Jimquisition: Dumbing Down for the Filthy Casuals

[Rooster Cogburn]

The Dark Souls community was very helpful to me when I first started and didn't know proper build planning from my elbow. Forums full of helpful people giving me hints, tips, and strategies for making my life in that bleak place better. Even for the people who don't want to take the time to seek out that portion of the community I think that From Software made a brilliant decision to reward players for helping out their fellow player and promoting "Jolly Cooperation". If anything, the Dark Souls community is the only reason I didn't walk away the first time I was frustrated with the game because I felt that it was unfair.

Wait... You asked a question about a game and you weren't flamed for it?

What madness have I stumbled into?

The most maligned and misunderstood community in the history of video games.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

I think this thread is over and done with folks considering we have a nice little select few people in this thread who shoot down any argument for an easy mode because they feel so damn threatened it's not even funny.

Seriously give these guy's rights to publish their book of arguments and let them have a radio show so they can preach more of how ignorant we apparently are and how underserving we are to have an optional mode in place.

That and we now know from the select few that it would take forever to create an optional mode because this game is apparently so fucking unique that we should all give the fuck up on everything else and praise it while shitting on those that don't and those that would like an easy mode.

For the select view you know who you are and I don't give two shits about how adding an easy mode will destroy your game because quite frankly it does come off as elitist no matter what argument you pull out of your ass it will still come off as one because of pulling the "you just don't understand card" followed by "well it's just not the game for you", seriously just learn to accept that other people want an optional mode of difficulty rather than feeling super threatened and desiring to shoot down any argument they have because in the end it does make you look fucking childish.

If the hard mode is it's main selling point why don't you just jog on and go play some hardcore mode tetris to take your fanboy rage off of things because there should be more to a game other than "balls hard mode".

if you desire to quote me in an attempt to call my childish,stupid,ignorant you'll get fucking nowhere I will tell you this right now because it's going to be fruitless and will accomplish nothing.

For those that don't want an "easy" mode placed into the game why not get off your whiny little asses and go straight to the studio and tell them and make sure your thoughts are expressed in such a way that it does happen and then come back and brag about how you told them to do something you wanted them to do against other peoples wishes.

 

[girzwald]

They are able to make the game the way it is precisely because they only have the one mode to consider. Go ahead, tell me that adding a fully featured flight sim mode to Halo 5 won't drain resources and distract from the design focus.

Thats not even close to being the same thing. And the fact that you have to go so far out on a limb in an attempt to make a point is very telling.

No they weren't. Stop spreading misinformation.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-04-dark-souls-director-considering-adding-optional-easy-mode

You are the one spreading misinformation.

Tell me again how it's us who are the offensive, insulting, elitist douche bags who have to boss everyone around.

Ok. You are. I mean, someone says. "there should be an easy mode". And we get "stop dumbing down games" "its easy, you just suck". are plenty more gems.

I'd bet hard money you were a complete ass to Dark Souls fans and now you're blaming them for not getting off on the wrong foot. It's confirmation bias. You're a dick to us and then you act like we're the ones who are insulting and unreasonable even though it's overwhelmingly the opposite.

Your prejudice against us is blinding you to the realities of the situation.

Ya, I was a complete jerk to people I didn't even know and never met before. No, sorry. Dark Souls fans have the reputation to be complete douche bags and its well earned IMO. Everyone who doesn't think dark souls is easy is bad and should feel bad is pretty much the attitude.

 

[girzwald]

Except people who say an easy mode should be available for dark souls aren't saying you should play THEIR way, you are saying they have to play YOUR way.

If you want to play Halo, you have to play an FPS. It totally blows my fucking mind how people are twisting and warping something like that into a perceived imposition.

Super hard action adventure role playing game is not a genre. Sorry.

 

[VyceVictus]

I am starting to think that they feel like they would be left out. That they can't handle having that one game they can't play.

You guys cant seem to handle not having a game only you can play

 

[BioRex]

Dark souls is easy if you LEARN how to play it......

You =/= everyone else.

Whats easy for you =/= easy for everyone else.

So should we make a easier version of chess because I'm really bad at it? Should those those sim games add platforming because I don't find its main mechanic engaging? Should Starcraft auto-create my units since I don't know what I should build when? Should soccer fields be shorter since I can't run worth a damn? Should tetris include markers telling you where to put the blocks because my planning ahead skills suck? Should large novels come with a cliff-notes version because I lack patience? I could do this all day, why is it so absurd that if one wants to take part and enjoy something they learn the basic skills needed to understand that thing? It would be rather rude of me to go to some people playing magic and demand we play by my house rules just because I owned a deck.

