Gamer Entitlement
Tackling the myths and misusage of so-called Entitlement in the gaming world.
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Tackling the myths and misusage of so-called Entitlement in the gaming world.
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Jimquisition: Gamer Entitlement
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
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I'm glad to see that someone is willing to take the customer's side, when they're right.
Attacking individuals because you disagree with them is wrong.
Attacking groups of players when you disagree with them is wrong.
Calling out a company who releases a steaming pile of crap is right.
Attacking individuals because you disagree with them is wrong.
Attacking groups of players when you disagree with them is wrong.
Calling out a company who releases a steaming pile of crap is right.
Right here on the Escapist I've seen people hoping that FUN succeed in their recent attack on TB, and not just in their attempt to get his video of their game removed, but in removing every video he has ever made. Why? Because these people don't like TB.
Pretty much fits with Jim's definition of gamer entitlement, that.
Pretty much fits with Jim's definition of gamer entitlement, that.
I don't get that either. You're attacking someone's livelihood and if there's collateral damage done by the millions because of it, they don't care. They don't seem to understand how the world works, just that it revolves around them it feels like.mjharper said:
And as for the episode, well... YOU MADE A FALLACY. But you are right. However, with ME3... Well, I guess people just expected more of it. I mean, 3 whole games with 'their' shepard? Yea... And they weren't even tiny to begin with. You'd know a shitstorm would happen with an ending like that.
Thank you for being reasonable about this. I really expected worse.
I have been saying the same thing for a while now: a complaint about entitlement usually comes from an entitled person. be it a publisher that thinks they should have free reign to do whatever consumer unfriendly practice they want, the creator that thinks pleasing fans is the least important part of their job in lieu of pleasing themselves, or any social justice critic that wants everything put under the microscope but their own opinions, they're not any less people out to get everything they want than they think gamers are. From there, the attitude can entrench the entitlement because you stop treating people you want to change the opinions of as..well. people, and the angry backlash comes off as dodging the question. Why exactly did you like ME3's ending that I'm missing? Why should we be thrilled by always on DRM? Why is calling Call of Duty a Cancer, and lowering insults at those that play it Okay, but not Flappy Bird (I'm looking at you moviebob)? Why are concerns about feminist methodology unfounded? Answering questions might reach people. Acting indignant that people don't agree with you, or have different opinions and values, there's no other term but entitled, and you can't hold on to yours while expecting others to let go.
I have been saying the same thing for a while now: a complaint about entitlement usually comes from an entitled person. be it a publisher that thinks they should have free reign to do whatever consumer unfriendly practice they want, the creator that thinks pleasing fans is the least important part of their job in lieu of pleasing themselves, or any social justice critic that wants everything put under the microscope but their own opinions, they're not any less people out to get everything they want than they think gamers are. From there, the attitude can entrench the entitlement because you stop treating people you want to change the opinions of as..well. people, and the angry backlash comes off as dodging the question. Why exactly did you like ME3's ending that I'm missing? Why should we be thrilled by always on DRM? Why is calling Call of Duty a Cancer, and lowering insults at those that play it Okay, but not Flappy Bird (I'm looking at you moviebob)? Why are concerns about feminist methodology unfounded? Answering questions might reach people. Acting indignant that people don't agree with you, or have different opinions and values, there's no other term but entitled, and you can't hold on to yours while expecting others to let go.
Althought I never attack critics pertaining to mass effect's ending I do understand why other people do.
People call out(and sometimes attack) critics about mass effect's ending not because they like the ending that we don't, but because they didn't point out the flaws of the endings.
The problem got nothing to do with writing or plot or artistic intergrity and everything to do with mechanics and what works in a game. For a game that claims to be an RPG and one that span 3 titles, gamers expect the endings (at least one of them) to reflect the efforts they put into the game and their choice to matter.
It's not that the endings plot wise was bad that people disagree with, but because it was bad for a GAME, specifically an RPG TRILOGY, mechanic wise.
So in the end critics got attack not because they say "I like the ending" but because they wasn't doing their fucking job and point out the flaw of the endings from a mechanical point of view.
People call out(and sometimes attack) critics about mass effect's ending not because they like the ending that we don't, but because they didn't point out the flaws of the endings.
The problem got nothing to do with writing or plot or artistic intergrity and everything to do with mechanics and what works in a game. For a game that claims to be an RPG and one that span 3 titles, gamers expect the endings (at least one of them) to reflect the efforts they put into the game and their choice to matter.
It's not that the endings plot wise was bad that people disagree with, but because it was bad for a GAME, specifically an RPG TRILOGY, mechanic wise.
So in the end critics got attack not because they say "I like the ending" but because they wasn't doing their fucking job and point out the flaw of the endings from a mechanical point of view.
Damn straight. The ending of Mass Effect 3 was a load of horse shit and sexism is alive and well in gaming. That being said, going off at people who like games that you don't...no just don't do that. Also people like Call of Duty, can we please stop getting on people for that?
I agree with a lot of the points Jim made. I do think Publishers and their bought game critics use the term 'entitled' to alienate game reviews. But like the whole Mass Effect 3 shit? I'm not sure that WAS entitlement. As someone who was there since that game came out, having played an active part in the protest forums, I can tell you that was gamers demanding that the promises that were made by EA be kept. EA promised, what, 12+ different endings and in practice there were the infamous 3. Demanding the other 9 choices is NOT entitlement. That's just business. Call it whatever you want, but when we buy a game under the pretense of getting X, Y and Z, a contact has been offered and accepted. So when we don't get X, Y or Z and then complain...well that's not us asking for more than our due. That asking for what we paid for.
