Jimquisition: Fake Nerd Girls

[Jenvas1306]

are we talking about "fake gamer girls" or are we just talking about "girls who play games" here becuase I get the impression you have a problem with the latter , do "real gamer girls" exist to you?

You think that 'fake nerd girl'-problem is a little thing that a minority of people brought up, but then you see arguments of such guys and you realize, those tards exist...

 

[wild0061]

The problem with posers is that actual nerds and geeks are still ostracized and treated like crap by "mainstream" society, so it is rather painful to watch people co-opt and dilute the positive identity they have created through being a pariah.

Go figure that people might be upset about that.

Gaming/anime/manga/scifi shows are becoming more popular among the wider culture, but the actual nerds and geeks that created the initial base for those things are not. That is why the typical stereotype is still a fat, basement dwelling, neckbeard or heroin skinny, glasses wearing, bucktoothed, egghead. That is why their is push back and "gate keeping". The pariah knows what they have helped create is accepted or enjoyed, they also know the poser has not accepted the actual nerds/geeks who have helped create it.

Then, as numerous people have pointed out, posers actually do take attention away from the real nerds and geeks. Nerds and geeks, who have worthwhile comments on the culture and it various mediums get passed over for someone who looks hot but contributes nothing worthy of discussion. Yeah, that can be rather irritating.

And make no mistake, male posers are attacked too. Usually a man who is found to be a poser is quickly rousted out if they try to speak for an area of geekdom they are pretending in.

Eh, it pisses me off.
Never seen a dude be accused of being fake.
So, only females can be fake?

EDIT: Oh and people likening this to 'weeding out the posers', why is it girls getting the weeding but for a male, one's nerdiness is seldom called into question?

Bull**** you've never seen a guy being accused of being a fake. Guys get called fakes all the time. Guys get called fakes more than girls/women/females. Ever heard the term "Bro" gamer? Or guys being called out on being CoD fratboys? The entirety of the CoD not being real gamers mentality is entirely aimed at males for liking their Total Heterosexual Kill Fest games. The entirety of the PC Gaming Master Race vs Dirty Console Peasants was almost entirely male centric when gender came into it as well, with male gamers being blamed for yet another watered down shooter/reskinned sports game.

It is common, insanely common, for Bro gamers to be dismissed as not real gamers. Just mentioning you like CoD or Halo in some gaming circles will instantly get you thrown out if you are a guy.

And in table top gaming simply liking the wrong RPG system can get you tossed out. Just revealing you are a Brony (Bronie? I always forget the spelling) can get you tossed out of some nerd circles for not being a true Scotsman.

The difference is no one cares when a guy gets called a fake/poser and chased off or isolated; at best disinterested parties call it penis waving, or just lump them into different sub-cultures within geekdom. Another difference is this curious social difference in that guys rarely make being a guy their declared defining trait in the realms of geekdom. They are gamers, nerds, or geeks first, and guys second, sometimes guys third or fourth depending on how specific their set of interests is, if they even think about being male/gender at all.

On top of disinterest in what guys actually face, guys get the double whammy of also being the sexist, misogynist pigs who alternatively only think of bewbs when they see an attractive women, then get accused of Idunnowhat, double reverse misogny, in threads like this for not instantly being accepting of attractive women in geekdom and instead being so audacious as to actually try to establish that it is not an attempted exploitation of the stereotype of nerds and geeks being little better than sex-starved teens.

Being called misogynist, being subject to a form of misandry, and marginalized creates backlack, go figure. Being exposed constantly to the same kind of attitude that made shirts that say "Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" acceptable, but "Girls are stupid, pull their hair" unacceptable creates a group suspicious of outsiders, go figure. It does not engender feelings of peace and acceptance among nerds and geeks.

Big surprise some guys who are part of a group of men who have largely been viewed as emasculated and ostracized by the larger portion of society might be a bit defensive of their space and therefore suspicious of outsiders trying to exploit them or insult their intelligence. And what guys have to go through in geekdom and mainstream society is largely ignored, or pushed to the side, and this in turn ignores why guys might be suspicious of girls coming into geekdom ?or part of a different sphere of geekdom? who are possibly only trying to humiliate, exploit, or marginalize them.

