Jimquisition: Fish, FEZ, And Supporting Art Over Artists

[AyreonMaiden]

Great point here, Jim. It's a very subjective line, and I'm glad you pointed that out. Many people are keen on boycotting things lately but they don't seem to realize that they probably have supported malpractices/assholes before for a game they've gone on to adore.

As for me, I can separate art from artist depending on how much I love the art in question. If Miyamoto pulled a Phil Fish towards American games on the cusp of the release of a Zelda game he directed, he'd be wrong as shit for doing it, but I wouldn't be able to hear you over the sound of me running to a store to buy the game 5 times. I adore Zelda. It gave me my love of games, and no douchebaggery will ever take that away from me.

Phil Fish on the other hand, worked on an indie retro puzzle platformer. I have a lot of disdain towards that genre. If I'd cared about what he said about Japan, I'd have even less reason to pay attention to it because it's now become "another indie retro puzzle platformer, whose distinction is that it was made by a not-too-humble douchebag."

I'll buy Fez eventually, and I bet it'll be fun once I start liking that kind of stuff again, but I don't blame anyone who can't stomach supporting him when what people call him "walking the walk" is a game that's part of the next biggest cash grab genre since the first person shooter.

 

[mac88]

This seems like a non-issue to me. After reading what he said, I'm having trouble coming away with any sort of racist sentiment. In fact, I'm inclined to agree with him in that modern Japanese games don't stack up well against the western market. It's a shame since most of my favorite childhood games were Japanese made. I'd like to see a return to the glory days for Konami, Square/Enix and the like.

 

[chiefohara]

What... no ME3 this week

Not sure what to think, this is the first i've heard of it.

I didn't buy LA Noire because of the working conditions reported under Brendan McNamara, I haven't bought a COD game since the Infinity ward offices were raided and their bonuses stolen, and i gave up on wow because they signed their souls over to activision for kinda the same reasons as COD.

Fish was ignorant and was fool enough to troll back to the trolls on twitter, but he's a long way from being a tyranical boss and an outright corporate thief. I don't have any real interest in Fez but he'd want to do something a bit more extreme than speak thoughtlessly for me to actively boycott him.

As always good video Jim.

 

[Freechoice]

Of course, the best solution is to learn absolutely nothing about anyone who creates anything. That way you can buy whatever you want. Ignorance is bliss and all that.

I'm not sure I'd agree. For better or worse, I always find it interesting to learn more about the mind behind a product,their inspirations and whatnot.

I followed Fish on twitter for quite a while before the Japan stuff, and he always seemed like a pretty abrasive jerk (earliest tweet I remember was something like "People keep saying Fez would look great on 3DS. Nothing looks good on 3DS, you idiots"), but I never considered not buying his game, because it seemed so sweet and fun.

Wow, he sounds pretty cool. Better than CliffyB's hurt feelings over Gears of Wahhhhhh! 3 scoring less than the previous 2 GoW's.

Really, we need more people with the balls/Thatchers to just be douches.

and i gave up on wow because they signed their souls over to activision for kinda the same reasons as COD.

It's ignorance like this that makes me facepalm and dig up wiki articles to prove a point. The parent company of Blizzard made the deal with Activision. The actual say Blizzard had in that is not stated, but they would have no discernible reason to merge with Activision. They already made billions off their games. No reason to share that with another group and hence why they retained a degree of autonomy (for a while, anyway).

The reason they've gone downhill is because they couldn't rip off Warhammer anymore.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

-------​

Instead of calling the guy a racist, why not try to refute his point about the Japanese industry?

 

[Garfy]

Fish was just saying some games suck, that's an opinion and I'll play his game (once they've patched it).

Mel Gibson shows his anti-semitism to the world, that's racist and I haven't felt comfortable watching one of his movies since.

