With Infinity Blade 1 & 2 it pretty much breaks down unto it looks cool, it make may play well and the story maybe badass. Yet I'm not buying a fucking iPhone just to play a game because hell I really don't use my current cellphone much if at all since I work and study at home.
Jimquisition: Hardcore Hypocrisy
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
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Imagine Infinity Blade 2 on the Wii with Wii motion plus well done like in Skyward Sword.....
Ohhh God... please Nintendo, but the rights and make a final epic game for the Wii. <3
Anyways, Jim is right... again.
Ohhh God... please Nintendo, but the rights and make a final epic game for the Wii. <3
Anyways, Jim is right... again.
I hate that industry excuse when it comes to games. Some games don't need to be played at parties nor have man children saying the words fuck and ****** to be accepted. Yet the real sad thing about it people that are making games are listening to idiots that don't make or really care about games it's about stocks, bonds and numbers to those fools. Everybody is fucking nerd it just depends on what your nerd focus is.Sixcess said:
This is a good opportunity to ask not only for Jim but for all of you. Why do you need so much of the approval from others? What difference does it make to you? Do you like a game less if strangers don't approve?
I would consider Pacman, Tetris and Punchout to be casual games. And I would be aware they are an important part of history because the trend is games become deeper and more complex as we improve. That's the general direction of progress, up.
So you're point please?
In any case there is a recognisable difference in the purpose and design of a game like Pacman or Infinity Blade and LA Noire. Casual is as good a term as any to label that difference, and whilst casual games can be brilliant and fufill a different purpose than hardcore games (I wouldn't want to play Skyrim on a bus, or when I'm looking for some really mindless entertainment), non-casual games have qualities and purposes make them better. Short stories are brilliant, Asimov and Sherlock Holmes (that was chosen on popularity rather than cohesion. Saying Conan-Doyle makes me sound like I'm trying to be cleverer than I am) proved they have place in history, but it still stands that a full novel takes more work and is generally more satisfying and that is the case often enough to label a novel as 'better'
So you're point please?
In any case there is a recognisable difference in the purpose and design of a game like Pacman or Infinity Blade and LA Noire. Casual is as good a term as any to label that difference, and whilst casual games can be brilliant and fufill a different purpose than hardcore games (I wouldn't want to play Skyrim on a bus, or when I'm looking for some really mindless entertainment), non-casual games have qualities and purposes make them better. Short stories are brilliant, Asimov and Sherlock Holmes (that was chosen on popularity rather than cohesion. Saying Conan-Doyle makes me sound like I'm trying to be cleverer than I am
) proved they have place in history, but it still stands that a full novel takes more work and is generally more satisfying and that is the case often enough to label a novel as 'better'I am not sure how well the wii would handle Unreal 3.BiH-Kira said:Imagine Infinity Blade 2 on the Wii with Wii motion plus well done like in Skyward Sword.....
Ohhh God... please Nintendo, but the rights and make a final epic game for the Wii. <3
Anyways, Jim is right... again.
Doesn't quite roll off the tongue but I know a couple of people who are TV enthusiasts.mjc0961 said:
I don't see anything wrong with the term gamer but I can see how you might if that's the only thing people call you.
Maybe one day everyone will game in one way or another and it wont be practical but where not there yet.
But taking offense to the term or forcing a new term onto people is needless and a bit pretentious.
There's apparently already a lot of snobs who game from what Jim said. In fact, at this point, the amount of people who play "hardcore" games is shrinking while the "casual" gaming market is expanding like crazy. The "hardcore" snobs aren't going to feel too superior when nobody is making "their" games anymore...but then the "casual" snobs are probably not going to be pleased when publishers who are used to "hardcore gamers" sensibilities (call it forgiveness...or gullibility) try laying online passes and full price beta tests on them.
Jim, I think you'll find that Mario Kart fan was insulting you because you yourself are a massive hypocrite. You gave Mario Kart 7 a 5 for being a rehash of the same formula, which it totally is; I completely agree there. However you gave Modern Warfare a 9.5. I think someone needs to get their priorities straight.
Brilliant video. I would consider myself a hardcore gamer, but that's mostly because games are a large part of my life, even outside of actually playing them. I have no problem with people who want to pick up a controller and be able to play a game. In fact, a number of my favorite games have been mechanically 'shallow' experiences. Little Big Planet is a great example. Tetris is another.