Even look at this debate, look at Jim's video, talking about the suspicion women face, as if no man/boy has ever had to deal with it. Anyone who has witnessed an Edition war knows that guys face the challenge of being authentic all the friggin time, inside geekdom as well as in mainstream society. It is not unique to women.

Even looking like the stereotypical nerd or geek male can still get your credentials double checked because you said you like 4th ed. and were not a fan of 3.5. If you are a gaming geek and dare walk into the realm of table top expect to be put through a ringer of tests to show you can RP or wargame properly, else you be labelled as That Guy.

The entirety of geekdom is built upon the testing of credentials and establishing a sub-culture within the culture. This actually makes sense when examining what a nerd or geek actually is, a person who is obsessively knowledgeable and conscientious about particular interests that are widely looked down upon or misunderstood by mainstream society.

Women are not the only ones who 'suffer' the woes of being accused of not being authentic, but, predictably, women are the only ones whose suffering we care about or bother to notice.

Will no one think of the Bro gamer?

I think this pretty much is it, should change the thread title from 'Fake nerd girls' to just 'Fake nerds', i think that would be a more interesting discussion overall

 

[Vault101]

are we talking about "fake gamer girls" or are we just talking about "girls who play games" here becuase I get the impression you have a problem with the latter , do "real gamer girls" exist to you?

You think that 'fake nerd girl'-problem is a little thing that a minority of people brought up, but then you see arguments of such guys and you realize, those tards exist...

ans then you decide to argue with them with the full knowelge your bashing your head against a brick wall but you can;t stop

 

[Furnacewhelp]

I never asked to be a nerd. That label was placed on me against my will as a derogatory term. Even today, when being a nerd is supposed to be socially acceptable, it's still used against me in a negative way. Bottom line, I paid a price to be called a nerd, I earned that title. So when I see people calling themselves nerds and expecting to receive praise and admiration because of it, it makes me sick.

Now, I'm all for more people being interested in the Nerdic arts and nerds becoming mainstream. But as far as I'm concerned, they can pay for it just like I did. If you really find enjoyment in video games/anime/comics/role-playing/etc., then through the scorn, you are simply going through the trials that countless other nerds before you had to endure. If you are faking interest, then do yourself a favor and pack up and go home.

It's the emotional scar that goes the deepest and takes the longest heal. If you want acceptance without facing the trials then do your best to mend the wounds of those who were forced to go before you.

 

[leviadragon99]

Yeah, it's embarrassing that this is even apparently a "thing" with some people, can we please just be better than this? No more exclusionary, cliquey bullshit? Fuck, we all gravitated to games to get away from that kind of attitude didn't we?

 

[Phasmal]

I was a little hesitant to respond to this because I always hate disagreeing with essay writers.

Eh, it pisses me off.
Never seen a dude be accused of being fake.
So, only females can be fake?

EDIT: Oh and people likening this to 'weeding out the posers', why is it girls getting the weeding but for a male, one's nerdiness is seldom called into question?

Bull**** you've never seen a guy being accused of being a fake. Guys get called fakes all the time. Guys get called fakes more than girls/women/females. Ever heard the term "Bro" gamer? Or guys being called out on being CoD fratboys? The entirety of the CoD not being real gamers mentality is entirely aimed at males for liking their Total Heterosexual Kill Fest games. The entirety of the PC Gaming Master Race vs Dirty Console Peasants was almost entirely male centric when gender came into it as well, with male gamers being blamed for yet another watered down shooter/reskinned sports game.

Well, actually, I haven't seen guys being called fake nerds.
I have heard of people being called brogamers. However, not every single male gamer I know has been accused of this, whereas every single female gamer I know has been accused of being a fake nerd to get `attention`(?!).
Also, most people I know use brogamer as a joke term. Then again I tend not to hang around elitist assholes so maybe that's just me.
My point, I have heard this being used to describe dudes who were only into parts of gaming, I haven't heard anyone decrying dudes for not being into gaming AT ALL and pretending like they are.

