Jimquisition: I'm Going To Murder Your Children

[Fifty-One]

You do realise you're also threatening people, which makes you as bad as them.

I'm always amazed that people who condemn violence seem to believe that that it's acceptable when they're inflicting this violence.

Based on the quote I see no threat of violence made here. Just a wish that the people who threatened her children are held accountable by law in some form or fashion. I would agree as well.

 

[Sheo_Dagana]

I wasn't really shocked to hear about these death threats, considering that Casey Hudson also received death threats for his involvement in Mass Effect 3. Is it incredibly sad that I'm not shocked? Hell, I've seen Jim threatened with violence on his own Twitter feed as well as Adam Sessler just because he gave God of War: Ascension a 3/5.

It says a lot about gamers at large when people read about this sort of thing. Yes, people who threaten those working in the industry with violence are a very small part of the community and do not represent gamers as a whole, but they can still make the majority look bad. Pick any number of issues out there today and you can see that to be true.

If your life is so bad that you continue to let a game that came out years ago or it's review score affect your daily life, then I'd say that you have more problems than the people you're going after - that includes the people that have negative things to say about Jennifer Heppler or anyone else that may have dared to disagree with them. Dragon Age 2 already happened. Mass Effect's ending is a thing. Someone gave the Last of Us less than a 9. DmC exists and is available for purchase. It's over. Move on.

 

[Vault Citizen]

What the fuck is wrong with some people. Sending threats like that to her... I hope they got legal trouble on their ass. Scare the little shits.

You do realise you're also threatening people, which makes you as bad as them.

I'm always amazed that people who condemn violence seem to believe that that it's acceptable when they're inflicting this violence.

Actually that person is just hopin that bad things happen to them, it would only be a theat if they claimed that they would inflict bad things on the person they were talking about or claim to have others inflict bad things upon them.

 

[neppakyo]

She's not a very good writer, and DA2 was all around a horrible piece of shit. But idiots threatening her is just stupid. No need for that at all.

It's best to not buy anything she's written or ignore her, no need for nonsense like this.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

I'm Going To Murder Your Children

If your first response to a game creator doing something you dislike is to get personal with them and threaten their families, you waive any righteousness you might have had. Seems like a no-brainer ... yet so few of us seem to have brains.

Watch Video

Jim, did you ever hear about MP Stella Creasy, who was threatened to rape on Twitter because she campaigned to have novelist Jane Austen put on the £10 note. these f#cks need some perspective in their lives

 

[NinjazInside]

This world is just essentially fighting a rot that it will never be rid of at least in most of our lifetimes, i was thinking about this after the video. Humans generally want to group together and form a pseudo group identity, whether that be in family units or Nation scale it's all the same, anyone that harms/threatens one in the group, affects the whole group and is thus punished by the group and rightly so especially if they are from that group. Life is terrible in a sense that no matter how hard we try there will always be people that love to walk all over other peoples lives, hell im trying to help someone who has been emotionally trodden into the ground for 2 years now. There are a lot of manipulative and spiteful people out there who can not either express an opinion in an acceptable manner, or form an actually sound opinion that it must be backed up with threats to give it 'Validity'. I fear for the day that we meet a species that is not our own, what kind of bloody image will we present then, as well as our past.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

You're literally quoting, word for word, the problem that arises with the bystander effect. There's a reason why the report button exists on everyone's screen dude, and that's because we trust the community to use it when they see something like that.

We're not talking about a crime here where the "victim" has no means of dealing with the situation, and must rely on bystanders. It's not so much the Bystander Effect as it is the Deal with it yourself Effect.

Diffusion and/or deflection of responsibility in a public setting. That is the exact definition of the Bystander Effect. The victim doesn't have to be completely helpless for the bystander to have to step in and this response only serves the message I stated earlier about gamers being horrendously apathetic to one another.

 

[tardcore]

Yeah, I noticed you don't condone violence, and that's good. It means you have a sense of morality. But your morality is wasted if you choose to allow those who don't have any morals to run rampant. I'm sorry, but its true. Because we are apathetic. When someone tells us that they slept with our mother or calls us a fag, do you think the majority of the gaming community mutes and reports? Of course not. Insult throwing is considered to be a stereotype among gamers. We don't like it, but we passively sit by and let it continue, even when we're the targets.

As I've stated before, this part of "we" doesn't do that. And its not your right to prejudge and presume that anyone does. The fact that you are doing so does not make you any better morally than someone who uses a blanket bias or prejudice to demonize an entire demographic of people. Not a single person posting here has said that someone has the right to threaten the lives of others or those of their children or that its a good and positive thing. If they had you might have an argument. As they haven't you are using your own angry prejudices to create in your own mind a group of nonexistent criminals.

