Jimquisition: Dumbing Down for the Filthy Casuals

[VyceVictus]

No, all those aides and assets wont automatically make you a champion, but you have no right to begrudge them for using those assets earnestly to learn the game and challenge you on your level.

No I don't, but I do have the right to smack them over the head when they EXPECT those aides and assets to give them an instant win against me or make things easier for them when I did not have those aides and assets, just because they bought those aides and assets, not because it's impossible for them, but just because they didn't care enough to work as hard as I did.

Just because they used assistance doesnt diminish your own achievements in any way.

Yes it does, by letting others have that assistance and accomplish all the same things I did with far less effort when I got through the obstacles before that assistance was available it makes what I accomplished much less impressive and impact, in other words, yes, it does diminish my achievements.

And going back to your silly triathalon analogy, is someone who who got the assistance of trainers and coaches any less entitled to compete than someone who trained on his own?

Nope, because even if they got a trainer they still have to work just as hard to get good enough to participate and potentially win that Triathlon as I do, having a trainer and coach would still mean that they'd have to work just as hard for it as somebody that doesn't have that, it is a different but no less difficult path to the same end, not an easier path to the same end. You aren't asking for them to work as hard as I do to win, you are asking for the other guy to just be given a motorcycle when I'm way out in front and about a short ways away from the finish line while he's barely halfway across the track, just because the other guy isn't willing to work as hard as I do.

This isn't work, its a video game. Not competing for a job and something like affirmative action is in play. Your accomplishment IS the completion without the assistance. What they do has NO bearing on that. You succeeded on your own and no one can take that from you, but you have no right to take assists or help modes from them just to make you feel better. They will put in the same amount of time and effort just playing the game, because it is just that, not an exercise, a game.

Video games are work, they take effort, thus they are work! Why can't you understand that? You can't just walk into a store, buy a game, put it in your system and suddenly expect to get everything, just as you can't walk into a job, do nothing and then be paid! However, I no longer care to respond to you any further, because you aren't going to admit you are wrong anyway. Here's the facts, WE are right, YOU are wrong, and just because aren't willing to admit it and ignore every argument we've made despite it beating your own arguments by any reasonable metric by leaps and bounds doesn't make you right.

Fucking takes effort but that sure as shit aint work
"Here's the facts, WE are right, YOU are wrong"
Yeah, real fucking mature discussion you have going on here.

 

[VyceVictus]

I read your entire discussion, not that hard to "jump into it".
Like DayDark already replied to you, other assets exist (internet, game manuals) that are still "options" out there; do they detract from your paralyzing fear of the indomitable dragon anymore than an optional ingame cue/guide would that you dont even have to use. That's what doesn't make any sense.

Your ridiculing characterization of how I get entertainment from this game along with your insistence on defining what "gaming is" for everyone else exposes your shallow pretenses of inclusiveness for the sham that they are. You consistently presume to tell us how and why WE should be enjoying our games while ridiculing the way we do it. And then you have the gall to act like WE are the ones being unreasonable, hateful, exclusionary, and unnecessarily insulting when there is absolutely no real reason that everyone can't have the games that they enjoy. Unbelievable.

Because YOU are telling ME that gaming is a challenge that has to be earned. No it doesnt. My point has always been that if there exists options to play differently from that, it wont ever change YOUR play or what you think gaming is to you.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

-snippety snip-

So apparently I'm "lowest common denominator"?.

Well aren't you a shining gem of sheer wisdom and brilliance...

You also forgot the part where you also threw in your own straw man right there and also proved you're hypocritical so good job on that one.

Yeah and the same can be said about your lot of not giving a damn over so please do cry me a river and come back with another script of witty remarks and parroted links.

 

[Anthicus]

This is a very dissapointing episode... Jim wasted all the episode arguing against a strawman.

The real reason why a huge part of the "Souls community" fears an easy mode is because most of the game mechanics work because of the difficulty. You really need to play the game and analyse it from a development point of view to apreciate the synergy this game has.

Is silly to think that the "Souls community" doesn't want more people to play the game, specially because it was formed from sharing knowledge about the game secrets.

 

[GrimHeaper]

I don't have time for arguments this week, unfortunately, but let me just address some things briefly before flying off into the night. Once I've said this, I'm done on the topic for now, though I may need to do a new video after the holidays for those who spectacularly missed the point of the video:

The difference between an optional easy mode and the homogenization of videogames is as simple as the difference between Ninja Gaiden Black's "Ninja Dog" mode and Ninja Gaiden 3. One game had an optional extra mode for people who didn't want brutal challenge, and one tore the default experience apart.

