Jimquisition: Jimquisition Awards 2013 - The Last of Us

Evonisia

Your sinner, in secret
Jun 24, 2013
3,257
0
0
Predictable choice, but if I'll honest I'd have been disappointed if it wasn't there. I do wonder what the top one will be.

Remember everyone, 10/10 means best there is of it's type. The Stanley Parallel isn't really like the other award winners.
 

Joel Bridge

New member
Feb 26, 2012
37
0
0
Goliath100 said:
Casual Shinji said:
Walking around abandoned houses and observing the history that took place, following the story of Ish, the deer hunt. All of those were not cutscenes.
No, they go under "equivalent to cutscene", also known as a scripted event.
Goliath100 said:
Warning! This is a personal opinion.

I hate The Last of Us, not the game itself, and not the developer (despite the fact I can't stand anything they made in 7th gen). I hate what it represent: The idea that a "great" game can have all it's "great" parts being non-interactive. All the "great" part, they are all cutscene, or an equivalent to a cutscene (aka scripted events). And gameplay is standard shooting mechanics and lazy stealth mechanics. The gameplay is not very good, or in other words: Sterling gave a game award to a movie.

Questions to fans of The Last of us:
1: How do the Mechanics interact with the narrative, specifically the theme or the characters?
2: What is the player arc?
It more of how they blend so easly the mechanics from game make you refect both Joel personaly his brutial, I never play game it metal mind you it not over top or blood but make feel very uncomfortable, because he fight man like he going kill him, it but quite fast swift, everthing narrtative build tell stuble ways thought little dialoge they have stearching for stuff to body language in the cut scene.

2. Pretty man much man find reason to live again beyond his own selfish and needless need to live, doom the world over it.
 

Goliath100

New member
Sep 29, 2009
437
0
0
Joel Bridge said:
1: "Mechanics interact with the narrative" is not the opposite of ludonarrative dissonance (that is sadly a common mistake). Its mechanics as metaphor more than anything less.

2: That is Joel's arc, not the player arc.
Aardvaarkman said:
cinematic

sɪnɪˈmatɪk - adjective

1. relating to the cinema.
And that means what?
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
1,262
0
0
Goliath100 said:
Aardvaarkman said:
cinematic

sɪnɪˈmatɪk - adjective

1. relating to the cinema.
And that means what?
Do you not have access to Google or any dictionaries or something?

cinema

/ˈsɪnɪmə,-mɑː/ - noun

1.
a. A film or movie.
b. A movie theater.

2.
a. Films or movies considered as a group.
b. The film or movie industry.

3. The art or technique of making films or movies; filmmaking.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
1,262
0
0
Goliath100 said:
Aardvaarkman said:
What you are posting is telling me that "cinematic experience" means cutscenes (in a game context).
That's one area where it usually applies, yes. But it can apply to other parts of games. "Cinematic" in a game context relates to the use of filmmaking techniques for visual story-telling. Just as games also use literary elements and musical elements.

What's so bad about cutscenes, anyway? You seem to be implying that they should not be in games or something.

The definition of "cinematic" is pretty clear, I'm not sure why you feigned ignorance. Although you are interpreting it too narrowly. Outside of cut scenes, cinematic techniques can be used in interactive portions - such as camera angles, lighting and color grading. On the flip-side, not all cut-scenes are necessarily "cinematic."

In other words, simply saying "cinematic = cutscenes" is a vast over-simplification. Every 3D game has some basic ties to cinema - that's why the viewport is usually referred to as the "camera."
 

Guffe

New member
Jul 12, 2009
5,106
0
0
I think Jims last GotY game will be "The Consuming Shadow"
That or Killzone...
 

Britpoint

New member
Aug 30, 2013
85
0
0
Goliath100 said:
Casual Shinji said:
Walking around abandoned houses and observing the history that took place, following the story of Ish, the deer hunt. All of those were not cutscenes.
No, they go under "equivalent to cutscene", also known as a scripted event.
I'm not anywhere near as big a fan of TLoU as some, but I do think you're being quite unfair to it. These examples don't count as scripted events - except maybe the deer hunt - because you only experience them through player agency. That is, you don't wander around all the empty houses unless you choose to enter them. You don't find the notes telling Ish's story unless you explore and find them. This kind of thing is the very opposite of a scripted event - instead of taking player control away in order to present a story, they hide bits of story all around and trust the player to uncover it themselves.