It is common, insanely common, for Bro gamers to be dismissed as not real gamers. Just mentioning you like CoD or Halo in some gaming circles will instantly get you thrown out if you are a guy.

And in table top gaming simply liking the wrong RPG system can get you tossed out. Just revealing you are a Brony (Bronie? I always forget the spelling) can get you tossed out of some nerd circles for not being a true Scotsman.

Right, and in what part of my post did I argue for nerd-exclusion, anywhere?
Nowhere?
Kay.
These things shouldn't happen to men just like they shouldn't happen to women, but women were the topic of this discussion.

The difference is no one cares when a guy gets called a fake/poser and chased off or isolated; at best disinterested parties call it penis waving, or just lump them into different sub-cultures within geekdom. Another difference is this curious social difference in that guys rarely make being a guy their declared defining trait in the realms of geekdom. They are gamers, nerds, or geeks first, and guys second, sometimes guys third or fourth depending on how specific their set of interests is, if they even think about being male/gender at all.

I'm confused at this.
Who do you think was the first one to make this about gender?
I think maybe it was the people freaking out that girls were in their treehouse.
When I don't need to `prove` myself in ways my male friends dont have to, then I will not really describe myself as a female gamer, when people stop assuming that gamer means guy I won't have to stick `female` on the front of it. Til then, tough tits.

On top of disinterest in what guys actually face, guys get the double whammy of also being the sexist, misogynist pigs who alternatively only think of bewbs when they see an attractive women, then get accused of Idunnowhat, double reverse misogny, in threads like this for not instantly being accepting of attractive women in geekdom and instead being so audacious as to actually try to establish that it is not an attempted exploitation of the stereotype of nerds and geeks being little better than sex-starved teens.

Being called misogynist, being subject to a form of misandry, and marginalized creates backlack, go figure. Being exposed constantly to the same kind of attitude that made shirts that say "Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" acceptable, but "Girls are stupid, pull their hair" unacceptable creates a group suspicious of outsiders, go figure. It does not engender feelings of peace and acceptance among nerds and geeks.

Big surprise some guys who are part of a group of men who have largely been viewed as emasculated and ostracized by the larger portion of society might be a bit defensive of their space and therefore suspicious of outsiders trying to exploit them or insult their intelligence. And what guys have to go through in geekdom and mainstream society is largely ignored, or pushed to the side, and this in turn ignores why guys might be suspicious of girls coming into geekdom ?or part of a different sphere of geekdom? who are possibly only trying to humiliate, exploit, or marginalize them.

Even look at this debate, look at Jim's video, talking about the suspicion women face, as if no man/boy has ever had to deal with it. Anyone who has witnessed an Edition war knows that guys face the challenge of being authentic all the friggin time, inside geekdom as well as in mainstream society. It is not unique to women.

Even looking like the stereotypical nerd or geek male can still get your credentials double checked because you said you like 4th ed. and were not a fan of 3.5. If you are a gaming geek and dare walk into the realm of table top expect to be put through a ringer of tests to show you can RP or wargame properly, else you be labelled as That Guy.

The entirety of geekdom is built upon the testing of credentials and establishing a sub-culture within the culture. This actually makes sense when examining what a nerd or geek actually is, a person who is obsessively knowledgeable and conscientious about particular interests that are widely looked down upon or misunderstood by mainstream society.

Women are not the only ones who 'suffer' the woes of being accused of not being authentic, but, predictably, women are the only ones whose suffering we care about or bother to notice.

Will no one think of the Bro gamer?

This is also a bit gibberish to me.
When dudes quiz me for `proof` of my `fakeness` they are not doing so to test my credentials. I have had guys flat out admit that they try to trip up women in ways they wouldn't to a dude.
I hang around with almost exclusively guys, who do not get `tested` like that.

