Jimquisition: Fake Nerd Girls

[Okulossos]

you dont read too much huh? im a different person than vault101.
I've been a nerd all my life, got a gameboy with 6, a super nintendo with 7 (still got that thing), I've allways been interessted in computers, even when the internet became slowly more known here in germany and i barely understood when my father explained it to me (also around the time I was 5 or 6 (1995/1996).
Pokemon cards was quite a thing for me, so were games later on. My father is a tech nerd, but not a gamer.
So how do you judge that now?

Well... Pokemon... ok
Then you should know what I am talking about... except if you have not been part of the Internet at that time...

and do you want that 'that culture' never changes? what is that culture anyways? who is in it? when are you in it? how do you know if you are a nerd/gamer?

I have not made any comments about what it takes to be a nerd or a gamer or whatever, you can be what you want. All I said was, that there is a difference and that there was a problem with nerd culture being part of the popular culture. I am not making assumptions about who does and who does not belong (except for obvious cases). this is not about the change of a culture, but about the destruction of one.

And do you seriously say that an open mind to change makes me not a gamer? ever heard the term 'fascism'?

I am saying that there is a difference between an open mind and an open door for every one. If you go through with what you said you should be inviting everybody you meet into you home. You would never do that, so stop acting like you would .
For a fact, there are a lot of people out there that break what has been great once on a daily basis and feel fantastic about it. And that is just sad.

 

[Okulossos]

Your English needs work. I am having trouble understanding your exact meaning.

In that case it is not my English that needs work, now is it?
Yea, we are there already... Out of arguments and into criticizing spelling... that is just sad...

 

[Jenvas1306]

Yea, seeing sexism as a problem is of cause part of the sexism problem... sorry, but no!
Sexism was not present when I started, all this trolling and flaming began when people started to join in who had no place there.

"go with the flow"?
I think I know what I'm talking about thankyouverymcuh[7quote]
I think you don't.
I even think you can't! How could you after all? You have not been there, you have no Idea

People started to join in who had no place there? like black people in the front of the bus?

and where have you been that entitles you so much? a certain epic D&D campain? vietnam?

WTH are you talking about?

 

[Jenvas1306]

Okulossos, where were you? I'm really getting curious now. What exactly are you referring to? Did they take your legs and shot billy right next to you in the head?
You are talking like some sort of veteran...

 

[Vault101]

Yea, seeing sexism as a problem is of cause part of the sexism problem... sorry, but no!
Sexism was not present when I started, all this trolling and flaming began when people started to join in who had no place there.

oh please how can you say "sexism wasnt presant" thats anecdotal evidence at best

and in the past the internet and games were not so intertwined, and don't tell me your "typical nerd" isn't capable of being a trolling fuckwit..in fact I'd say a great many are

and the "sexism" thing comes from "seing the fairer sex as alien" which certian people are inclined to do, not to imply all "nerds" share this trait because thats not true....a whole spectrum of different people can enjoy "nerdy" things

who are thease people anyway? "no place being there" when it boild down toit, its entertainment and people can enjoy whatever the hell they want regardless of if it hurts your nerd sensibilitys

I even think you can't! How could you after all? You have not been there, you have no Idea

where have I not been? what do I have no Idea about? because I havn't been picked on for being nerdy?

 

[Malisteen]

The "fake nerd girl" thing is just the latest embarrassing escapade in the ongoing and painful process of dragging the underlying current of sexism in the geek community out into the sunlight where it can shrivel up and die. Sarkeesian, Bakhtanian, and controversies over the Hitman trailer and the Laura Croft rape thing, these are just some of the most prominant examples of what seems to be a weekly parade of embarrassment. A litany of shame that will continue until the tumor has been removed.

Because there's no going back. Nerd stuff is too mainstream now to just casually disregard or even directly alienate half of all potential consumers.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

I ASSUME fake gamer girls are an "issue" because hardcore gamers will go "OMG HOT CHICK WHO LIKES GAMES!! MUST DATE/BANG!!!" And then it turns out they're not that into games (or they ARE into game, but not as much as them), and don't want to do gaming stuff 24/7 and the guy then goes "OMGFAKE!!! YOULIEDTOMEEEEEEEEEEEEE".

...At least, I think that's why there's outrage.