 

[MrBaguette]

Jim Sterling...notorious self entitled asswipe...and I wouldn't have him any way As for the Fish wearing Fez it's a pity that one guy ruins the opinion of such a great game

 

[DonTsetsi]

When I went to a Hammerfall concert in my country I was surprised how insecure and childish Joacim Cans acted, it was like he was compensating for something. Still, I like the music and that didn't stop me from enjoying it. The character of one man didn't stop me from enjoying the product of the group.

 

[Torrasque]

I support art that artists create so long as those artists don't do things that completely offend me.
As far as games/movies are concerned, it depends on the weight of the offence, and also the other contributors.

 

[mfeff]

Ohh.. sorry I didn't see you there... was too busy Google: Jim Sterling is a douc...

As much as I have tried to hate on Jim, he does get it right more often than not and for some pretty gosh darn reasonable ways... if this gig doesn't work out for him, maybe he will become a weather man?

Consumer awareness is an interesting statement, in that some developers do have quite the following and certainly this leads to a certain consumer confidence and perhaps expectation on further products and projects that they develop.

Perhaps a certain consistency in whatever medium one wants to engage in?

Though, the phrase "the internet is not your friend" is also becoming more pervasive, and in that, as a developer or a figure head for a particular brand or product, one may take some of the hard lessons learned in the court of public appeals.

Perhaps this is a segway into a certain "maturity" that is becoming "required" rather than nice to have in an age of Youtube and Twitter. Ultimately, artist or Nay! One may be in a position in which one is the consummate salesman. Extraneous commentary on what one believes or does not believe seems fundamentally contrary to a sound business practice.

Is this something taught in art schools? How to be poor?

(Personally)

I would much rather hear "our development was influenced by the works of so and so..." <- appeal to nostalgia and respect for elders.

Coupled with

"we want to take it to a new direction and give the audience something they have never seen/thought about/experienced..." <- insert clever nonsense here

Stealing others power through kindness is the hallmark of a good leader. Let em be poor, tough lesson only a fool understands.

Loosing in 1000 sales to some tripe, at 1 dollar a sale, is $1,000... must have MONEY TO BURN, cause by my kindergarten math... it was a 1,000 dollar mistake.

 

[Fappy]

Great points made and a decent episode overall, even if you did stray away from your character a bit too much there... unless this is all part of some series spanning story-arc where Jim becomes more and more level-headed to the point that he questions his own divinity.

... Nah, that'd never happen.

 

[Bujiraso]

http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/memes-extreme-facepalm.jpg
(at this being racism)

 

[MrBaskerville]

I´m very aware of the creators in all sorts of creative products, i follow music artists and i look up films because i like the directors. But i never chose to abandon something because of the creators, as long as they produced quality material. I like music by Burzum, even though the man is an idiot and probably a nazi, racist and a murderer. I like Taake, even though he also is a moron. I like Megadeth even though Dave Mustaine is raging mad and i like movies by Roman Polanski despite his unfortunate actions. While i detest them for what they have done, and i distance myself from their actions, i also separate their art from who they are. As long as their art isn´t used as a veichle to promote their views and their wrongdoings, i don´t really have a problem with enjoying it.

In some way, you aren´t really supporting Burzums extreme political viewpoints by buying something like Filozofem. Though i would feel differently if he announced that all the money gained from records sales would be used to support his political views, then i would boycut the shit out of him.

 

[LazyAza]

For anyone who has become a Jim Sterling fan (been one for several years myself) I highly recommend his weekly gaming podcast over on destructoid: http://destructoid.libsyn.com/ where he and another writer; namely Jonathan Holmes, who himself is quite entertaining and interesting talk about having explicit gay sex with each other, william dafoe, whether something is considered pedophilia or not and on rare occasion video games.