Because you should be concerned, you shouldn't be arguing how I'm being too harsh on a community that is so fragmented and lacks empathy for one another. I'm telling you to turn on people who don't do anything, I'm asking you to judge and turn on people who are being ignored because people don't anything. Encouraging civic duty is kinda part of my job, both in reality and on the web.

Really I shouldn't be arguing, so I have no free will in this matter? That's how dictatorships start, mate. You are demanding I do only what you tell me and turn on people who don't think like you do and attack them with ridicule and derision. Well if that isn't a text book definition of bullying I just don't know what the fuck is. Looks like my earlier accusation of you wanting to create a mindless internet lynch mob was spot on.

Because as sad as it is, you don't make progress pointing out the positive stuff. You need recognize the problems of the gaming community, and one of them happens to be an aggressive player base.

Wow. Really? Only through negativity can you get anything done? Well then fuck Gandhi, Fuck Martin Luther King. Guess I'll just go burn the books about them and start reading Mein Kampf. Thanks for justifying that people uses such ultimate negetivities as death threats, because apparently according to you, there is no such thing as positive reinforcement. So no one should bother trying to criticize constructively, or even civilly for that matter.

Good. I'm human. I'm not perfect and I hold differing opinions from others. I'm not a paragon and you should not see me that way. I will set an example on how a person should act with others on this site, but I'm not going to sit by and not let my opinion be heard.

Well that's interesting because back up the post that's exactly what you told me I wasn't allowed to fucking do.

I agree, I may have been a tad overemotional on this topic. You'll have to excuse me on that, since bullying has been and always will be a serious problem in my view. But regardless, sometimes you need to go with your gut. If something in the community has made me so angry that it overrode logic, it must be a serious issue. Either that, or I'm a Sith.

Quite likely the same justification the warped individuals who thought it was ok to threaten to kill someone's kids tell themselves.

Sorry but I don't feel that just focusing on the negatives without enforcing them with positives gets you anywhere. It just breeds anger angst hatred and contempt. All this weeks video and these subsequent posts have served to do is to alienate and demonize people with which you share common ground. The shared belief that its wrong to threaten to kill someone or their children. If this is what can be expected from the future of The Escapist then count me out. As apparently it isn't the website of keen open-minded intellectuals I thought it was.

 

[wulf3n]

Diffusion and/or deflection of responsibility in a public setting.

What responsibility?

The victim doesn't have to be completely helpless for the bystander to have to step in and this response only serves the message I stated earlier about gamers being horrendously apathetic to one another.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't want people getting offended or flagging posts on my behalf. If I being the offended party haven't flagged the post, then I have a reason for doing so. Flagging a post for me only serves to undermine my decision.

I don't see it as apathy, more stay out of my business and I'll stay out of yours. I don't flag post on behalf of others because I don't wont people flagging posts on behalf of me.

 

[The_Great_Galendo]

This is a little bit off-topic, but does anyone know the name of that platform game where you rotate the screen that Jim shows in the video? I don't play many platformers, but that one seems interesting enough to be worth checking out.

 

[LetalisK]

This is a little bit off-topic, but does anyone know the name of that platform game where you rotate the screen that Jim shows in the video? I don't play many platformers, but that one seems interesting enough to be worth checking out.

Fez

Because it still shouldn't be tolerated. If you're being an asshole to everyone, you should still be punished for being an asshole. How do you expect the problem users to learn or finally be cast out if no one points them out? Admins run entirely on reports, we can't see the posts unless someone stands up and points them out.

Funny thing, and completely unrelated mind; over here you can only be persecuted for theft if the person you stole from reports you - even if there are witnesses, the person who was actually harmed needs to give the green light.

Uh, this is more or less just trivia.

Because, honestly, people who make death threats over the internet and get raging boners over making such threats are really, really, really not nice people at all.

Out of curiosity, is that true of other crimes like assault? For example, if someone were to punch you?

 

[Aardvaarkman]

She has no right to write a book on game narratives, because she doesn't even GET the narrative power of the medium, she's basically openly stated such.

Yeah, because the Constitution states that only certain people should be allowed to write books under certain conditions.

Have you ever read a book? Have you been to a bookstore? Are you aware of how many terrible, unbelievably bad books have been published since the invention of the printing press?

I would think that you'd understand that I was using it in the same vein as I would if I said "X person does not have the right to lecture on this subject because they are themselves unqualified".
But no.

Obviously she has all legal right to say whatever she wants.

But you clearly wrote that she had no right to write such a book. There was no indication of sarcasm or irony.

How else was I supposed to interpret it? Do you regularly write things that you don't mean? How about trying to write what you actually mean to say in the future?

 

[maddawg IAJI]

I can only speak for myself, but I don't want people getting offended or flagging posts on my behalf. If I being the offended party haven't flagged the post, then I have a reason for doing so. Flagging a post for me only serves to undermine my decision.

