Jimquisition: Emotions, Polygons, and Ellen Page
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
I don't care how many polys the characters in next gen games have, or how sophisticated the motion capture software is that they use. If they can't get the damn cloth on the clothes to move like actual cloth, the characters are still going to look like awkward action figures dressed in those rubber clothes made for Polly Pockets.
The issue Cage has is twofold and neither hasn't been touched yet. The first is that it's not emotions he's talking about but expressions while the latter can convey the former, they are not interchangeable. If Cage would understand that he would be halfway there and his comments would be more accurate and less stupid sounding.
The second is the belief that the modern game industry as refined expressing emotions to the point where the only way to go is with higher fidelity. To that I say not only is it inaccurate but the modern gaming market has actually regressed in that concept, if at least in the big budget market if not in general. A game like Heavy Rain and Fahrenheit would simply be regarded as a forgettable flash in the pan 15-20 years ago because back then character expressions were a core part of the narrative in most top tier games. With the top tier games currently rarely showing very little face time in general and what is shown is largely neutral, all the higher fidelity would bring is more detail of just how the characters don't care about anything.
The characters need to have emotions before they can be expressed, and all that needs to happen before your try to refine it with higher fidelity.
The second is the belief that the modern game industry as refined expressing emotions to the point where the only way to go is with higher fidelity. To that I say not only is it inaccurate but the modern gaming market has actually regressed in that concept, if at least in the big budget market if not in general. A game like Heavy Rain and Fahrenheit would simply be regarded as a forgettable flash in the pan 15-20 years ago because back then character expressions were a core part of the narrative in most top tier games. With the top tier games currently rarely showing very little face time in general and what is shown is largely neutral, all the higher fidelity would bring is more detail of just how the characters don't care about anything.
The characters need to have emotions before they can be expressed, and all that needs to happen before your try to refine it with higher fidelity.
[sarcasm]
There's no possible way to connect to the character if the character has only 3000 polygons.
See? Not enough polygons. Nope. I don't feel anything.
[/sarcasm]
There's no possible way to connect to the character if the character has only 3000 polygons.
That really doesn't bother people as much as you'd imagine. Waking Dead has less gaming than Heavy Rain and Walking Dead was critically and publically acclaimed, while Heavy Rain's reaction ranged from "ewwwww" to "meh, it's okay."wackelpudding said:
Walking Dead just had more... dare I say EMOTION than any game David Cage has made so far?
well damn, can honestly say I aint really a fan of Jim's stuff, but that was beautiful.
so yeah, david cage needs to do one, the arrogant talentless tosspot.
so yeah, david cage needs to do one, the arrogant talentless tosspot.
hahahah, fun episode... that reminds me... what was done back in 1997...
oh yeah, that's right... this:
What is cage really making other than some pretty very expensive point in click adventure games? Just assume play this again (or any one of dozens of point n' clicks) than slog threw another Cage "emotion" fest.
The only thing this guy has proven is that he does very little with a lot...
If only this scene had more polygons!!! (Shakes fist at universe!) MoooRRRRRR PoLyGoNs!!!
oh yeah, that's right... this:
What is cage really making other than some pretty very expensive point in click adventure games? Just assume play this again (or any one of dozens of point n' clicks) than slog threw another Cage "emotion" fest.
The only thing this guy has proven is that he does very little with a lot...
If only this scene had more polygons!!! (Shakes fist at universe!) MoooRRRRRR PoLyGoNs!!!
Yeah, I get that it's a parody, but it's spread a little thin and it lacks the usual punch. He's certainly made a great parody, but as an episode of the Jimquisition it doesn't hold up to the normal standard. Well done, just not very funny.Legion said:
Funny how I cared for the little blocks from Thomas Was Alone more than for any of the Quantic Dream's characters.
Never understood why some people are so assured that perfect realism is the only way to go for video games. You can do so much stuff with animation, why would you want to just recreate our boring world instead?
Never understood why some people are so assured that perfect realism is the only way to go for video games. You can do so much stuff with animation, why would you want to just recreate our boring world instead?