You already play a dumber version of chess. Unless you're playing against grandmasters, you're playing an easier version of the game. By your own logic, you have no right to play chess, as your "casual gaming" cheapens and invalidates the true chess played by masters. Logic which is faulty. Someone enjoying an easier version of something does not cheapen your own enjoyment.

Soccer fields are made shorter for children. This does not invalidate professional soccer players. Large novels are made with cliffnotes. People who want the challenge and the full experience read the book instead. And people play Magic with stupid casual house rules. Tournament players could care less though, as those houserules have no effect on them.

Other games do just fine with a difficulty setting, and still maintain the challenge. Look at Mount and Blade. Heck, most people even rate the game to be impossible without turning down the difficulty.

Answer me this. How does another person playing an easier version of a game invalidate your own enjoyment? Do you enjoy the game because its hard, or because you can brag online about how you beat that super-hard game? Personally, I could care less how many difficulty settings a game has. I enjoy Dark Souls at its current difficulty, and I certainly wouldn't choose an easy mode, as I feel that I lose the purpose of the game. But for me, the difficulty is part of the fun. For another person, it may not be. For another person, if they want it easier, I could frankly care less.

Well duh my point was a bit silly, however the main point I was making is that just because I have trouble with something does not mean the creator of that thing has to accomodate to me. The chess example would be making it less diverse, or checkers lol. The soccer example still holds because I am an adult so I should be expected to play by adult rules and standards.
It's not about invalidating my enjoyment, I enjoy the games difficulty fine, and its not about rubbing in peoples faces I just like the challenge. My issue is that if one made it easier then that person will not have the sense of accomplishment that comes from beating a tough challenge, which was the point of these games. Also as stated it would take time and money away from the next game and frankly not work without a large overhaul.

 

[Mortrialus]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-04-dark-souls-director-considering-adding-optional-easy-mode

You are the one spreading misinformation.

That was a mistranslation. You are still the one spreading misinformation. This is the real quote.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/09/06/dark-souls-developer-says-easy-mode-comments-were-a-translation-error/

?This fact is really sad to me and I am thinking about how to make everyone complete the game while maintaining the current difficulty and carefully send all gamers the messages behind it.?

 

[VyceVictus]

That's all it is Korten they wana be able to say i like it too. I have no idea why they fail to understand that the difficulty is what makes the game worth playing with out it it would be utter tripe mediocre rpg with no story or reward. But then they could get 1000 gamer score so by todays gamers standards that would be awesome.

This is what sterling meant when he said "And frankly, it's pretty insulting to Dark Souls if you think ALL it has to offer the world is difficulty."

 

[Korten12]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-04-dark-souls-director-considering-adding-optional-easy-mode

You are the one spreading misinformation.

No you're.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/09/06/dark-souls-developer-says-easy-mode-comments-were-a-translation-error/
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/367155/dark-souls-easy-mode-comments-were-mistranslation-says-namco/
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/09/07/dark-souls-easy-mode-comments-were-mistranslated

 

[sonofliber]

I think this thread is over and done with folks considering we have a nice little select few people in this thread who shoot down any argument for an easy mode because they feel so damn threatened it's not even funny.

Seriously give these guy's rights to publish their book of arguments and let them have a radio show so they can preach more of how ignorant we apparently are and how underserving we are to have an optional mode in place.

That and we now know from the select few that it would take forever to create an optional mode because this game is apparently so fucking unique that we should all give the fuck up on everything else and praise it while shitting on those that don't and those that would like an easy mode.

For the select view you know who you are and I don't give two shits about how adding an easy mode will destroy your game because quite frankly it does come off as elitist no matter what argument you pull out of your ass it will still come off as one because of pulling the "you just don't understand card" followed by "well it's just not the game for you", seriously just learn to accept that other people want an optional mode of difficulty rather than feeling super threatened and desiring to shoot down any argument they have because in the end it does make you look fucking childish.

If the hard mode is it's main selling point why don't you just jog on and go play some hardcore mode tetris to take your fanboy rage off of things because there should be more to a game other than "balls hard mode".

if you desire to quote me in an attempt to call my childish,stupid,ignorant you'll get fucking nowhere I will tell you this right now because it's going to be fruitless and will accomplish nothing.

For those that don't want an "easy" mode placed into the game why not get off your whiny little asses and go straight to the studio and tell them and make sure your thoughts are expressed in such a way that it does happen and then come back and brag about how you told them to do something you wanted them to do against other peoples wishes.

actaully i like that a few of them, call this game crap and that they only play it because its hard

 

[BioRex]

If the hard mode is it's main selling point why don't you just jog on and go play some hardcore mode tetris to take your fanboy rage off of things because there should be more to a game other than "balls hard mode".

