Jimquisition: Mass Effect 3 And The Case For A Gay Shepard

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Our free will makes everything posible. Everything we do is a choice, some chocies are nessisary, like the choice to eat and breathe, to not give in and hurl your self from the bridge, to want to be happy.

Determinism hates you

Now THAT is a debate no one will ever emerge victorious from.

 

[Alrocsmash]

-

Seeing as how you missed the message again, I'll quote the man and make it simple:

"You wanna judge what is and isn't normal based off what animals do? Maybe next time I see your wife I'll drop down on all fours and fuck her leg."

It's a bad argument. Don't do it, people.

I'm not trying to hate, but literally NOTHING you have spoken disproves anything. Your edit. Your connection to what animals "do". You were dis proven rapidly by me, then edited your garbage post with more dribble that argued nothing relevant. Consent was never in this argument. Also Google female gorillas. There are videos of female gorillas with no food, and have sex with males who do. They trade sex for sustenance. Go back to school kiddie.

 

[Darknacht]

Saying that homosexuals are somehow elevated above other sexual deviants is inherantly wrong, they are EXACTLY the same thing, just aroused by a differant abnormal trigger. Once you start saying homosexuals are entitled to representation, the same exact arguement can be made for ANY deviant using the same exact logic. It doesn't seem like an issue now, because nobody is using those arguements, but given time they will come, and with one deviation established as being accepted irregardless of the mainstream, it becomes increasingly difficult to say that others need to be singled out and excluded.

Every time you engage in a sexual act, even by yourself, that does not end in a child you are engaging in a deviant act. Using birth control and masturbation are obviously just as inherently wrong as everything else. In fact to maximize your breeding capability, and ensure you don't preform a deviant act, you should have many women ready to take your seed every time you engage in sexual acts. All sex should have been kept out of the game since its not for the purpose of breeding so its all deviant and you don't want to be deviant.

Edit: To avoid any further confusion this is satire. I don't believe that birth control and masturbation are wrong, or that men should line up women to maximize the breeding capacity of each sexual act. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Therumancer]

I raised questions like those that are into scat, extreme BDSM, or other assorted things, many of which probably have heterosexuals involved in numbers globally that outnumber the entire population of homosexuals of both genders. If you start saying you HAVE to do this, which is what this comes down to, because Bioware made it pretty clear they didn't want to, it opens the door for any group that wants to make similar demands to come forward and do the same exact thing.


...., the thing that has made this an issue is the massive protests to FORCE them to put this kind of thing into the game, simply because they chose to do so before with other games.

You do know that Bioware wrote these choices into ME2? There are scenes on Youtube, cut from ME2, that amply demonstrate that. Now that they've tested the market with Dragon Age 2 and the world hasn't ended they probably feel safer including these themes.

And how in your deluded little mind (Now that "gayness" is "allowed") would they include bestiality, BDSM, scat or pedophilia into a PG/M rated computer game? Are they going to include dialogue options such as:

"Hey Garret, want to come shit on my face while I jerk off"

or

"Yeoman Kelly go cuff yourself to my table and assume the position."?

This issue is MUCH bigger than homosexuality,

No it isn't. It starts with sexuality and ends with sexuality and your obvious problems with anything that deviates from your hetero-normative world view.

and down the road if you decide to make complaints about extraneous characters or politics ruining something... anything, what your saying here could come back to haunt you. Being stuck in a position of trying to explain how forced inclusion in something else is a problem, when your saying it's okay with homosexuality isn't going to be easy to argue your way out of as once you start saying it's okay for one group it's hard to say it about others.

What are you trying to say here? That because we say that homosexuality is okay we have to say everything up to pedophilia is okay?

This is where your world view becomes truly disgusting. If you cannot separate sex acts between two (or more) consenting adults, (No matter how disgusting you might find them) and RAPE then you obviously have issues with mental clarity.

See, here is the problem. You insult me and suggest I be banned. Then you write this message insulting me, while presumably trying to bring up some counterpoints, albiet ones already covered to an extent in what I've already written.

I remain polite in these conversations, even when facing people getting rude with me, or whom I disagree with substantially. Re-write this to be polite and non-confrontational and I'll consider taking the time to respond.

Also in referance to your earlier message, your far more likely to wind up getting banned for personal attacks than I am for saying things that have come up before over a number of years. It's a general principle for me not to report people though, but still, on an open set of forums like this one if you can't learn to agree to disagree with people, even ones with positions you strongly oppose, your probably going to wind up eventually getting people who will make an issue of it, and the last thing you need is a pattern of behavior. Like it or not there is no requirement that you have to be politically correct or agree with socially liberal viewpoints. On the issue of gay rights I'm actually kind of a centrist as opposed to left or right wing (and tend to be disliked by both), but if I was a totally over the top bigot that would probably be cool too as long as I remained relatively civil about it (which isn't a factor since I generally am not, despite what you might think).