Yes The Last of Us does have scripted events, and it does have lots of cutscenes which are completely non-interactive. But on top of that, there's a lot of narrative in there that is only found through the player's curiosity and desire to explore.

Now while the stealth mechanics weren't as extensive or smooth to control as Metal Gear, the terrain traversal wasn't as flowing as Uncharted, the combat wasn't as tight as Gears of War, I would argue that all these things are deliberate designs that actually serve this game well. Take the stealth, for example: yes the mechanics are a bit clunky, but this is not a game where you play a nanomachine enhanced super-soldier; you are (most of the time) Joel - some middle aged dude trying to stay alive. There's definitely an argument that this game's systems being a little rough around the edges are a good example of mechanics as metaphor; especially when you consider the tight, smooth controls of Naughty Dog's other major franchise last gen: Uncharted.

The levels are big and allow the player to approach problems in multiple ways. There is a sensibly implemented crafting and upgrade system that gives you plenty of options and allows for some genuine creativity. OK, so it doesn't allow for the kind of freedom that Deus Ex does, but this is a linear stealth/action/survival game. Not all of it's mechanics are great, but there is greatness IN those mechanics when everything comes together just right. To put it down as a 'movie where all the game bits are rubbish' is doing it a massive disservice. The gameplay may not have been quite to your taste, but take a step back and you must surely appreciate it is a finely crafted and well-considered work, even if you ignore the cutscenes and take it on game design alone.
 

Goliath100

New member
Sep 29, 2009
437
0
0
Aardvaarkman said:
By the definitions YOU where coping: cinematic experience=cutscenes. "Cinematic Experience" is just a marketing term, it means nothing. There is no better evidence then the fact that you fail at saying anything with meaning when just asked what it means.
Britpoint said:
Is the meaningful storytelling the letters/notes or finding them?
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
4,860
0
0
Smurf McSmurfington said:
Hm... my final exam for this year is tomorrow (mathematics). And so is the final Jimquisition game of the year award video.
Coincidence?
I THINK NOT!
And... if you take the anti-derivative of the derivative you get the original equation but with a C added to it instead of another constant that may or may not have existed in said equation! It all makes sense now!

Also, you can calculate the volume of the space between two lines that are approaching the same asymptote towards the same positive or negative infinity from opposite sides... Surely God is mocking us. MOCKING US I tell you!

In a crazy world like this, it's a good thing we have Jim. Maybe we should thank someone... perhaps? You know, for him being around for our aid.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
1,262
0
0
Goliath100 said:
Aardvaarkman said:
By the definitions YOU where coping: cinematic experience=cutscenes.
No, it was not. That's what you have inferred from the definitions I gave. I gave a fairly thorough explanation about how cinematic elements apply outside of cut scenes. What about that do you disagree with?

Saying that "cinematic" just means cut scenes is pretty ridiculous.

"Cinematic Experience" is just a marketing term, it means nothing.
No, it's not. It has plenty of meaning. I've also rarely seen it used in the marketing of games, it tends to be used more by critics.

There is no better evidence then the fact that you fail at saying anything with meaning when just asked what it means.
What did I say that lacked meaning? Have you ever even studied cinema? Cinema has a rich language that has evolved over the years. The language of cinema is now frequently used in games. How does that concept not have any meaning?

Why are you seemingly unable to argue my points, and just dismiss my argument, rather than actually responding to what I wrote? I answered all of your questions, yet you still haven't answered my one question: what's so bad about cut scenes?
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
Legacy
Jul 18, 2009
19,568
4,372
118
Goliath100 said:
Casual Shinji said:
How so exactly? Because by that definition, every non-sandbox game is a scripted event. Half-Life 2 and the Silent Hill games are a scrited event "equivalent to cutscene" too then, I guess?
I don't why they would be any special exception. Why does games? They are both old, and pre-Resident Evil 4.
They're not an exception. They're very good games that are linear and have scripted outcomes. As a matter of fact, so was Resident Evil 4. What was the player arc in those games..? Wanting to see it through to the end because you like the gameplay, characters, story, and setting.