Easy modes aren't a new concept, people. Capcom had some of the most hardcore action games around, and they actually offered you an easier mode if you had your ass kicked one too many times. Nobody complained about that. Nobody believes the core Devil May Cry 3 experience was ravaged by multiple difficulties. And frankly, it's pretty insulting to Dark Souls if you think ALL it has to offer the world is difficulty.

As for my attitude in this video ... uh ... welcome to the Jimquisition? Apparently it's okay for me to have this attitude when it's people you don't agree with -- not so now. Should I reshoot the video in a non-condescending "easy mode" format for you?

I'd like to see that video. Normal mode is far to hard for me

 

[Korten12]

I read your entire discussion, not that hard to "jump into it".
Like DayDark already replied to you, other assets exist (internet, game manuals) that are still "options" out there; do they detract from your paralyzing fear of the indomitable dragon anymore than an optional ingame cue/guide would that you dont even have to use. That's what doesn't make any sense.

Your ridiculing characterization of how I get entertainment from this game along with your insistence on defining what "gaming is" for everyone else exposes your shallow pretenses of inclusiveness for the sham that they are. You consistently presume to tell us how and why WE should be enjoying our games while ridiculing the way we do it. And then you have the gall to act like WE are the ones being unreasonable, hateful, exclusionary, and unnecessarily insulting when there is absolutely no real reason that everyone can't have the games that they enjoy. Unbelievable.

Because YOU are telling ME that gaming is a challenge that has to be earned. No it doesnt.

Well you know what!? THIS GAME IS JUST THAT. What do you not fucking understand? Dark Souls challenge comes from it's story, atmosphere, and style. It's a dark depressing world and your just another individual trying to run through it. By making it easy you're ruining the game's story, atmosphere, and style by going against it. Like a poster earlier said, Dark Souls game play matches it's story. An Easy mode would go against the story.

END OF.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Fucking takes effort but that sure as shit aint work
"Here's the facts, WE are right, YOU are wrong"
Yeah, real fucking mature discussion you have going on here.

You did not engage the argument presented in the post you quoted. That is a pretty consistent habit for you in this thread at least and something Dark Souls fans aren't really strangers too.

Please stop responding to VyceVictus. He won't discuss the arguments or even identify them, there is nothing more for you to do here.

 

[immortalfrieza]

I read your entire discussion, not that hard to "jump into it".
Like DayDark already replied to you, other assets exist (internet, game manuals) that are still "options" out there; do they detract from your paralyzing fear of the indomitable dragon anymore than an optional ingame cue/guide would that you dont even have to use. That's what doesn't make any sense.

Your ridiculing characterization of how I get entertainment from this game along with your insistence on defining what "gaming is" for everyone else exposes your shallow pretenses of inclusiveness for the sham that they are. You consistently presume to tell us how and why WE should be enjoying our games while ridiculing the way we do it. And then you have the gall to act like WE are the ones being unreasonable, hateful, exclusionary, and unnecessarily insulting when there is absolutely no real reason that everyone can't have the games that they enjoy. Unbelievable.

I've stopped responding to him because of how he couldn't be more obviously wrong and yet keeps insisting that he is right. It's kind of like having a parent that constantly tries to get his 5 year old to do things so obviously stupid that even the 5 year old can see how ridiculous it is and then when the 5 year old complains he says something like "you'll do it because I'm your father and I said so!" I don't think you are going to get through to him either Rooster.

 

[VyceVictus]

so it's a flawed game you don't like but would like to ruin for those who do enjoy it just so you can enjoy it instead sounds fair...............

Your game doesnt have to be ruin. As I said before, this doesnt have to be just easy mode all or nothing fix. There are any number of ways to modify the balance without defeating the core mechanics that you enjoy. It's NOT going to ruin your game.

How do you make the feeling of achievement when there is no hurdle to clear? why do you want to play a game you don't like? or understand? why don't you play with a different game that you do like? If you can tell me how to keep the comunity in the same shape keep the same sense of achievement tension dread and elation on easy then i would shut up but you can't because the difficulty is the glue that binds this game.
You don't like it so why do you want to play it?

