Jimquisition: I'm Going To Murder Your Children

[axlryder]

People harassing her are idiots.

That said, the Something Awful let's play thread was easily the most entertaining thing I've read in a long time and probably the most powerful piece of criticism anyone could levy at a particular writing team. Why won't people learn? If you feel the need to take the piss out of someone, just make fun of their work, don't threaten the person who made it or write a bunch of vitriolic shit about them (of course the thread itself is guilty of partaking in the fairly directed Helpler hating, so it's not a perfect example).

 

[Nurb]

I knew it, I called it the the moment I heard the story. Jim Sterling would make a video, finger waggling at all of us for harassing her.

She left Bioware to write a book, EA informed her of the threats after the fact. Though that doesn't mean they shouldn't punish the stupid trolls who threaten people directly. I also called this would be a bigger deal because people would say it's because she's a woman. "Punish a woman" Were the exact words here.

In case people are new to gaming in the last 30 years, trolls and extremely disturbed people are part of the sub-culture. A very small, vocal minority that tend to get a lot of attention, but a minority nevertheless, and I'm getting sick of blanket judgements on the whole sub-culture by being lectured like ALL gamers are like this. No, gamers are not at fault here, a few assholes are.

Here's how these articles and videos are sounding just because of a minority: "Some white people in hoods burned a cross on a new black neighbor's lawn. What's wrong with all the white people in this country being such racist children? White people really need to behave themselves if they allow this to happen."

I don't see an angry video being made every time a screechy 12 year old screaming "******" or "******" over a multiplayer game. Are people uncaring about the feelings of homosexuals and people of color... or do we realize that's not a threat because we know that sort of person doesn't make up a significant portion of the gaming culture?

 

[mjc0961]

You kind of lost me at the defense of Phil Fish. Yeah, nothing justifies threatening to kill him or his family. But people (also I would like to point out that I was not one of the people doing it) weren't doing that because he was racist or because he looked like an asshole him a movie. Phil Fish told Marcus Beer to kill himself because he didn't like Beer's video talking about him. And much like you say in this video, Beer being a douche in said video doesn't justify Fish doing that. Telling someone to kill themselves is right up there with direct threats on the scale of scumminess. Much like your (and mine, actually) reaction to people threatening to kill a developer's children is "Fuck you.", my reaction to Phil Fish telling Beer to kill himself is also "Fuck you."

Basically, Phil Fish is just as big a piece of shit as everyone you're insulting in this video. Don't try to pretend he isn't. The people who threatened to kill Fish and his family are also shit, I do not deny that or try to justify their actions at all. I just want to point out that Phil Fish is just as big a piece of shit as they are.

Oh, and one more thing. If people could stop with the rape threats every time it's a woman who did something you don't like, that'd be swell. Threatening rape doesn't make you clever, it just makes you an asshole.

In short, the three things everyone needs to stop doing whenever they disagree with someone or dislike something someone did:
Death threats
Suggesting suicide
Rape threats

No matter which one you think is the worst and which one you think is the least horrible, I think we can all agree that anyone who does any of them is a fairly shitty human being.

 

[tonka7794]

yo jim have you lost weight looking good bruda

 

[Brian Tams]

What I find disturbing is that an anonymous person in Canada can read a ranting Facebook entry from a kid in America and somehow get this kid thrown into jail, but high profile developers and people with big companies at their back can't manage to get any of these idiots jailed for their threats..

Well, the kid was using a facebook account under his real name, as well as providing a picture and home address, making identification extremely easy.

These idiots are generally under accounts with names like JKBrah347 or some equally idiotic stuff. So, identification can be a bit of a problem. I also no jack shit about how things like IP tracking works, so I don't know if that could work.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

There was a lot wrong with Dragon Age 2 but I don't even think the writing was one of them. At least not one of the major ones. EA's one year deadline was almost exclusively to blame for Dragon Age IIs quality. That's why they didn't have time to model more than one robust in-game town. That's why they had to reuse the spider cave as the bandit's lair as the mage's hideout. She was probably given very strict parameters to write in to begin with. Not that this is justified at all regardless, but they're not even threatening the person that ruined the game.

 

[grey_space]

Good episode Jim. Speaking as a man who has had his life and family threatened, I can't agree with you more. It's never ok, and it should always be pointed out repeatedly until anyone who indulges in this behaviour is vilified. too often in this society does this not happen.

Nobody deserves to have their family threatened.

As for guys who are so desperately trying to turn this into a misandry/double standards/sexism thread;

That is so not the point guys. People threatened to kill her CHILDREN.

Think about that for a minute. I mean really think.

HER CHILDREN.

This whole topic is so not about your (imagined) issues.

Sheesh.