And there are tons more games like it out there. Like Shadow of the Colossus, Ico, Metal Gear Solid, God of War, Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, Okami, etc. All terrific games with cutscenes that are linear and have a set outcome.
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
0
0
Goliath100 said:
Delcast said:
...cinematic experience...
What does that mean? Just answer that.
well THAT was the point... I'm not sure what it exactly means (probably the stylised aesthetics that directed narrative presents that have evolved from movies) but a lot of people value it highly. However, you seem to be incapable of reading past that.
AS I SAID that was NOT what made The Last of Us a great game. As I further explained ( and as Jim describes ).. that may be a boon for the game but without the very important gameplay elements discussed it would feel hollow and commonplace. The creative approach to combat and the general variety of options presented to the player create a very distinctive tone and texture to the game, additionally, the density of the spaces that awards players willing to explore, are all components that speak very highly of it's design, so much that the gameplay itself creates narrative beyond the literal narration.

I mean no offence, but I seriously think that we might have a bit of a language gap here, since your writing and grammar are really hard to follow and you seem to be struggling to understand some of the concepts a few of us are presenting.

Also, I'd like to ask you what game you feel has done a good job at this, I find it hard to understand exactly what is "good" in your perspective.
 

Goliath100

New member
Sep 29, 2009
437
0
0
Casual Shinji said:
The problem is that all those games are, by now, old. Resident Evil 4 (which is the close to tLoU) was released in 2005, that is almost 9 years ago. Do not tell me that a game in 2013 should be judged by the same standards as a game from 2005.
 

Andy Shandy

Fucked if I know
Jun 7, 2010
4,797
0
0
Casual Shinji said:
So much praise for The Last of Us from critics, yet never a syllable uttered regarding the stunning musical score. :'(

I'm always a bit sad to see this part of the game overlooked so much, because for me the game would probably be 30% less effective without it. It's that good. And that while it's the guy's first video game soundtrack.
Couldn't agree more. It's almost heartbreaking that for all the praise that is laid upon The Last Of Us, very little of it talks about how brilliant Gustavo Santaolalla's pieces were.

Anyway, can't argue with this choice, Jim, although it leaves very little room for Rayman Legends. And Saints Row IV. And Remember Me. And Metal Gear Rising. And The Wonderful 101. And Payday 2. =P

[sub]Man, this is more difficult than I thought. And people say it's not been a good year for gaming! [/sub]
 

Britpoint

New member
Aug 30, 2013
85
0
0
Goliath100 said:
Britpoint said:
Is the meaningful storytelling the letters/notes or finding them?
Both. The content of the notes progresses the narrative as well, but they aren't just found willy nilly, there is gameplay associated with it. For example, you might find a note in a barricaded room. The note tells you why the room was barricaded, but before you find the note you have to overcome the obstacle of a door you can't open, perhaps by boosting Ellie up to a hard to reach spot so she can get through and open the door.

This is an example of the narrative creating a puzzle and therefore context for the game mechanics. The actual content of the note simply fleshes it out.
 

Goliath100

New member
Sep 29, 2009
437
0
0
Britpoint said:
Both. The content of the notes progresses the narrative as well, but they aren't just found willy nilly, there is gameplay associated with it. For example, you might find a note in a barricaded room. The note tells you why the room was barricaded, but before you find the note you have to overcome the obstacle of a door you can't open, perhaps by boosting Ellie up to a hard to reach spot so she can get through and open the door.

This is an example of the narrative creating a puzzle and therefore context for the game mechanics. The actual content of the note simply fleshes it out.
And how is the puzzle a part of the overall narrative? To be clear: I'm asking for gameplay/mechanics informing narrative, not the other way around.
 

Britpoint

New member
Aug 30, 2013
85
0
0
Goliath100 said:
Britpoint said:
Both. The content of the notes progresses the narrative as well, but they aren't just found willy nilly, there is gameplay associated with it. For example, you might find a note in a barricaded room. The note tells you why the room was barricaded, but before you find the note you have to overcome the obstacle of a door you can't open, perhaps by boosting Ellie up to a hard to reach spot so she can get through and open the door.

This is an example of the narrative creating a puzzle and therefore context for the game mechanics. The actual content of the note simply fleshes it out.
And how is the puzzle a part of the overall narrative? To be clear: I'm asking for gameplay/mechanics informing narrative, not the other way around.
I feel like you are being unbelievably vague in your request. Can you perhaps provide a couple of examples of games that in your view do what you are asking for really well (and explain why they do it well), so that I have a valid point of comparison?