I feel the same, although I did find the impression funny.zebon said:
I liked Indigo Prophecy, though it would have been nice if the entire third act hadn't been cut. And I imagine I'll play Heavy Rain when I acquire a PS3. I like Cage and think he often has good ideas but the implementation of them isn't always so hot.
As far as graphics are concerned, the level of detail in games now is just fine by me. I don't need, or even want photorealistic.
I never payed attention to Heavy Rain and that guy so I really lack the context for the video, but I think I can quite imagine what this guy said now. Was still funny even though I lacked the context, so this shows what a great comedian jim has become... the end was especially funny >.<
I was taking the piss, but if you want to be all serious and stuff, the gaming community tends to want the shiniest turd, and people ***** and moan about how BLT's visuals "hurt my eyes."Matthi205 said:
The writing's usually adequate, sometimes poor. Same as all videogame writing, since there is actually no good videogame writing, and never has been. Sure, it's maybe overall worse than Walking Dead for instance, but Walking Dead's writing also had frequent moments of facepalm-worthy shittiness, as well as entire conversations that felt painfully unnecessary (especially in the final episode, which could have been about half as long without sacrificing anything, and had some horribly fake dialogue, like in that whole scene where they are trying to break through the wooden wall in the attic). All in all, it's ok, for videogame writing.Vitagen said:
Anton Chekhov once wrote, and I'm paraphrasing, that the only way to write a great story is to first write a shitty one, then rewrite it by removing half of it, and then repeat that process several times. This is not a concept that seems to apply to videogame writing, so we can't expect anything really good any time soon.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
And now after this brief show of panic, I return to a regular mode of writing.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I liked the last little short film David Cage directed(robolady wanting to live).
Sure hope there's a game in the next product he's putting out. Not sure I want to deal with a QTE bonanza.
And now after this brief show of panic, I return to a regular mode of writing.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I liked the last little short film David Cage directed(robolady wanting to live).
Sure hope there's a game in the next product he's putting out. Not sure I want to deal with a QTE bonanza.
Okay, actually watched the video in question that this was parodying, and I have to say... David Cage is actually right.
I mean, he leaves alot of room for people to make a strawman out of him, but he's right. The advantage of having technology is that you now have the power to, if you so choose, emulate emotion on a character's face without resorting to exaggeration. This is excellent for breaking down another wall in immersion. It wasn't stated, nor implied that better graphigz and moar poligonz equalz moar emotun, just that they give the developers more power to create it. It's well established that if you want to convey emotion, you need to give your audience a reason to have feelings for what you create, usually in that they can relate to it somehow. Cage never said that you can now skip that entire process of creating believable characters and employing drama into your work due to the better super graphics polygons emotion.
The focal point of that presentation, however, WAS the graphical capabilities of the PS4, and the argument was that graphics r gud, which is true, but they're not a necessity. It sounds to me like Cage was just excited that, hey, they got this new tool, and now, suddenly, they can start broadcasting in color versus black and white.
And yeah, developers will pervert it. But do you know what? I have a hunch that, among those list of developers that do so, going straight for moar polygonz (omg) and nothing else, Quantic Dream will not be on that list.
I mean, he leaves alot of room for people to make a strawman out of him, but he's right. The advantage of having technology is that you now have the power to, if you so choose, emulate emotion on a character's face without resorting to exaggeration. This is excellent for breaking down another wall in immersion. It wasn't stated, nor implied that better graphigz and moar poligonz equalz moar emotun, just that they give the developers more power to create it. It's well established that if you want to convey emotion, you need to give your audience a reason to have feelings for what you create, usually in that they can relate to it somehow. Cage never said that you can now skip that entire process of creating believable characters and employing drama into your work due to the better super graphics polygons emotion.
The focal point of that presentation, however, WAS the graphical capabilities of the PS4, and the argument was that graphics r gud, which is true, but they're not a necessity. It sounds to me like Cage was just excited that, hey, they got this new tool, and now, suddenly, they can start broadcasting in color versus black and white.
And yeah, developers will pervert it. But do you know what? I have a hunch that, among those list of developers that do so, going straight for moar polygonz (omg) and nothing else, Quantic Dream will not be on that list.