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

-

Seeing as how you missed the message again, I'll quote the man and make it simple:

"You wanna judge what is and isn't normal based off what animals do? Maybe next time I see your wife I'll drop down on all fours and fuck her leg."

It's a bad argument. Don't do it, people.

I'm not trying to hate, but literally NOTHING you have spoken disproves anything. Your edit. Your connection to what animals "do". You were dis proven rapidly by me, then edited your garbage post with more dribble that argued nothing relevant. Consent was never in this argument. Also Google female gorillas. They're are videos of female gorillas that no food, and have sex with males who do. They trade sex for sustenance. Go back to school kiddie.

It was originally stated that "no other species has homophobia" and that was given in evidence against homophobia in humans.

Take your insults back home and tell me then, with the previous accepted as fact for this argument, why the following line is not also therefore correct: "No other species has an age of consent. So humans shouldn't either." If it's okay to use homophobia not existing in others to condem it in Man, why is it not okay to use it in this example?

It's a weak argument. What other animals do or don't do is entirely irrelevant; it has no bearing whatsoever on what is 'right and wrong' in human society.

 

[Atlas13]

You know, I like dicks myself but I still don't like gay Shepard. It's not for any of the reasons you listed, it's just for the fact that the bioware writers kinda started sucking at making characters recently. I'd love it if they could make the characters better, or actually write the scenes better, but it's just bad.

 

[ZexionSephiroth]

Considering the ending of this Jimquisition i think I will share my personal opinion.

Well now, I do have a problem with gay people. Aka they are sick in the head and whatever excuse medics came up in USA when they realized they can't cure them did not just made them normal... Look, curing schizophrenia is not easy either. If possible at all.

Define what it is that makes homosexuality a mental illness. Define why, if homosexuality is a mental illness, heterosexuality can't be seen as a mental illness as well.

Heterosexuality makes babies. Homosexuality doesn't.

Frankly it IS, from an evolutionary point of view, wrong. Thats not wrong in a moral sense, but wrong in a continuation of the species sense.

I can fully understand why some consider it a mental illness, arguably an inherited or developed one.

My argument would be, so what? If it makes someone happy and does not inflict harm on them or others then whats the problem?

It actually isn't a mental illness from an evolutionary standpoint. A trait not being passed on or not being conducive to passing on does not mean that those traits constitute a mental illness, it means that they weren't conducive to reproducing. Also, concerning that homosexual couples in the modern day do find ways of reproducing, I'd say it doesn't hinder their reproductive capabilities. Their ability to work within their environment to overcome their natural flaws is a trait that ought to be passed on, from an evolutionary standpoint.

Also, Breeders, as I have heard them called, actually are the cause of one of the biggest issues of our time, overpopulation. An increase in homosexual couples who do not wish to reproduce would be the solution to this problem. This means that homosexuality would be our species saving grace. Our balancing act.

Really though, claiming that homosexuality is a mental illness is a much bigger claim. One that needs to be backed up by hard science.

Oooh, Fun fact I heard somewhere, someone check if I'm right: the more male children one has, the more chance the next male child will have Homo erotic tendancies. Thus one could say that there's an evolutionary reason built in when considering overpopulation: those that spawn way more children than to replace them when they die cause children less likely to do the same (except technology.) Thus keeping overpopulation (a major problem with and for many species other than, and including ours) from occuring quite as often.

Then again, I also hear the places where the most children are being born is in under developed nations so... Eh?

 

[ACman]

SNIP.

Yes I suggest that you should be banned. Your opinions are not ones that should be tolerated.

This is not a matter of politeness. You have previously suggested that homosexuals are more likely to be paedophiles based upon nothing but your own claimed anecdotal evidence.

This is bigotry. Hiding behind "politeness" is not an excuse. Neo-Nazis and the KKK are not welcome in public debate for a reason regardless of how polite they are.

 

[wintercoat]

-

Seeing as how you missed the message again, I'll quote the man and make it simple:

"You wanna judge what is and isn't normal based off what animals do? Maybe next time I see your wife I'll drop down on all fours and fuck her leg."

It's a bad argument. Don't do it, people.