I mentioned earlier the Idea of the In game avatar help. As I also mentioned before, the balance mechanics are just one aspect that I dont like in the face of other aspects that are great (the atmosphere, combat, unique mythos I already mentioned.) Like has been recurring theme in this whole discussion, this doesnt have to be an all or nothing baby with the bath water situation. Like Sterling mentioned earlier, to say that the difficulty is the ONLY thing to play this game for is reductive and insulting to everything else the game has to offer.

 

[VyceVictus]

Fucking takes effort but that sure as shit aint work
"Here's the facts, WE are right, YOU are wrong"
Yeah, real fucking mature discussion you have going on here.

You did not engage the argument presented in the post you quoted. That is a pretty consistent habit for you in this thread at least and something Dark Souls fans aren't really strangers too.

Please stop responding to VyceVictus. He won't discuss the arguments or even identify them, there is nothing more for you to do here.

Whats your argument? Added assist will ruin the challenge?
I explained why i believe thats not the case.

 

[BioRex]

I read your entire discussion, not that hard to "jump into it".
Like DayDark already replied to you, other assets exist (internet, game manuals) that are still "options" out there; do they detract from your paralyzing fear of the indomitable dragon anymore than an optional ingame cue/guide would that you dont even have to use. That's what doesn't make any sense.

Your ridiculing characterization of how I get entertainment from this game along with your insistence on defining what "gaming is" for everyone else exposes your shallow pretenses of inclusiveness for the sham that they are. You consistently presume to tell us how and why WE should be enjoying our games while ridiculing the way we do it. And then you have the gall to act like WE are the ones being unreasonable, hateful, exclusionary, and unnecessarily insulting when there is absolutely no real reason that everyone can't have the games that they enjoy. Unbelievable.

Because YOU are telling ME that gaming is a challenge that has to be earned. No it doesnt. My point has always been that if there exists options to play differently from that, it wont ever change YOUR play or what you think gaming is to you.

Ok let me provide an example to help you understand. You bought a magic kit that you can learn card tricks from, one would expect you would have to practice this form of entertainment to be any good at it yes? About you buy a rubix cube or any other puzzle for that matter, it's for entertainment but it's also a challenge. If I just looked up the answer to the cube that wouldn't be anything interesting. Why are games so different, they are a puzzle that you derive entertainment from by interacting with them in various ways.

 

[VyceVictus]

I read your entire discussion, not that hard to "jump into it".
Like DayDark already replied to you, other assets exist (internet, game manuals) that are still "options" out there; do they detract from your paralyzing fear of the indomitable dragon anymore than an optional ingame cue/guide would that you dont even have to use. That's what doesn't make any sense.

Your ridiculing characterization of how I get entertainment from this game along with your insistence on defining what "gaming is" for everyone else exposes your shallow pretenses of inclusiveness for the sham that they are. You consistently presume to tell us how and why WE should be enjoying our games while ridiculing the way we do it. And then you have the gall to act like WE are the ones being unreasonable, hateful, exclusionary, and unnecessarily insulting when there is absolutely no real reason that everyone can't have the games that they enjoy. Unbelievable.

Because YOU are telling ME that gaming is a challenge that has to be earned. No it doesnt.

Well you know what!? THIS GAME IS JUST THAT. What do you not fucking understand? Dark Souls challenge comes from it's story, atmosphere, and style. It's a dark depressing world and your just another individual trying to run through it. By making it easy you're ruining the game's story, atmosphere, and style by going against it. Like a poster earlier said, Dark Souls game play matches it's story. An Easy mode would go against the story.

END OF.

All this time I've been saying, It doesnt have to be just a de facto "easy mode". From could develop any number of addon mechanics that wouldn't detract from th core game. If they did it would not effect you in anyway whatsoever. That is my main point.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

-Snip-

The reason why is because I'm frankly really fed up with the constant superiority complex a lot of users on this forum seem to have and apologizing really doesn't seem to work well at all here either because it either ends up with another sarcastic remark or another argument.