I don't see it as apathy, more stay out of my business and I'll stay out of yours. I don't flag post on behalf of others because I don't wont people flagging posts on behalf of me.

Its not about you. It doesn't matter if you choose to flag the post or not, a lot of people don't report threats of violence or insults, that doesn't mean nothing gets done. A person threatening or harassing you may be harassing multiple people either prior or after you. Its the community's decision to deal with problem posters, regardless of your decision.

As I've stated before, this part of "we" doesn't do that. And its not your right to prejudge and presume that anyone does. The fact that you are doing so does not make you any better morally than someone who uses a blanket bias or prejudice to demonize an entire demographic of people.

Did I say the majority of this community was harrassing others? Did I say that the members of this community insult people in online play? No, I don't believe I did. What I did say was that the vast majority of gamers do nothing to curtail it and that is just as bad.

Not a single person posting here has said that someone has the right to threaten the lives of others or those of their children or that its a good and positive thing. If they had you might have an argument.

Well no, not in this thread....But I did just come back from seeing someone state that we should euthanize the mentally ill.

That's how dictatorships start, mate.

Actually, most dictatorships start with a military coup and I'm afraid my subterrain mole army is in no shape for that quite yet.

You are demanding I do only what you tell me and turn on people who don't think like you do and attack them with ridicule and derision.

No, I'm not, I'm asking you to take a moment and bring attention to those who mean ill will to the others around you. You know, because as a community, that's what we should do. Are you telling me you don't call the cops if someone is screaming and threatening your neighbor?

Well if that isn't a text book definition of bullying I just don't know what the fuck is.

Did you just call me a bully because I asked for a community that rejects the extremists? Really?

Looks like my earlier accusation of you wanting to create a mindless internet lynch mob was spot on.

Yep, you got me, everyone break out the torches. Lets go hang someone tonight /sarcasm.

Wow. Really? Only through negativity can you get anything done?

No! Fuck man, only through negativity will anything be brought to attention.

Well then fuck Gandhi, Fuck Martin Luther King.

What textbooks are you reading? Do you think Gandhi enjoyed a foriegn ruled India? Do you think Martin Luther enjoyed sitting in a Blacks-Only bar? Dude, not only are you misinterpreting what I said, you're misinterpreting history and that's pretty tough. They saw the negatives of their existence as a community and they went out and they changed it. They denounced violence and encouraged community solidarity against those who would threaten them. Ghandi encourgaed a self-sustained India, MLK encouraged people to sit at white only areas. They refused to be bullied by others and stood fast in a single community, empathetic to one another.

Guess I'll just go burn the books about them and start reading Mein Kampf.

And now I'm encouraging Nazism apparently! ZE HEIL!

Thanks for justifying that people uses such ultimate negetivities as death threats, because apparently according to you, there is no such thing as positive reinforcement.

Where the fuck did I say that? Seriously, are you like in an alternate dimension or you getting my slightly more evil twin's messages? I said postive reinforcements does not encourage progress as quickly as pointing out the negative aspects of our society? Positive reinforcements is what allowed Stalinism to survive for so long, because the people refused to accept the problems with it and instead believed they were best off.

Well that's interesting because back up the post that's exactly what you told me I wasn't allowed to fucking do.

No, I said you shouldn't be arguing against a proven positive aspect. Never told you to stop, just thought you were acting silly for doing so.

Quite likely the same justification the warped individuals who thought it was ok to threaten to kill someone's kids tell themselves.

You got me there, not gonna lie. That was a good one. Probably also the same justification that you used to call me a nazi, a bully and a dictator. Seriously mate, I think you're also getting a tad bit overemotional.

Sorry but I don't feel that just focusing on the negatives without enforcing them with positives gets you anywhere. It just breeds anger angst hatred and contempt.

Mind telling me how encouraging one another to report posters who bully or threaten others and to encourage an overall solidified community of gamer is not a positive aspect?

All this weeks video and these subsequent posts have served to do is to alienate and demonize people with which you share common ground. The shared belief that its wrong to threaten to kill someone or their children.

How have I alienated them? The only people I have complained about besides the extremists and bullies, are the ones who do nothing to stop the extremists and bullies and even I'm guilty of falling into that catagory.

If this is what can be expected from the future of The Escapist then count me out. As apparently it isn't the website of keen open-minded intellectuals I thought it was.

Fine, not gonna stop ya. You've already proven you're just gonna twist whatever I write anyways and I'll admit, its kinda getting really annoying.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

This is a little bit off-topic, but does anyone know the name of that platform game where you rotate the screen that Jim shows in the video? I don't play many platformers, but that one seems interesting enough to be worth checking out.