And one more point, LBP is probably the hardest game I've played this year. That includes hard mode clears of Crysis 2, DNF and Deus Ex HR, just to name a few. Casual doesn't mean easy, it means easy to learn.
And one more point, LBP is probably the hardest game I've played this year. That includes hard mode clears of Crysis 2, DNF and Deus Ex HR, just to name a few. Casual doesn't mean easy, it means easy to learn.
I'm not going to spend the time to read the four pages of comments. But hey as an avid gamer, I love simple games sometimes. I love rpgs but sometimes playing things like Earth Defense Force, or boxing or anything else that consist of brainless killing, is just the way to go. I don't kill Call of Duty but that is because of the fans and just a broad personal preferences. I sat at Gamestop for the Battlefield release to be the only one to get Cursed Crusade. I love games and the ones I love are the ones that I don't hear some elitist saying that the game they pick is the best and only real gamers play that game.
The term hardcore gamer only brings up negative connotations among pretty much every other gamer. I have played games for 20 years and I will continue to do so until I die. I still refuse to group my self with those hateful gamers who attack anything that isn't the mainstream.
On Jim's note about 8/10. My favorite games are rated as such, Final Fantasy 6 9/10 (on its re-release with Final Fantasy 5 on Playstation 2) Earth Defense Force (6.9/10) Kengo Masters of Bushido (6/10) Gladiator Begins (6.5/10) I have played for 20 years and only my most favorite game ever is even close to a 10.
Games can be awesome in their own right and should be reviewed on their own merit, not the title.
The term hardcore gamer only brings up negative connotations among pretty much every other gamer. I have played games for 20 years and I will continue to do so until I die. I still refuse to group my self with those hateful gamers who attack anything that isn't the mainstream.
On Jim's note about 8/10. My favorite games are rated as such, Final Fantasy 6 9/10 (on its re-release with Final Fantasy 5 on Playstation 2) Earth Defense Force (6.9/10) Kengo Masters of Bushido (6/10) Gladiator Begins (6.5/10) I have played for 20 years and only my most favorite game ever is even close to a 10.
Games can be awesome in their own right and should be reviewed on their own merit, not the title.
Bioware consider cutscenes outdated? Bioware?Tin Man said:
Sounds great, only y'know, it's not going to play like that. It's going to play like every other online multiplayer shooter in existence, only not as good.
Multiplayer is a bad medium for storytelling. It's the difference between listening to an audio book read by your favourite actor and hearing the same book shouted out over a public address system by an illiterate 12 year old... who's playing Nyancat in the background.
I didn't get that idea, but it feels to me that the industry did. Maybe there's nothing more to it than them chasing those big Call of Duty bucks (e.g. CoD is the best selling franchise in the world and is mainly known for its multiplayer - ergo if we shoehorn multiplayer into our game it will become the biggest franchise in the world. And if you think that's ridiculous reasoning just look at the money that has been poured into cranking out WoW knock-offs in the futile hope of stealing Blizzard's business.)
Actually, I kinda hope that is the case, because the alternative is that the games industry has a massive inferiority complex and is ashamed of its players. Multiplayer games are played by happy smiling people in well lit living rooms (at least according to the ads.) Singleplayer is played by unsocialised nerds in dank basements (I'd say according to the ads but when was the last time you saw an ad for a single player game that showed someone actually playing it?)
My point, overall, is that whilst there is nothing inherently wrong with 'casual' games and/or non-traditional platforms for those games, there is a danger that the industry will fall so in love with the idea of broadening their audience that they will forget what used to be their core audience - the traditional console and pc gamers.
Bioware are cramming multiplayer into everything that moves right now. Valve said a while back that they're unlikely to ever make a solely single player game again. And just as a game designed as a multiplayer title cannot provide an equally satisfying single player experience, nor can games designed for a casual audience provide the experience that the, for want of a better word, hardcore audience are looking for. Not as the norm at least.
