People should learn than "making something easier =/= adding an easy mode in addition to the already harder one"
Jimquisition: Dumbing Down for the Filthy Casuals
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
My apologies, I believe you've misunderstood me, I was referring to the option of difficulty, only being available at the beginning of a campaign, and then not being able to change that difficulty for that particular playthrough, anymore.immortalfrieza said:
Because gaming doesnt belong to any one person, it's everyone's. I dont "have" anything. And i dont have to be prisoner to your definition of a game being "things you have to play and beat on your own ability to experience the content" Because cheat codes are as old as gaming itself. I still suck at madden or puzzles, but those games have a myriad of ways (including but not limited to "easy modes") to be accesible but still remain challenging for the hardest of hardcore. It aint that serious. Its Games. It's playtime. Does having that one game realy mean that much to you? Gaming is not a niche anymore.Rooster Cogburn said:
I used to dislike your videos Jim. In the beginning.
But now, Jim- and for some time actually. Jim. I like you Jim.
I don't even know what changed. You're insidious.
...
But I don't like casuals. Their special needs turned Supcom and Supcom FA into Supcom 2: sorry the economy in our first game was too hard for you thicko, edition. And I got burned by it. Yes, I'm still grudging over that one thing, and always will be.
I don't mind that there are gamers who've got the mental agility and cursor precision of your carrot, Jim. I don't want to exclude them from gaming. I just wish there weren't quite so many of them. Time was that these people didn't even own computers, and my sort were the only ones purchasing videogames. Now there are hordes of them, and the games I want to see are either kickstarters at the mercy of the crowd (okay, I guess the crowd has been pretty good so far...) or just remastered classics (BGEE).
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But now, Jim- and for some time actually. Jim. I like you Jim.
I don't even know what changed. You're insidious.
...
But I don't like casuals. Their special needs turned Supcom and Supcom FA into Supcom 2: sorry the economy in our first game was too hard for you thicko, edition. And I got burned by it. Yes, I'm still grudging over that one thing, and always will be.
(RANT . Unrelated to casuals, GPG what the fuck? You bring Square Enix in and DON'T set them to work on the units? You give them the damned story instead?! Wow, and you pull your own unit designs from shitty fan packs made for Supcom 1. Cybrannosaurus Rex, are you serious?! I'm glad you no longer develop games. You deserved to sink with all hands for that alone- never mind how you shat on lovers of FA in a futile effort to win back all the people who DIDN'T stick around. Please never return. /RANT)
I don't mind that there are gamers who've got the mental agility and cursor precision of your carrot, Jim. I don't want to exclude them from gaming. I just wish there weren't quite so many of them. Time was that these people didn't even own computers, and my sort were the only ones purchasing videogames. Now there are hordes of them, and the games I want to see are either kickstarters at the mercy of the crowd (okay, I guess the crowd has been pretty good so far...) or just remastered classics (BGEE).
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NO,it doesnt cost YOU anything. Your psychological hangup is your problem, not theirs and not the games.Rooster Cogburn said:
No, one is a true testament to human conditioning and endurance, one is a testament to human tenacity and ability to adapt. However, for both, it takes effort, it is something you earn. Saying video games are just "fucking games" is like saying a Triathlon is just a "fucking sport". Beating a game is like winning a Triathlon or even just crossing the finish line, neither is given to you on a silver platter, but the satisfaction of success IS THE POINT and is worthwhile, even if in neither case are you given a medal or recieve recognition for it, they're nice things to have, but not the point.VyceVictus said:
No, they do not. You do not buy a game and suddenly have the right to have all the content with little to no effort, you have the right to try to access that content, no more, no less. You are there to satisfy the game by beating it's challenge, or you do not have the right to that stimulus. If Pong Since I'm not going to repeat my Triathlon analogy again, since you obviously aren't listening to it, I'm going with chess. Saying you have the right to access all content in a game or have an easy mode added to it because you don't want to try as hard just because you bought the game is like playing chess and saying that you deserve to beat any other player {in this analogy the other player being the game's challenge itself) or have an unfair advantage over the other player like having your pawns replaced by queens just because you are the one who bought the chessboard.VyceVictus said:
A movie marathon doesn't have any further requirement to see all those movies than to buy those movies, video games do not. That applies whether it's the easiest video game that has ever been made and ever will be or the hardest. If that's what you want, then go buy a game, go on Youtube or something and watch a let's play or walkthrough of that game or find some mod online or make one yourself to make the game super easy if you want it easier if you don't care to earn that game's content like you should be doing.
To go with your Pong argument, if you got points for just turning Pong on or if the game didn't make all that much effort to stop you from winning those points yourself, and if you had little to no chance of losing to the computer, sure you get the stimulus but there's no point in playing Pong at all if little to nothing is there to stop you from getting those points.
well, since you've made the exclusion of an option essential to your experience, sure, I mean how could it not. You can also go online and find solutions, help, and tactics. This option is constantly available to you at any given time, yet you do not consider this when you estimate the danger of an opponent in the game, is there a particular reason for this?Rooster Cogburn said:
The game doesn't own you, you manipulate it. The game doesnt have any "rights" over you. This is a very disturbing thought process I've noticed. You dont have to get your ass handed to you by a grand master chess player to learn how to play, get better at, and enjoy chess when you are playing for the first time. There are a multitude of ways to get into it beyond a simple "easy" mode. I truly dont think this is an either or. Back to the original point, adding some type of device to enhance the accessibility of Dark Souls is NOT going to ruin the original core of the game. It would always be there for whoever wanted it.immortalfrieza said:
So by having one game that is for me and not for easy mode only players, I am taking GAMING ITSELF away from them? Is that what you are saying?VyceVictus said:
Meanwhile, I have no games to play and they want to take my very last one. Fuck My Life.