That would be Fez.

 

[wulf3n]

A person threatening or harassing you may be harassing multiple people either prior or after you.

Then those people can report the offence targeted at them

Its the community's decision to deal with problem posters, regardless of your decision.

Are we not free to choose how we as individuals "deal" with problem posters?

If I choose to leave said insult freely and easily available for all to see, to show what type of "person" the offender is, then someone else decides to flag said post hiding it from the discussion, they've taken away my choice.

 

[omnifarious]

The Phil Fish harassment. It wasn't just his remark about japanese games or his actions in IGTM. It was his actions since Fez was released where he has a "Holier than thou" attitude.

To be fair, Phil Fish was taking the harassment long BEFORE Fez was actually released. While I agree with you his actions after Fez's release were both colorful and lacking of taste, I also understand his need to vent five years worth of frustration.

And at the risk of repeating myself, he should have taking a boxing class or something because there's no winning an argument over the internet...

I recall two reasons people were harassing Fish before Fez's release.

The first reason was that his "Upcoming XBLA platformer Fez won the Seamus McNally Grand Prize, the top honour at last night's Independent Games Festival (IGF) Awards at GDC in San Francisco." Emphasis on the upcoming. He won an award for an unreleased game, which makes little to no sense to me.

Source 1: http://www.edge-online.com/news/gdc-2012-fez-wins-grand-prize-igf-awards/

Second, he later tweeted about winning said award in an incredibly offensive way that came off as abrasive. "i just won the grand prize at IGG tonight. suck my dick. choke on it."

Source 2: http://thewiredfishnetwork.com/2012/03/09/fez-creator-talks-smack-about-japanese-games-major-downplay-on-twitter/

Now, death threats are never warranted, but when you act like an abrasive jerk, you should expect the internet to respond in kind.

As far as your first point...
Took a bit of searching to find this, but from what I gather Fez won the award in March of 2012, a month at the very most before it was released, though it did win other minor rewards in '08 and '11. From where I sit, if Fez's first functioning prototype was that good he must have been doing something right to get that much praise. I think it's also worth mentioning that Fez was actually a finished product, but not yet released to the public. I don't know the full details of how distribution works myself, so I can definitely understand your confusion in this. Still, that was a good point you made there, but again, even with all that I'm still not sold on to how that can warrant five years of putting up with harsh negative feedback.

As far as your second point...
I have no disagreement with you that Fish did act in such a manor. However, and bear in mind this is just a bit of nitpicking, part of what you said works to help and hurt your point at the same time. Telling someone to perform fellatio to the point of asphyxiation is no better than calling someone an "arrogant schmuck". The guy might have been joking with his comment to Fish, but that in and of itself presents two problems. The first being that you'd have to tag your own comment as being sarcastic, and the second because it's far too easy to say "I was just joking".

Text on the internet has only implied emotion and at the end of the day we all have to realize that the message given is not always the same message received. And from what I saw in that twitter exchange, no one came out a saint.

 

[Erttheking]

A person threatening or harassing you may be harassing multiple people either prior or after you.

Then those people can report the offence targeted at them

Its the community's decision to deal with problem posters, regardless of your decision.

Are we not free to choose how we as individuals "deal" with problem posters?

If I choose to leave said insult freely and easily available for all to see, to show what type of "person" the offender is, then someone else decides to flag said post hiding it from the discussion, they've taken away my choice.

Frankly that sounds like a bystander effect. "It's not MY problem, why should I help?" Simple, to help make the community a better place and because helping other people out is just the right thing to do.

What choice? You don't write the code of conduct. You didn't decide how infractions would be dealt with on this website. That's like saying that when you report someone for robbery and they get fined instead of publicly ousted as a robber when you wanted the second that your choice was taken away.

 

[KOMega]

I heard about some of the complaints around that Fish guy, but I didn't hear much about the other stories mentioned.
Wow, people can really get upset about things in the gaming community.

Anyways, I heard the important message and everything, but by the end of the video I just keep thinking back to 'dildos' now XD

 

[maddawg IAJI]

Are we not free to choose how we as individuals "deal" with problem posters?

If I choose to leave said insult freely and easily available for all to see, to show what type of "person" the offender is, then someone else decides to flag said post hiding it from the discussion, they've taken away my choice.

Because they're not flagging the post for you. They're flagging the post because the guy broke the rules we set as a society. Its not your choice to make whether justice should be done or not.

 

[wulf3n]

They're flagging the post because the guy broke the rules we set as a society.

Offensive Posts
Please read what you wrote before you post it and think if anyone else could find it offensive

If I as the target don't find it offensive is it breaking the rules?
Is it "Trolling" if I as the target don't see it that way?
Is it "Name calling" If I as the target enjoy being called that?