difficulty.

 

[Faerillis]

Jim, please deal with Time-Locked Exclusives. They're illegal, but unchallenged, they fuck over large portions of the player-base, they are at least as bad an idea as Online Passes unlocking On-Disc Content.

 

[CoronaryThrombosis]

Also, who are these "less experienced" gamers we're catering to by adding an easy mode? Kids? Demon Souls was rated 17+ in the U.S. The argument that adults need an easy mode so that Dark Souls is more accessible is bunk. Most adults grew up playing NES games which were brutally hard. Demon Souls' difficulty was nothing compared to Ghouls and Ghosts.

 

[Kekkonen1]

I think Zelda-games are unfortunately the perfect example of dumbing down without becoming inclusive. They just become easier and easier, now I dont mind that but PLEASE give us hardcore zelda-fans some challenge and STOP holding our hands every time. If I've played every Zelda-game ever made I do NOT need to be told what kind of rupees I pick up in every god damn game! This is 2012, implement some difficulty selections and optional hints!!