[HEADING=1]YES.[/HEADING]
That statement makes NO SENSE in context. You walked into the middle of something that fit your confirmation bias on a superficial level and used it as an excuse to role out the tired elitist nonsense straw man we all love so much without even understanding what the fuck is actually being discussed.VyceVictus said:
Your closed-minded outlook, prejudice and ignorance are YOUR problems.
You just can't seem to get the point I'm trying to make here, or you are deliberately ignoring it. I've said it before and I'll say t again, you earn the content that a video game has to offer, shelling out some cash doesn't mean you've earned the game's content, you've earned the right to work to see that content. Yes, you don't have to get your ass handed to you by the grand master chess player to learn how to play and get better at chess, that's a strawman argument. However, you DO have to put in the effort to learn how to play chess and when you play for the first time you have to put in the effort to actually beat your opponent, just like you have to put in the effort learn how to beat a video game and then actually beat it.VyceVictus said:
Buying a book on how to play chess doesn't instantly absorb the information into your brain, buying a trainer to help you learn to play chess doesn't mean that whoever it is is obligated to make you a master chess player with little to no effort on your part, nor do you have the right to set up your first chess game against someone, knock the pieces off the board and say "I win!" and have them admit defeat, or lose against them over and over again and tell them to take it easier on you just because you bought the chessboard, and they wouldn't be obligated to do so. Similarly, you don't have the right to have the game make things easier or sit back and play the game for you just because you've paid for the game, you have to EARN the right to see everything, you have to EARN the right to get to the end.
I read your entire discussion, not that hard to "jump into it".Rooster Cogburn said:
Like DayDark already replied to you, other assets exist (internet, game manuals) that are still "options" out there; do they detract from your paralyzing fear of the indomitable dragon anymore than an optional ingame cue/guide would that you dont even have to use. That's what doesn't make any sense.
Mortamus said:
Pastime or not merely buying a game doesn't mean that you are promised to get the experience it has the potential to provide you with. In order for you to get to experience whatever it is that you have bought has to offer you first have to be willing to play by the rules it has set out for you. In this sense you are very much there to satisfy its needs as well as it yours, since without doing so you won't be getting anything out of it. This might be as simple as keeping your eyes open to see something, but it might as well not be.VyceVictus said:
I know the following comparison is a bit simplistic, but would you expect a novel to grant you the ability to read it after doing nothing more than buying it? There are varying prerequisites for every piece entertainment and some match your current skills (or level interest) and some do not. The great thing is that you can often choose to improve your skills to match these prerequisites. In no way do I intend to insult anyone by saying any of this, but I simply think that investigating what exatcly you are considering to buy and what it can require from you is a reasonable thing to do before buying anything. It is also good to consider that some pieces of entertainment are designed to be more demanding than others.
Again there seems to be something in the inherent interactivity of games that makes people think that the experience at least should somehow be easily accessible for everyone without any conceivable exceptions.
There seem to be people discussing both of these eventualities seperately and even in junction. Adding an easy mode to Dark Souls would be counterproductive and there is no need to make Dark Souls easier in any other ways either.SidheKnight said:
It seems there are still many that do not know of this yet so let me emphasize! There are already numerous thoughtful ways present in Dark Souls that can make it easier for you. And this is achieved without compromising any of its goals. It's just that you first have to put a little effort into finding out exactly how, but that really isn't too difficult at all. Clever utilisation of NPC phantoms, equipment and upgrades gets you a long way. Don't let the the series' reputation dishearten you.
No, all those aides and assets wont automatically make you a champion, but you have no right to begrudge them for using those assets earnestly to learn the game and challenge you on your level. Just because they used assistance doesnt diminish your own achievements in any way. And going back to your silly triathalon analogy, is someone who who got the assistance of trainers and coaches any less entitled to compete than someone who trained on his own? Just admit it, this is a hardcore gamer pride issue. A guy playing with an assist wont think you''re any less hardcore or the game is inherently any less of a challenge, otherwise they wouldnt have the assist in the first place.immortalfrieza said:
You ever played Matrix: Path Of Neo? That's a much better way to do difficulty, in case you haven't, I'll tell you. Though they didn't lock it in and still allowed you to choose the difficulty in the end, they had you fight against a gauntlet of harder and harder enemies at the start of the game and how well you did determined how high the recommended difficulty for the entire game was. If they could do something like that for Souls games but also make it something subtle enough that the player wouldn't notice it was happening, such as gradually decreasing the damage the player takes and increasing the damage the player causes if the player dies often without letting them know it, I might be more receptive to an easy mode.Flunk said:
I payed for a $60 Single player semi-open RPG and did not appreciate having to go online to access potential assistance mechanics and felt the soul/back track mechanic as well as the Humanity aspect was flawed. Again, for me, this is not an issue of easy versus hardcore, this is a balance issue that is a valid critical detriment to an outstanding game.Korten12 said:
That said, I am confident that FROM Software could think of any number of addons/dlc's/patches tht could increase the accessibiliy of the game without making any fundamental changes to the core of the game itself. There is a lot more being offered here than just Self-aggrandizing by way of self-flagellation.
The MMORPG is one thing, but if they also offered an optional 5$ unlock or assist pack, that add-on wouldnt effect you one fucking iota, so why are you so worried about it.