Imagine if this was any other genre or art medium. Imagine Paramount showing trailers for...I dunno, Iron Man 4. Showing an epic scene with a giant robot or spider or whatever! And you go see the movie only to find none of the scenes from the trailer are in the movie. You would be pissed off, not entitled. You would, rightfully so mind, feel ripped off!
Asking - nay - demanding game publishers keep the promises they make on games, promises made as a marketing campaign to get us to buy said games, is NOT being entitled.
Imagine if this was any other genre or art medium. Imagine Paramount showing trailers for...I dunno, Iron Man 4. Showing an epic scene with a giant robot or spider or whatever! And you go see the movie only to find none of the scenes from the trailer are in the movie. You would be pissed off, not entitled. You would, rightfully so mind, feel ripped off!
Asking - nay - demanding game publishers keep the promises they make on games, promises made as a marketing campaign to get us to buy said games, is NOT being entitled.
I completely agree with everything you said.
I also think you?re a entitled brat if you pirate a game and then complain that it isent very good.
I also think you?re a entitled brat if you pirate a game and then complain that it isent very good.
I'm not sure attacking critics or even fans of games is entitlement. Often times, it's just people being dickheads. I mean, you can be both, but hate isn't necessarily a demand someone change their opinion, it's just hate because their opinion is different. However, demanding someone be fired for not thinking the same way on a game? Yeah, all the screw you.
Thank god for you Jim! There's a big difference between making your opinion being heard and imposing your opinions on others. I think the ME3 thing was a mainly positive thing, people who felt cheated complained directly with EA and BioWare, the whole cupcake thing, for example, was great.
I think it does mostly come down the delivery of the message. As said in the video, there's nothing wrong with voicing your criticisms and opinions. In fact, fairly often, the "entitled" and the vocal critic have similar complaints, but it's in the delivery and expectation that the critic becomes the "entitled." If you take efforts to actually think about what you're saying, how to say it and what your expectations are, it's pretty easy to make complaints without coming across as an entitled petulant brat. That sort of approach is actually the basis of all professional criticism.
The other issue, as alluded to above, is expectations, and this ties into a lack of respect for a developers intentions. You are certainly in the right to voice whatever criticisms and complaints you want, but that doesn't mean you are owed a product that exactly matches your unique desires. You are owed a working game that falls in line with what the game was initially promoted to be. That's pretty much it. You can like or not like the final product but it not lining up with exactly what you want doesn't make it broken or bad, and it definitely doesn't make the company that made/published it evil. It just means that you don't like it. A developer can make whatever game they want to make with whatever IP they happen to be working on based on their own decisions and the guidance of their publisher should there be one. Just because there's a name attached to it that you're a fan of doesn't mean they have to make it based exactly on what you want or what that IP was in the past.
In short, be vocal with your complaints if that's what you want to be, but don't be a whiny brat when you do so and don't expect every game out there to be made exactly how you personally want it to be made.
The other issue, as alluded to above, is expectations, and this ties into a lack of respect for a developers intentions. You are certainly in the right to voice whatever criticisms and complaints you want, but that doesn't mean you are owed a product that exactly matches your unique desires. You are owed a working game that falls in line with what the game was initially promoted to be. That's pretty much it. You can like or not like the final product but it not lining up with exactly what you want doesn't make it broken or bad, and it definitely doesn't make the company that made/published it evil. It just means that you don't like it. A developer can make whatever game they want to make with whatever IP they happen to be working on based on their own decisions and the guidance of their publisher should there be one. Just because there's a name attached to it that you're a fan of doesn't mean they have to make it based exactly on what you want or what that IP was in the past.
In short, be vocal with your complaints if that's what you want to be, but don't be a whiny brat when you do so and don't expect every game out there to be made exactly how you personally want it to be made.
Not really. Sometimes the answer is one of the extremes sometimes it is somewhere in the middle, and sometimes it is something nobody has thought of yet because they are too busy being either extreme or an above-it-all moderate.Goliath100 said:
The thing is you can't really find out which position is correct when you have people attacking people rather than ideas or products.
I think the 'gamer entitlement' that comes out of consumers largely comes out of us consumers feeling gaining a bit of inferiority complex (and with how some companies are acting, it's becoming disturbingly more true), coupled with the ease of communication and anonymity in social media to vent frustration.
Being 'the little guy' in the story sucks, not just because it seems you don't hold a factor in a situation, but also because you don't have perspective on what's going on, either.
Us consumers[footnote]...you know, I'm starting to think that the collective terminology can be a problem too...[/footnote] will definitely speak up when we feel slighted, but merely standing up for yourself isn't proper perspective (I'm looking at you, WGDF). Knowledge of the facts, or at least more thanonetwo sides of an issue seems largely overlooked in some of the more fiery outbursts of the 'game community'.
I think we'd communicate information a bit better if we had some habits of humility; yes, as consumers, we're largely NOT going to be 'in the know' of things. Hell, for that matter, the game industry isn't, either (and could learn more than three things on that subject).
Anyway, good stuff, Jim.
Being 'the little guy' in the story sucks, not just because it seems you don't hold a factor in a situation, but also because you don't have perspective on what's going on, either.
Us consumers[footnote]...you know, I'm starting to think that the collective terminology can be a problem too...[/footnote] will definitely speak up when we feel slighted, but merely standing up for yourself isn't proper perspective (I'm looking at you, WGDF). Knowledge of the facts, or at least more than
I think we'd communicate information a bit better if we had some habits of humility; yes, as consumers, we're largely NOT going to be 'in the know' of things. Hell, for that matter, the game industry isn't, either (and could learn more than three things on that subject).
Anyway, good stuff, Jim.