 

[Malisteen]

I ASSUME fake gamer girls are an "issue" because hardcore gamers will go "OMG HOT CHICK WHO LIKES GAMES!! MUST DATE/BANG!!!" And then it turns out they're not that into games (or they ARE into game, but not as much as them), and don't want to do gaming stuff 24/7 and the guy then goes "OMGFAKE!!! YOULIEDTOMEEEEEEEEEEEEE".

...At least, I think that's why there's outrage.

IME, close. It more frequently seems to be "OMG HOT CHICK WHO LIKES GAMES!! MUST DATE/BANG!!!", and then it turns out that while the girl is into games, she doesn't want to date or bang you. Maybe she has a boyfriend. Maybe she likes chicks. Maybe she prefers a guy who showers every week at least. Or maybe she didn't come to the convention to be hit on, thank you very much.

Oh, why is she dressed in a slutty costume? Maybe she likes cosplay, and there just aren't very many non-slutty options for female costumes to choose from in comics and games? Maybe the complainers should take that up with the creators? Does it really matter what she wears or why?

But in any event, it frequently seems to come down to hating on and attacking women who "gave" the dude a hard on, but don't want to "take care of it." The 'fake nerd girl' thing is just an excuse to attack them and tell them they don't belong. Because of course, the world revolves around the dudes, and anything any girl does in the vicinity of a dude was done specifically to illicit some response from him, and any response the dude conjures to a girl is of course the girl's fault.

Because that was their plan all along. To give you a boner. And you ... ... got one! [http://youtu.be/507Ve-rCb8o]


The other side of the coin is a persecution complex. Reference all the comments along the lines of "I earned my way into nerddom with all those swirlies I got from jock dudes and all the times a pretty girl rejected me / didn't magically pick up on my feelings for her that I was too insecure to voice in the first place". And while I can empathize with that - I certainly got my fair share of stuff thrown at the back of my head in high school, I was made fun of and tripped down the stairs and had my backpack stolen and worse - when it comes right down to it, it seems like a real shame to me that the only thing many guys in the geek and nerd community learned from the experience of being bullied was how to be bully themselves.

 

[game-lover]

Right so I'm late to this thread so pardon me if this was mentioned already...

But... this is an issue for male gamers?

Every thing I saw that focused on this came from the female gamers. The ones who consider themselves true nerd girls and believe all the others are phonys who are either... making them appear bad or again, stealing attention.

Most recently, I read this webcomic with two huge panels. One had a "hot" girl dressed sexy and saying something about a fondness for videogames with the caption: "this is not a girl gamer."

Then the next panel has an average girl, dressed in around the house clothes in front of a game console saying that she'll sleep when Hyrule is saved. And above the caption: "This is a girl gamer."

And before that was this funny episode from this web series that's set in a game shop. And this gorgeous girl comes in wearing a tight shirt saying "I love videogames" and big dorky glasses. The sole female employed there goes into a rant about how she's not really a true nerd/gamer. It ends funnily when they get in an argument and employee snaps customer's glasses in two. Said lady can't see, wanders out of the store and gets hit by a car. When everyone stares at the employee, she says: "just because her glasses were prescription/real doesn't mean she's a true gamer!"

Having all these dudes be so offended by phony nerd girls is definite news to me.

 

[Malisteen]

Having all these dudes be so offended by phony nerd girls is definite news to me.

Yes, it's a thing. I'm surprised you haven't come across it. The current hubbub over it was sparked by comments from a couple comics creators [http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/post/35644420254/tonyharris], but dudes attacking self-identified nerd girls for not being 'real' nerds is in fact a thing and has been growing more prevalent for a while. As have complaints about it. As have reactions to those complaints.

As usual, it's usually the reactions to the complaints where you get the most blatant examples of sexism in the community. Some bigwig or creator or blogger or just dude with a bit of publicity will say or do something wish sexist implications, and then a few critics will call them out on it, and then the critics will be buried in an avalanche of angry internet trolls rushing to defend the original dude by attacking the critics as "sluts" or "whores" or "prudes" or "manginas" or whatever else, while the person who made the original feux pas will either double down on their terribleness or issue a condescending non-apology.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Sounds to me like the latter girl was just really crap at her job and presumably couldn't get a job anywhere else, and not really a "Fake Nerd Girl." Esp. since it sounds like she wasn't particularly good at faking it if she was.