 

[kael013]

Also if people don't willing resign after ruining a game without poor writing and continue to ruin other games then the only way left to "save" these games is to force this person to quit. Perhaps if people took more responsibility for producing poor quality products this wouldn't happen.

And that's what entitlement sounds like. "I the customer demand that you lose your job because I chose to buy something and don't feel like blaming myself for not researching my purchases better".

How exactly do you research a product that hasn't been released and all the professional reviewers have claimed is the best game of all time?

Also you've ignored that I said only writers who make games with bad stories should resign and instead decided to replace it with a strawman.

Oh, I don't know. Maybe wait until it's been released and read lots of user reviews?

As for the whole "writers who write bad stories should resign" thing: can you give me an example of a bad story? Odds are there are people out there who enjoyed it. The whole topic is subjective. If your idea ever got instated all it would do is alienate not only customers (because there were no longer any games with stories that interested them), but also the creators: "Yeah, I got a job as a videogame writer! Now all I have to do is make sure the majority likes every story I ever write and never screw up even once or else I lose my job! Isn't my career great?" /sarcasm. New writers would stay away from the business because they want a stable job, those in the business would not risk anything too creative for fear it would be poorly received (resulting in them getting fired), and the customer would end up getting nothing but games with stories like the one before it and the one before that and the one before [i/]that[/i] because that's what the majority likes, dammit!

OT: I agree with this video. As for those of you saying this is "just an internet thing" and "it happens" I'd like to tell you this: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (the quote's a little extreme in context, I'll admit, but it does apply) Start replying to the people who make these threats [i/]en masse[/i] and tell them that shit's not tolerable. Make examples of them; lift them up so others can see them, point to them, and say "this is NOT ok and if you do this you are the lowest scum imaginable." Not only does this relegate these people to the minority in the public's eye (and shows the majority as decent folk), but it also deters others from following suit. Sure attention whores will still do it, you can't get rid of all the filth in a community, but it will make the ones who write that filth out of anger think twice.

Just my two cents on what should be done. Can't wait to see that dildo.

 

[Mastemat]

did... something else happen....?
Did I miss something....
Cause..........
.....
...
...
...
I stopped lurking in the Bioware social site... after that bullshit happened with Jennifer...
iirc, all she said was that she plays RPGs more for the story than the combat, and finds the drudgery of having to fight through the mobs of enemies to get to the plot something she doesn't care for and wouldn't mind if an RPG had a "skip the combat" button....
Which I don't agree with, because I feel that's half of the RPG experience... but damned if DA2 didn't make me wish for a "skip the combat" button.
This is years old.... have people still not gotten over the fact that this WRITER favors WRITING over combat?
Dear GOD. The inane childishness in people.
Who cares if she doesn't like combat in RPGs?? That's not only just an opinion.... it's a VALID one. Because RPGs and HALF STORY.
Honestly....
Oh... she quit...............
:|

 

[xaszatm]

Also if people don't willing resign after ruining a game without poor writing and continue to ruin other games then the only way left to "save" these games is to force this person to quit. Perhaps if people took more responsibility for producing poor quality products this wouldn't happen.

1. Jenifer wasn't the lead writer behind those projects. She was high up, to be sure, but if you're disappointed in the story you should be demanding David Gaider's retirement, not hers (I'm assuming you're talking about Dragon Age 2 because she was a writer for only that and the original Dragon Age).

2. Even if you didn't like her sections of the story, that doesn't mean other people didn't. Sure, a lot of people didn't like Dragon Age 2. I know quite a few who did. Should we alienate those with different tastes.

3. Even if everything wrong with Bioware's writing was her fault, why are we even saying that her children being threatened is the logical conclusion? Death threats that specifically named her children and mentioned what school they were in is the appropriate response to bad writing? Really!?!

 

[RJ Dalton]

This is a much broader problem than just gaming, though. I've seen a lot of TV shows with dedicated fanbases who then turn on the show's creators when they start to do things differently which has prevented the writers and producers from being willing to expand and explore the potential of their IPs when that kind of expansion and exploration was desperately needed.
I definitely think there's a lot of shitty writers in the media industry these days, but as a culture, we've all become too fixated on our own wants in such a way that it's actually making things worse. Nobody seems to understand that things don't have to be exactly the way you want them to be to be good. Quite often, things *can't* be exactly the way you want them to be if they are going to be good. You fans are not creators. You don't know the what goes into the process of creating a good game, good tv show, good movie, or good book. You haven't spent hours trying to pick out exactly the right words, framing the shot exactly correct, fine-tuning the mechanic to exactly what is needed to get across what the audience needs to understand to follow the creative work. By all means, express your opinions, feel free to tell people how you think it should have been, but don't go threatening people if they don't do exactly what you need. You are not a writer. You are not a creator. You are an audience. Your role in the creative process is to appreciate the work - or not - and enrich its existence with discussion.
And if you really can't tolerate what is being done, then why don't you get off your lazy ass and make your own stuff? Me? I write fiction. I've dedicated my life to studying the art of the written word and I know how hard it is to do it well. You spoiled brats don't know how difficult it is to produce quality entertainment in any medium and you've got no right to start demanding everything be done the way you want it to, and you sure as hell don't have the right to threaten people and their families just because you don't agree with them.