But whatever.
I won't get into an essay-flinging contest.
Nerd elitism needs to go away in all its forms, whether it is dubbing males brogamers or females fake.
Basically we need to get over the fact that women have been here from the start, and that also our hobbies are becoming more mainstream and all the kicking and screaming in the world is not going to stop that so we all might as well come to damn terms with it.

 

[Okulossos]

snip.

thats just...stupid though

no really..thats really fucking stupid

being bitter over the fact that a so called "poser" (or not) does not have to suffer for their interests, I mean really? look ok being teased and ostrasiced sucks, bullying sucks, highschool sucks I get it

but fo crying out loud thats just persecution complex to taken tot he exteme...

I was never openly into thease things back then, and I only had outside knowelege...it wasn;t untill two years ago I started REALLY gaming and getting into all of this "nerd culture" I've never been persecuted for anything....so am I somhow to blame here?

oh god..where the fuck do I start? I don't want to do this but somtimes I just can;t help but punish myself

I think that is is just awesome how you don't even read the posting... I am not bitter, I am ju8st saying that i understand the point of view.
It is not stupid and it is not about suffering, but you can read that in my other postings.

Yea, I already figured, that you where just one of those guys who just went with the flow, you have no idea what this is about, so you should really stop talking about is .

 

[bluepilot]

Thank you so much for this one.

I think that the whole "fake nerd" thing stems from the fact that some of us discovered our beloved games and characters when we were every young though saturday morning TV, comic books, and cartridge games (floppy disk in my case). On the other hand other people discovered the same things through more mainstream channels. Of course, the knowledge of the latter can never been compared to the knowledge of the former. It is different to have grown up in the culture, and to have found it later in life. I welcome both of course, but I love to meet kindred spirits who grew up the same way I did.

I have never been accused of being a faker, but then again since I started video gaming with Rodland on the amiga 500, have a huge comic collection, speak and read Japanese fluently (hence a huge manga collection in the original language ), multiple plushies and action figures. and an extensive knowledge of the marvel and DC universe...well...it would be pretty hard to find something to call me out on.

I do not know if these things make me a nerd or a fake or whatever, but I do not care (dives into huge totoro plushie pile)

 

[Jenvas1306]

Yea, I already figured, that you where just one of those guys who just went with the flow, you have no idea what this is about, so you should really stop talking about is .

so you decide who is a real gamer now? what puts you into such a position? and why should we consider you a real gamer?
Is it now necessary to take a test to be a real gamer? a real nerd? (thats not a title, thats originally an insult)

 

[Okulossos]

Yea, I already figured, that you where just one of those guys who just went with the flow, you have no idea what this is about, so you should really stop talking about is .

so you decide who is a real gamer now? what puts you into such a position? and why should we consider you a real gamer?
Is it now necessary to take a test to be a real gamer? a real nerd? (thats not a title, thats originally an insult)

Than is not what I said. I never used the term "gamer" but it is a fact, that you are just in it because it is now a cool thing. You lack the background and understanding. This does not make you a non-gamer or non-nerd, it just makes you someone who can not understand what is going on in this discussion. You are part of why things have gone that wrong and the way you argue makes this even more clear. You are now part of this culture, but you are not part of what this culture used to be.
You see, you might be a gamer, but you are in no position to make statements on this subject.

 

[Jenvas1306]

Yea, I already figured, that you where just one of those guys who just went with the flow, you have no idea what this is about, so you should really stop talking about is .

so you decide who is a real gamer now? what puts you into such a position? and why should we consider you a real gamer?
Is it now necessary to take a test to be a real gamer? a real nerd? (thats not a title, thats originally an insult)

Than is not what I said. I never used the term "gamer" but it is a fact, that you are just in it because it is now a cool thing. You lack the background and understanding. This does not make you a non-gamer or non-nerd, it just makes you someone who can not understand what is going on in this discussion. You are part of why things have gone that wrong and the way you argue makes this even more clear. You are now part of this culture, but you are not part of what this culture used to be.
You see, you might be a gamer, but you are in no position to make statements on this subject.