Honestly I think she was but it was kind of clear why she went for the job there and most likely faked some interest in working there. She wasn't exactly a master at it as clearly she was more after one certain guy then attempting to exploit who ever she could get.
The basis is clear though as to how a fake nerd girl could be a detriment. imagine if she were better at faking it and had the "guys are tools" attitude. It would be worrying to me at least.

It would seem to me that such girls would be fairly obvious thus the 3rd degree would be unnecessary.

 

[CrashTest]

While I usually agree with Jim, and have never complained about the fake nerd girl thing anywhere, I think the video glossed over some important ways in which fake gamer girls are damaging:

1) They damage REAL gamer girls in three ways. Firstly, and most obviously, they add competition in a market for attention unfairly. Given that only a small amount of time can be spent getting to know a person, there is no way for a legitimate gamer girl to 'prove' herself in any useful way.

2) They raise expectations. If it it appears at first glance that gamer girls are common, happy to dress in a slutty pikachu outfit, and usually conforming to ridiculous societal norms of attractiveness, this just encourages unrealistic expectations.

3) If a significant number of women at such events are 'fake' gamer girls, and by nature of being out for attention are more sociable, then they will naturally interact with more people. When this leads to the fairly obvious realisation that they have only superficial knowledge of gaming, then this only reinforces the stereotype that girls aren't gamers.

Also, there was a bit of a (surprising) stereotyping going on underneath Jim's analysis. The assumption seems to be that the majority of male gamers are hideous social outcasts with no hope of interacting with or, Heaven forbid, actually attracting a woman. Should a man actually want to meet up with a gamer girl on the grounds that they are actually interested in meeting someone with similar interests, and not just someone willing to dress like pikachu, then fake gamer girls make this all the more difficult.

So, overall, fake gamer girls can be pretty damaging both to real gamer girls and to anyone who'd like to get to know gamer girls (even for completely platonic reasons) but doesn't have time (or confidence) to speak to everyone they meet and work out if they actually share any interests. This isn't exclusively limited to gaming, it applies to any sub-culture that becomes 'cool'.

 

[Slash2x]

1. If you truly identify with a specific group or section of society that does not require admission, a formal process, or certain DNA. Congratz you are in!! There is no damn test to be a NERD or a GAMER.

2. I get the impression that this argument is more slated toward the advertisement world because well they are all under the impression everyone who is not them are just sheep and idiots.

3. If there are men out there who are pissed at women who do this in a social setting to them personally?.. You are morons, a girl doing this wants your attention you asexual idiots. Ask her out and even if it is fake interest it can become genuine interest if gaming becomes a ?thing? the two of you do.

My wife was only interested in games because I was when we were dating, so she was "fake" in that her last gaming was on the NES before me. Now she is a completionist and has played more of New Vegas than me and is looking forward to Hitman: Absolution more that I am (Farcry 3 for me)

 

[Deviluk]

A friend of mine who is a gamer girl told me people think she must be a guy because she plays hardcore shooters online and GoW etc, stuff that most girls are put off by. Then she tells me that I must be gay because I care about what clothes I wear and what my hygiene situation is. Double standards? I think so. But I think I'd prefer to find out that a hot girl in a cosplay outfit actually only just plays on her iPad instead of being a full on gamer like me. Or even just has a passing interest, because I love talking about games but dread that half smile, look down, sigh and then, "Can we talk about something else now?"

1. If you truly identify with a specific group or section of society that does not require admission, a formal process, or certain DNA. Congratz you are in!! There is no damn test to be a NERD or a GAMER.

2. I get the impression that this argument is more slated toward the advertisement world because well they are all under the impression everyone who is not them are just sheep and idiots.

3. If there are men out there who are pissed at women who do this in a social setting to them personally?.. You are morons, a girl doing this wants your attention you asexual idiots. Ask her out and even if it is fake interest it can become genuine interest if gaming becomes a ?thing? the two of you do.

My wife was only interested in games because I was when we were dating, so she was "fake" in that her last gaming was on the NES before me. Now she is a completionist and has played more of New Vegas than me and is looking forward to Hitman: Absolution more that I am (Farcry 3 for me)

I agree. I've been with my gf for over 2 years now and I've got her playing gw2 and an old JRPG I loved, skies of arcadia. She won't play for such a long time but its a start, if she picks up a game like New Vegas like your missus did then thats insta-marriage material for me right there.