But here's the thing, there are many games out there that fofer hard challenges besides DS and the massive image I'm getting from this thread (And I mean massive) is that this game is literally the only challenging game in the history of anything challenging to a video game and to me that just screams that every other game isn't and it comes as insulting because there are other games out there just as challenging as DS so having easy mode added (with enough time spent on development to make sure it doesn't "lose it's touch/fall apart")really shouldn't affect you because you will want to go for the hardest setting so you won't be touching easy mode in the first place and the only ones to choose that setting will be the one's who simply wish to try it out or start off using it before knocking the difficulty up a bit for their choosing.

think about it this way if this game didn't have it's easy mode and in turn every other game in the future was like DS then we'd get a major amount of people simply put off and fed up with playing the games they cannot beat or spend too much time to get thrashed because they only have hardcore mode and again that would be insulting if the hardcore loving people just turned around and say "Well maybe it's just not the game for you?/Get better or don't play it" type excuses rather than actually seeing how difficult it really is for them (walking them through the games can be valid forms of help but it's often better if they are able to choose multiple difficulty modes if they don't want to ask for assistance).

 

[BioRex]

-Snip-

The reason why is because I'm frankly really fed up with the constant superiority complex a lot of users on this forum seem to have and apologizing really doesn't seem to work well at all here either because it either ends up with another sarcastic remark or another argument.

But here's the thing, there are many games out there that fofer hard challenges besides DS and the massive image I'm getting from this thread (And I mean massive) is that this game is literally the only challenging game in the history of anything challenging to a video game and to me that just screams that every other game isn't and it comes as insulting because there are other games out there just as challenging as DS so having easy mode added (with enough time spent on development to make sure it doesn't "lose it's touch/fall apart")really shouldn't affect you because you will want to go for the hardest setting so you won't be touching easy mode in the first place and the only ones to choose that setting will be the one's who simply wish to try it out or start off using it before knocking the difficulty up a bit for their choosing.

think about it this way if this game didn't have it's easy mode and in turn every other game in the future was like DS then we'd get a major amount of people simply put off and fed up with playing the games they cannot beat or spend too much time to get thrashed because they only have hardcore mode and again that would be insulting if the hardcore loving people just turned around and say "Well maybe it's just not the game for you?/Get better or don't play it" type excuses rather than actually seeing how difficult it really is for them (walking them through the games can be valid forms of help but it's often better if they are able to choose multiple difficulty modes if they don't want to ask for assistance).

So what are some recent games that provide challenge? Do try and keep within the last few years. Also lol all games like dark souls, do you mean the 90's? The early years were games were brutal for better or worse?

 

[VyceVictus]

I read your entire discussion, not that hard to "jump into it".
Like DayDark already replied to you, other assets exist (internet, game manuals) that are still "options" out there; do they detract from your paralyzing fear of the indomitable dragon anymore than an optional ingame cue/guide would that you dont even have to use. That's what doesn't make any sense.

Your ridiculing characterization of how I get entertainment from this game along with your insistence on defining what "gaming is" for everyone else exposes your shallow pretenses of inclusiveness for the sham that they are. You consistently presume to tell us how and why WE should be enjoying our games while ridiculing the way we do it. And then you have the gall to act like WE are the ones being unreasonable, hateful, exclusionary, and unnecessarily insulting when there is absolutely no real reason that everyone can't have the games that they enjoy. Unbelievable.

Because YOU are telling ME that gaming is a challenge that has to be earned. No it doesnt. My point has always been that if there exists options to play differently from that, it wont ever change YOUR play or what you think gaming is to you.

Ok let me provide an example to help you understand. You bought a magic kit that you can learn card tricks from, one would expect you would have to practice this form of entertainment to be any good at it yes? About you buy a rubix cube or any other puzzle for that matter, it's for entertainment but it's also a challenge. If I just looked up the answer to the cube that wouldn't be anything interesting. Why are games so different, they are a puzzle that you derive entertainment from by interacting with them in various ways.

I think the term you used, "practice to be good", is whats key here. Yeah, in any game there's trial or error and memorization. But this game isn't JUST about that. It's not JUST about "being good at it" Although the difficulty is core concept of the game, there is so much more to experience in it. If From decided to make some type of ancillary assist DLC/patch or even add it as an extra option in the now confirmed sequel, players using that should have no bearing whatsoever on other hardcore players who want to experience it in its original form. Much has been said about wther or not this would effect multiplayer. The simple fact is that if it did, it wouldnt be a matter of "casuals ruining things" it would be a fundamental matter of bad game design.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Like a mole on the balls jimmy's still here and after so many months his still not a welcome sight. I'll never understand why he was brought on

I almost quit this site when he got here. Maybe I should have. :/