For some people, or me at least, its not so much the iOS games that are the problem, as it is the systems. First you have the iPhone, which would require a switch in cell phone service just to play games, and second is the iPad which costs way too much (before you call hypocrisy, I don't have a PS3 for the same reason). The clips you showed of this game make it look great, and I would love to play it, but unfortunately it was only released for the "casual" iOS market, on systems I don't feel are worth buying. This is the problem with "casual" gamers, or rather new gamers, they don't realize that their being ripped off, and those of us who do realize are missing out on good games.
It's important to note not all Hardcore Gamers are idiots like this. I consider myself a Hardcore Gamer and enjoy iPhone games all the time. In fact, I have clocked in over 70 hours in Infinity Blade alone. I enjoy both sterile reboots and games that copy classic formulas in new and interesting ways.
I think the term Hardcore Gamer should be linked to someone who is heavily invested in the gaming scene and who is also skilled at all games, rather than someone who refuses change or refuses to accept when change is needed.
I think the term Hardcore Gamer should be linked to someone who is heavily invested in the gaming scene and who is also skilled at all games, rather than someone who refuses change or refuses to accept when change is needed.
Legend Of Zelda Skyward Sword? Red Steel 2? There are a few out there, surprisingly a lot for the wii, considering how it is always shown as a social multiplayer console. I for one miss Singleplayer games, as it is often those ones that have the most replayability due to more focus on the writing, building a fun game world etc etcSixcess said:
Where I Came from? I came from Nethack, Civilization, and Close Combat; and a less casual set of games there has rarely been. Heck, my mother used to play ZZT on weekends.
And tell me, would you not rather have Battle for Wesnoth, The Bard's Tale, or Aralon - full, open, deep, rewarding experiences - than pretty yet ultimately limited experiences like Infinity Blade?
By all means, keep making Infinity Blades. But do not let them take over. Do not pull a Microsoft here, replacing all your Skyrims, STALKERs, and Half-Lifes with Kinectimals, angry birds, and Fruit Ninja clones. This is the root of the backlash, I feel, and it is vital not to ignore it - that while the extent and vehement nature of the anger may be unwarranted, our "hardcore" games of the modern age may well be superseded by an industry eager to chase this new golden cow. Remember, fellow gamers, the story of the PC, utterly abandoned by Microsoft when they had a more lucrative system. Microsoft are back, sure, but they're back for the casuals, make no mistake. Take note of the fate of gaming on the Wii - buried in shovelware, six feet under in under six years. Watch Microsoft and Sony focus on making their consoles family friendly at the expense of their "hardcore" contingent, and realize that this is not a question of coexistence, but of survival.
And tell me, would you not rather have Battle for Wesnoth, The Bard's Tale, or Aralon - full, open, deep, rewarding experiences - than pretty yet ultimately limited experiences like Infinity Blade?
By all means, keep making Infinity Blades. But do not let them take over. Do not pull a Microsoft here, replacing all your Skyrims, STALKERs, and Half-Lifes with Kinectimals, angry birds, and Fruit Ninja clones. This is the root of the backlash, I feel, and it is vital not to ignore it - that while the extent and vehement nature of the anger may be unwarranted, our "hardcore" games of the modern age may well be superseded by an industry eager to chase this new golden cow. Remember, fellow gamers, the story of the PC, utterly abandoned by Microsoft when they had a more lucrative system. Microsoft are back, sure, but they're back for the casuals, make no mistake. Take note of the fate of gaming on the Wii - buried in shovelware, six feet under in under six years. Watch Microsoft and Sony focus on making their consoles family friendly at the expense of their "hardcore" contingent, and realize that this is not a question of coexistence, but of survival.
PC master race senses are tingling...EverythingIncredible said:
Because all the best games have only been PC games right?
I will, when IOS gaming has been around long enough to establish itself as a true gaming platform. Those games weren't exactly early in the PC's life cycle.EverythingIncredible said:
This is the funny thing though, Nintendo's hardcore market was basically the fans of first party franchises. The Marios, the Zeldas. That was all that could keep fans due to the lack of decent 3rd party support and by extension, 3rd party hardcore games.omicron1 said:
Microsoft and Sony aren't as reliant and don't have as big a first party status, so keeping 3rd parties is in there very survival and I seriously doubt that they could trip up like Nintendo did.
You honestly believe that? You really think that no console game has ever equaled the complexity of a PC game?EverythingIncredible said:
That's just...
The...
Forget it.