you dont read too much huh? im a different person than vault101.
I've been a nerd all my life, got a gameboy with 6, a super nintendo with 7 (still got that thing), I've allways been interessted in computers, even when the internet became slowly more known here in germany and i barely understood when my father explained it to me (also around the time I was 5 or 6 (1995/1996).
Pokemon cards was quite a thing for me, so were games later on. My father is a tech nerd, but not a gamer.
So how do you judge that now?

and do you want that 'that culture' never changes? what is that culture anyways? who is in it? when are you in it? how do you know if you are a nerd/gamer?

And do you seriously say that an open mind to change makes me not a gamer? ever heard the term 'fascism'?

 

[Vault101]

I think that is is just awesome how you don't even read the posting... I am not bitter, I am ju8st saying that i understand the point of view.
It is not stupid and it is not about suffering, but you can read that in my other postings.

I was not directing at you per se..just the attitude, even if it is somwhat justified its not healthy and I'd argue its part of some of the problems (like the sexism thing) its a "us vs them" metality...a "special club" mentality

[quote/]Yea, I already figured, that you where just one of those guys who just went with the flow, you have no idea what this is about, so you should really stop talking about is .[/quote]
"go with the flow"?
I think I know what I'm talking about thankyouverymcuh

Than is not what I said. I never used the term "gamer" but it is a fact, that you are just in it because it is now a cool thing. You lack the background and understanding. This does not make you a non-gamer or non-nerd, it just makes you someone who can not understand what is going on in this discussion. You are part of why things have gone that wrong and the way you argue makes this even more clear. You are now part of this culture, but you are not part of what this culture used to be.
You see, you might be a gamer, but you are in no position to make statements on this subject.

are you talking to me or jenvas now?

 

[Jenvas1306]

are you talking to me or jenvas now?

I dont think he knows who he is talking to...or what he is talking at all

 

[Jenvas1306]

Is this dead now? I hope so.
Everyone who has so elitist opinions about being a nerd/gamer or gamer/nerd culture, surely only shows how scared they are.
With some common sense, lets welcome everyone who wants to get more into games or other things along these lines.
If there is such a culture, let it be open and friendly.

 

[Vault101]

are you talking to me or jenvas now?

I dont think he knows who he is talking to...or what he is talking at all

but I want a chance to flash my "nerd cred" card with rightous RAGE!

seriously I never get to do that

 

[Phasmal]

Actually from what I recall, the article was incredibly sexist, regardless of it's intended message. "A six trying to act like a nine? THE NERVE! LEARN YOUR PLACE, ATTENTION WHORE!"

Yeah it was pretty shitty.
I liked this: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/07/26/who-gets-to-be-a-geek-anyone-who-wants-to-be/.
Summed up my feelings on things pretty good.

 

[Oskuro]

But if I go up to a good looking girl and say, "hey, I like your Kingdom Hearts shirt," I'm suddenly met with stares like I was rubbing my hands and licking my lips while staring at her tits. I genuinely thought a girl shared my common interest of the Disney/Squaresoft JRPG.

Well fuck her. I didn't do anything wrong and now she thinks I'm going to rape her because I SOMEHOW know the origin of her shirt? Shy should I have to be rejected in such a bad way.

I think this is the issue. Guys who think they have a shot because they've finally found a hot girl that shares their (nerdy) interests, only to feel rejected when they find out the girl isn't that much into it.

Or, to put it in a more rude way, lots of horny men angry at women that won't sleep with them.

Sorry to be blunt. I can sympathize, believe me, I'm there too, I'd love to meet women with my admittedly nerdy interests, rather than feel like an alien when their interests are about wine, historical novels or interpretative dance. But seriously, shut the fuck up.

A woman, like anyone, has a right to wear or do as she likes. If she wants to pretend to be geeky, let her. If she wants to dress so slutty as to make Bayonetta blush, it's her right to do so. And none of these things should have any bearing on the respect granted to them as human beings.