 

[Makabriel]

What I find disturbing is that an anonymous person in Canada can read a ranting Facebook entry from a kid in America and somehow get this kid thrown into jail, but high profile developers and people with big companies at their back can't manage to get any of these idiots jailed for their threats..

Well, the kid was using a facebook account under his real name, as well as providing a picture and home address, making identification extremely easy.

These idiots are generally under accounts with names like JKBrah347 or some equally idiotic stuff. So, identification can be a bit of a problem. I also no jack shit about how things like IP tracking works, so I don't know if that could work.

That's why I added the "Big companies at their backs" part. These companies have money.. and lawyers .. and clout. It would send a BIG message to these idiots if they suddenly find themselves on the wrong end of Big Bubba.

 

[Ohlookit'sMatty]

You that old saying "This is why we can't have nice things!" It applies here // It really applies here! For the love of the Unholy Gods, what is wrong with some people?!?

There are two redeeming points out of this video, 1. Americans take dead threats Very seriously, so I hope those people get what's coming to them and B. I do like Jim's little promise at the end, if we are all nice for the next 7days (which should not be that hard people) we get to his is dragon dildo

-M

 

[Toilet]

Fans are rabid and insane in every medium and you only have to descend into the retard realms of Tumblr to know that. Remember when George Lucas got death threats concerning the new trilogy? Remember when Hideaki Anno got death threats about how he ended Eva? The only difference between video games and any other entertainment industry is how the creators are so quick to shift blame to the consumer. People don't like your product? Clearly they're arrogant entitled children, they're the ones at fault. You aren't to blame at all despite having worse business practices than any other entertainment medium. The fans can't grow up but the developers can, either ignore it and take it professionally like all the other creators out there or throw a hissy fit, insult your fanbase and quit like Phil Fish and Hepler.

The funny thing is that if you are a video game writer there is no else place to go, it's as low as you can go career wise. If you write full time for video games then you probably failed at every other attempt at professional writing.

 

[generals3]

All i gotta ask after seeing this video is how can the action of a minority in any way be representative of "gamers" ?! This video was probably the worst way to talk about this issue.

 

[Ipsen]

But it doesn't, because it has nothing to do with game culture, not provably anyway.

A female politician in the UK who had the audacity to suggest it'd be a good idea to have more women on our currency was threatened with rape. Mary Beard, a lady who is a classicist and TV presenter was sent bomb threats for speaking up about the previous issue as well as others.

Neither of those, nor other many similar stories have anything to do with gaming whatsoever. It is the perceived anonymity that comes with posting online that causes most of these kinds of things. People cannot see their victim, often post under an alias and frequently do not think of the consequences.

The idea that gaming as a hobby might have something to do with this is no different from the people who blame rock music for causing drug addiction and violent media for causing mass shootings.

That is not to say we shouldn't care when people do it, or deal with it, but we should be looking at the root cause, not pointing the finger at one of the many areas where such behaviour occurs. Because if gaming did not exist, the people who sent those threats would still almost certainly be the same kind of people who did the things I linked above.

I think Jim is absolutely spot on with what he says, it is a problem for gaming in the sense that these people are causing issues, and we should deal with it. But it isn't because of gamers or gaming. We need to be looking at what causes to people behave like this in the first place, and how to deal with it. Not point fingers at gaming, because that is not really any different from what the politicians did after the mass shootings, and that was widely criticised.

I'll disagree with this not being about game culture. In your examples, taking a certain perspective, they can highlight problems of politics and/or TV in and of themselves. They all have a connection (a woman making a stand), but it doesn't, and might not need to be made to find the route of the issue (not saying that's necessarily the case with Hepler here, but just to get that point on the table).

But even OT, these threats come back to bite all of 'us, the gaming community', if even for the simple fact that the message of a threat means something to all people, but in different ways. In my eyes, you can forget about what everyone outside of the game community thinks, this becomes OUR problem because we're threatening developers, the ONLY people who make the games that we enjoy and bind this group of people together. That AT LEAST earns them a spot somewhere in the game community circle. In this video, I think Jim was considering the possibility of cutting these people off from the community (which comes with its own problems).

TLDR; This is a people problem (as you have stated).

But you DID mention 'game culture', which brings about a new question: Do games control game culture, or do gamers control game culture?