 

[chronobreak]

It's amazing to me (well, kind of) that Jim couldn't do any research on this issue and why it ticks people off. Honestly, the way he presents opinions, he's the Fox News of game blogging, because he sure as hell doesn't do enough research or present things in any way close to a journalist.

I'd love to see him come in here and defend his position like any man would when challenged, but I don't expect it. It's easy to spout off opinions when you don't have to take criticism about them.

 

[rasta111]

The hat, was vaguely funny after all, Jim... Seriously, the moment it was on the screen... Not the cheese though.

Do you see what you've done? I hope you took the time to read through every last post here, because if you skipped even one... I skimmed through, looks truly agonising, well, have fun everyone.

 

[Arkynomicon]

Never was an issue to me.

I don't think of myself as part of the gamer 'culture', though. Mostly because I don't consider most games I play to have any important cultural relevance.

 

[the Dept of Science]

We've seen this phenomenon with a lot of other subcultures, especially ones that have gone from being "underground" to mainstream. Think of all the debates in certain music subcultures about "authenticity". Punk, rap and blues being great examples. Alternatively, the old hipster mantra of "I saw them before they were famous".
Right now there are people pissed off that Mumford & Sons have gone Platinum and hundreds of people claim they are folk fans but don't have any Woody Guthrie albums. Same thing.

Some people strongly identify with a certain image or interest, it becomes their "thing", even their personality. They invest time and money into becoming knowledgeable about the subject, they build their social circle around it.
Suddenly it becomes popular and it no longer makes them special or unique like it did before.

 

[Entitled]

1. If you truly identify with a specific group or section of society that does not require admission, a formal process, or certain DNA. Congratz you are in!! There is no damn test to be a NERD or a GAMER.

I disagree with that one. Just because a group has no clear-cut border, it can still have a definition that obviously excludes at least some people who are very distant from it.

If I, as a full-blood Hungarian who has never left mainland Europe, would claim to be a Scotsman, you would be entirely justified to call me out on being No True Scotsman.

The fallacy only applies to situations where you are making up criteria on the spot, such as old man MacDonald living in Scotland, born in Scotland, and speaking Scots, is No True Scotsman if he doesn't support the Scottish independence movement.

Or like saying that I'm No True Gamer if I avoid strategy games.

But it's still possible to pretend to be a gamer in a way in which you are actually not.

3. If there are men out there who are pissed at women who do this in a social setting to them personally?.. You are morons, a girl doing this wants your attention you asexual idiots. Ask her out and even if it is fake interest it can become genuine interest if gaming becomes a ?thing? the two of you do.

I think it's more about girls (and people in general) acting like that on their youtube channels, or in their social circles, not specifically about a flirting situation.

 

[Entitled]

We've seen this phenomenon with a lot of other subcultures, especially ones that have gone from being "underground" to mainstream. Think of all the debates in certain music subcultures about "authenticity". Punk, rap and blues being great examples. Alternatively, the old hipster mantra of "I saw them before they were famous".
Right now there are people pissed off that Mumford & Sons have gone Platinum and hundreds of people claim they are folk fans but don't have any Woody Guthrie albums. Same thing.

Some people strongly identify with a certain image or interest, it becomes their "thing", even their personality. They invest time and money into becoming knowledgeable about the subject, they build their social circle around it.
Suddenly it becomes popular and it no longer makes them special or unique like it did before.

It's not just about "no longer being special", but also an anger at the original ideals of the subculture being ignored while washing out it's surface elements until they are fit for mainstream consumption.

For example, in case of Punk, the subculture's whole point used to be non-conformism and anti-consumerism, to "stick it to the man". And then, this happened:


In case of nerds, the original point was supposed to be that it was a reclaimed insult for social outcasts, to refer to their excessive knowledge about weird unpopular genres.

Now Valley Girls watching The Avengers and dudebros playing CoD, are about as nerdy as that kid above is punk.

Yeah, they technically follow the broadest possible stereotypes about what nerds do (playing video games, consuming genre fiction), but they also lack the attitudes behind it.

The true 21th century equivalents of the nerd subculture would probably be something like bronies, furries, otaku, and similar fringes who are NOW considered freakish and obsessive by the CURRENT mainstream. (that is, by the people who now call themselves "nerds").