 

[chiefohara]

All the best to Megan and Jared, hope ye have a great life together

 

[Okulossos]

I was not directing at you per se..just the attitude, even if it is somwhat justified its not healthy and I'd argue its part of some of the problems (like the sexism thing) its a "us vs them" metality...a "special club" mentality

Yea, seeing sexism as a problem is of cause part of the sexism problem... sorry, but no!
Sexism was not present when I started, all this trolling and flaming began when people started to join in who had no place there.

"go with the flow"?
I think I know what I'm talking about thankyouverymcuh[7quote]
I think you don't.
I even think you can't! How could you after all? You have not been there, you have no Idea

 

[Entitled]

The analogy would be more fitting if the young black voters would be explicitly comparing themselves to the heroes of the Civil rights movement, abusing the fact that the significance of going to vote has changed, and they are not bravely fighting authority as the old man did.

The problem is not that young people are having a good life, but that they are belittling the memory of those who weren't as lucky as them.

Gaming is now a worldwide mainstream cultural phenomenon, with facebook games, iPhone apps, etc. That's good, I guess. Comic Book adaptations are being turned into blockbusters. That's pretty neutral to me, I don't care about comics anyways. Sci-fi shows are common, zombies are more mainstream than football, good for the artists, otherwise whatever.

I don't mind them loving their own, changed versions of these. But couldn't they enjoy them without ripping off the mannerisms and surface elements of that weird subculture of loners and freaks a few decades ago, who pursued "childish" hobbies, who obsessed over hated genres, whose entertainment often actually got BANNED, and who went the hard way to do the unusual, the freakish, the unacceptable?

The heros of old didnt fight for personal recognition or merit. They probably knew they would recieve none and many would bastardise their cause. The "heros of old" wouldnt mind becaue the fact that these people exist to do this proves their fight is won. Im VERY happy people can now use our mannerisms and surface elements without being persecuted. Im happy that the fruits of our labour went to make others happy. I dont mind that they "Rip us off" or that they enjoy the original without "Fighting the good fight". Just because they werent around, old enough or in the right place to "Fight the good fight" doesnt mean they arnt entitled to the original experience we fought so hard to just enjoy ourselves.

Well, that's just it. Nerds are NOT "heroes of old". They were not "fighting for" anything, and especially not for nerdiness being mainstream, just wanted to be left alone as a subculture.

And that's why your analogy is inherently faulty. a civil rights activits who hates present kids having civil rights, is a HYPOCRITE, because his acts are going against his claimed goals.

But not every group can be expected to struggle for total inclusiveness.

For example, it would be pretty weird to say that the original punk rockers should feel happy about big corporations commercializing their mannerisms, and kids imitating their "popular" clothing and hairstyles. After all, these these would be pretty much directly opposed to their whole underlying ideology, about being anti-consumerist, anti-mainstream, and anti-normal.

Or that indie game fans shoul feel happy about Electronic Arts releasing a so-called "indie bundle". Even if it imitates typical indie games with cheap small games, the indie commnunity was also about something more than that, about independence, and free artistic thoughts, so EA of all things imitating them is pretty crude.

You are talking as if the mainstream trying to jump on a bandwagon by copying references, would automatically count as "winning the good fight", so we should all lay back. But that's not the case. Just because EA is publishing something that it calls an "indie bundle", doesn't mean that the indie movement defeated EA's corparate system, quite the opposite.

Likewise, just because now the most ordinary, popular, socially and phsysically attractive people are calling themselves "nerds" while they are watching the most popular movies of our times and playing on their phones just as the giant billboard ad tells them to, doesn't mean that the older underlying paradigm of the subculture that they imitate, has won. Quite the opposite.

Traits like being socially awkward, or being obsessive about a niche interest, are just as mocked as they ever were, it's just a shift of brandings, where the old nerds' identity was recycled for mainstream usage, and now we have to reclaim another insult for ourselves.