 

[algalon]

It's not racist to say Japanese games suck. It's been an ongoing topic of discussion since the release of Skyrim, and sometime before. The problem with Japanese games is that the creators are wrapped up in their own metrosexual bubbles and think their shit doesn't stink. It does. It smells cheap and plastic and like I need to blow on it for it to work. I'm saying their characters look 8 bit, a relic of a period when turn-based RPGs ruled and free worlds were relegated to GTA. This is not that time. Now games have open-ended mission or quest systems where the primary goal isn't necessarily to get to the end as quickly and efficiently as possible. The story isn't what the creator dictates to you, but what you make it. The gaming market will be an amazing place when Japanese companies get over themselves and realize their market has evolved without them. The games don't need western stylings - big men with larger chests than your average sperm whale. The base design structure needs to change. We're not watching a movie. We're not reading a novel. We're playing a videogame. The story is no longer the most important part of the game. The gameplay is.

 

[Chad Brumfield]

For several years now I haven't seen or purchased a movie with Tom Cruise or John Travolta because I'm strongly opposed to the cult of Scientology. I don't expect that my lack of cash flow into their projects is going to make a difference and shut them down. However, I do believe that if you feel opposed to someone who works on something then you have every right as a consumer to not purchase their product for whatever reason you're opposed to them for.

 

[Dastardly]

Fish, FEZ, And Supporting Art Over Artists

The past week has seen much discussion concerning FEZ and its creator, Phil Fish. It's struck up some fascinating conversations about whether or not we should support art even if we don't like the artist, and whether someone being an "asshole" ought to factor into the purchase of a product. This week's Jimquisition examines the idea, and attempts to find the middle ground of the debate.

After all, few people are more qualified on the subject of providing content while being a massive dick.

Watch Video

It's a hard thing to argue for or against the existence of what I call the "Polanski Line," or the less-serious Gibson-Cruise Index. How crazy/sick/assholish/etc. does an artist need to be before it actually becomes a bad idea to support their work? Or does it not matter in the slightest, as long as the work is good?

You're right to say there's no singular correct answer... but I'm reluctant to say that simply because there's more than one right answer, it means there's no wrong one.

I think there's a big problem when the personality in question has a bearing on the future of the medium. For instance, continuing to buy products from a company with a history of mistreating its workers can contribute to the decline of working conditions overall if we (the consumer) prove this business practice to be successful.

Of course, devil's advocate objects: By not buying it, you're also punishing the team who already endured those working conditions, and you run the risk that your "lesson" will not be received by the correct audience.

Gah. I'm torn on this. I really am.

 

[Kahunaburger]

It's less that it's racist and more that anyone who dismisses every modern game from Japan probably doesn't have a very good handle on what constitutes good gameplay.

 

[irishda]

Consumers being aware of people behind the games will mean companies like EA and Ubisoft can't get away with shitty business practices.

Except they already do get away with this cause at the end of the day people just want to play the game series they've become attached to. Take ME3, Assassin's Creed, or any number of major titles from EA and Ubisoft. How many thousands of people pissed and moaned about day one DLC, online passes, releasing an unfinished game, only for none of it to matter because those games still sold enough to buy everyone who worked on them a gold house.

Gaming has this strange culture where we'll complain about developers, the people behind the games, but we don't actually DO anything to stop them apart from petitions. Mass Effect 3 especially where untold numbers of threads were of people saying that it was bullshit that EA/Bioware would dare to release a game only to have us pay more for the ending, AND THEN SAY THEY'D STILL BUY THAT ENDING IN THE SAME BREATH.

This is the most informative era in the history of mankind, and if all that exposure to developers and publishers has done nothing to halt their practices, I honestly don't see what would. Gamers are rather stuck in a position where the only way to change anything would be for them to give up on their favorite franchises, and good luck making that happen.

 

[ex275w]

My problem isn't with the argument itself since I haven't bought a Capcom, Konami, Namco or Square game since 2007. All other companies are fine.

The problem is how they present their argument, instead of making constructive criticism or stating their opinions they make a blanket statement and just say the games are crappy.

Of course people don't have to justify their opinions nor are they wrong, but showing goodwill or expressing their worldview is more respectable than making generalizations and acting pompous towards "competition."