Edit, derp wrong button.
That same argument could be used on the other side. Go play some easy mode "insert game of your choice" instead of playing dark souls.

 

[BioRex]

actaully i like that a few of them, call this game crap and that they only play it because its hard

It's more the case that the narrative structure lends itself to difficulty. I mean you are an undead little guy/girl in a land full of danger and monsters, it would be odd if you didn't die.

 

[Prosis]

Well duh my point was a bit silly, however the main point I was making is that just because I have trouble with something does not mean the creator of that thing has to accomodate to me. The chess example would be making it less diverse, or checkers lol. The soccer example still holds because I am an adult so I should be expected to play by adult rules and standards.
It's not about invalidating my enjoyment, I enjoy the games difficulty fine, and its not about rubbing in peoples faces I just like the challenge. My issue is that if one made it easier then that person will not have the sense of accomplishment that comes from beating a tough challenge, which was the point of these games. Also as stated it would take time and money away from the next game and frankly not work without a large overhaul.

Not really. Do you play soccer on a professional length field, against soccer pros? If not, then you are not a true soccer player. You shouldn't be allowed to play soccer, as you won't get the feeling of accomplishment that a world soccer champion gets with the challenge of a professional game. Or rather, you shouldn't be able to finish a game of soccer if you can't compete at the international level.

It wouldn't take time or money away from production either. A mere number adjustment would make the game easier. 75% health on enemies and 75% damage from enemies. It's quick, its cheap, its not a true "easy mode", but it makes the game a bit easier for those who want it easier. Or even go down to 50%. Sure, there'd still be people who couldn't beat the game. But it'd be a bit easier for those who aren't quite up to the Dark Souls challenge.

Would they enjoy it more if they actually beat the game on its original difficulty? Yeah, probably. Would you enjoy soccer more if you beat a professional team? Yeah, probably. But some people just want to kick the ball around. And some people just want to play a video game for the grim setting and dark story.

 

[VyceVictus]

That's all it is Korten they wana be able to say i like it too. I have no idea why they fail to understand that the difficulty is what makes the game worth playing with out it it would be utter tripe mediocre rpg with no story or reward. But then they could get 1000 gamer score so by todays gamers standards that would be awesome.

This is what sterling meant when he said "And frankly, it's pretty insulting to Dark Souls if you think ALL it has to offer the world is difficulty."

yea it has the feeling of achievement when you batter a boss or when you finally upgrade that +15 weapon, the adrenaline rush when you invade and batter a guy and his two buddies. This game on easy would lack everything that makes it awesome. Just like me asking snoop dog to start singing ballads because i don't like rap......

Lush worlds, mysterious story, atmosphere, great combat, impressive massive bosses.
The game has a lot more to offer than just obstacles to get your hardcore gamer junkie rocks off.

 

[BioRex]

Well duh my point was a bit silly, however the main point I was making is that just because I have trouble with something does not mean the creator of that thing has to accomodate to me. The chess example would be making it less diverse, or checkers lol. The soccer example still holds because I am an adult so I should be expected to play by adult rules and standards.
It's not about invalidating my enjoyment, I enjoy the games difficulty fine, and its not about rubbing in peoples faces I just like the challenge. My issue is that if one made it easier then that person will not have the sense of accomplishment that comes from beating a tough challenge, which was the point of these games. Also as stated it would take time and money away from the next game and frankly not work without a large overhaul.

Not really. Do you play soccer on a professional length field, against soccer pros? If not, then you are not a true soccer player. You shouldn't be allowed to play soccer, as you won't get the feeling of accomplishment that a world soccer champion gets with the challenge of a professional game.

It wouldn't take time or money away from production either. A mere number adjustment would make the game easier. 75% health on enemies and 75% damage from enemies. It's quick, its cheap, its not a true "easy mode", but it makes the game a bit easier for those who want it easier. Or even go down to 50%. Sure, there'd still be people who couldn't beat the game. But it'd be a bit easier for those who aren't quite up to the Dark Souls challenge.

Would they enjoy it more if they actually beat the game on its original difficulty? Yeah, probably. Would you enjoy soccer more if you beat a professional team? Yeah, probably. But some people just want to kick the ball around. And some people just want to play a video game for the grim setting and dark story.

They could play darksiders or one of the many dark grim games thats gets made.
If we continue the soccer analogy this is someone who has access to a free field and a pro field. They can play in a relaxed fashion at the free field and if they go to the pro field they can play but its a lot harder.
However somebody decides to go the pro field and expects the rules be accommodated to him/her, when told that they can just go to the free field/learn to play better that person calls the pro players elitist.