And seeing as how you missed my message a second time, I'll put it more bluntly. Trying to knock down a strawman with factually wrong arguments is A BAD DEBATING STRATEGY!!!!! It's as bad as using a strawman in the first place. Never said that I agreed with the "animals do it" defense. All I stated was that you were wrong in that humans are the only ones with thumbs.

Also, again, don't make giant pandas sad. I'm pretty sure they're proud of their thumbs. Possums and opossums on the other hand can go fuck themselves.

Anyways, I agree that the animal defense is a bad argument, so I really don't see why we're fighting.

 

[Therumancer]

Saying that homosexuals are somehow elevated above other sexual deviants is inherantly wrong, they are EXACTLY the same thing, just aroused by a differant abnormal trigger. Once you start saying homosexuals are entitled to representation, the same exact arguement can be made for ANY deviant using the same exact logic. It doesn't seem like an issue now, because nobody is using those arguements, but given time they will come, and with one deviation established as being accepted irregardless of the mainstream, it becomes increasingly difficult to say that others need to be singled out and excluded.

Every time you engage in a sexual act, even by yourself, that does not end in a child you are engaging in a deviant act. Using birth control and masturbation are obviously just as inherently wrong as everything else. In fact to maximize your breeding capability, and ensure you don't preform a deviant act, you should have many women ready to take your seed every time you engage in sexual acts. All sex should have been kept out of the game since its not for the purpose of breeding so its all deviant and you don't want to be deviant.

See, this is one of the reasons why these conversations degenerate. Intentionally ridiculous, and obtuse answers contribute nothing to serious discourse, much like straw man arguements. There is nothing clever about it. It's also responses like this that generally get me to drop out of threads and people to wonder why I don't seem to be taking them, or the opposing viewpoint in general, seriously.

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

I loved this episode. The pedophilia part made me laugh. I think I'd also respect someone saying that they've got a problem with gay people, rather than the other stupid shit a lot of them say.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

-

Seeing as how you missed the message again, I'll quote the man and make it simple:

"You wanna judge what is and isn't normal based off what animals do? Maybe next time I see your wife I'll drop down on all fours and fuck her leg."

It's a bad argument. Don't do it, people.

And seeing as how you missed my message a second time, I'll put it more bluntly. Trying to knock down a strawman with factually wrong arguments is A BAD DEBATING STRATEGY!!!!! It's as bad as using a strawman in the first place. Never said that I agreed with the "animals do it" defense. All I stated was that you were wrong in that humans are the only ones with thumbs.

Also, again, don't make giant pandas sad. I'm pretty sure they're proud of their thumbs. Possums and opossums on the other hand can go fuck themselves.

Anyways, I agree that the animal defense is a bad argument, so I really don't see why we're fighting.

Oh. My apologies.

I thought you were arguing against me (debating that the 'animals do/don't defense was a good one) by strawmaning me. But you were actually saying I was wrong in my original post--which is true.

You were arguing the actual comment, not the point I was making. Sorry about that.

No idea why I went with thumbs... Temporary brain loss?

 

[ACman]

Homosexuality exists in over 450 animal species. Homophobia exists in only one. Which one seems more unnatural now?

People need to grow up.

That's a very poor defense. Thumbs exist in only one animal species too.

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

okokok..... Monkeys. Ya? Monkeys.

Or Raccoons.

Or Possums.

Or Squirrels.

Do lemurs have thumbs too? I think they do. And I think "monkey" only covers a few of the primates, most of which have thumbs of a kind.

Iguanas.

Frogs.

Bird (admittedly somewhat different)

 

[ACman]

Also in referance to your earlier message, your far more likely to wind up getting banned for personal attacks than I am for saying things that have come up before over a number of years.

Hell I just reported myself to see what would happen. My forum health can take a few hits.

Yours on the otherhand....

 

[Darknacht]

Saying that homosexuals are somehow elevated above other sexual deviants is inherantly wrong, they are EXACTLY the same thing, just aroused by a differant abnormal trigger. Once you start saying homosexuals are entitled to representation, the same exact arguement can be made for ANY deviant using the same exact logic. It doesn't seem like an issue now, because nobody is using those arguements, but given time they will come, and with one deviation established as being accepted irregardless of the mainstream, it becomes increasingly difficult to say that others need to be singled out and excluded.

Every time you engage in a sexual act, even by yourself, that does not end in a child you are engaging in a deviant act. Using birth control and masturbation are obviously just as inherently wrong as everything else. In fact to maximize your breeding capability, and ensure you don't preform a deviant act, you should have many women ready to take your seed every time you engage in sexual acts. All sex should have been kept out of the game since its not for the purpose of breeding so its all deviant and you don't want to be deviant.

See, this is one of the reasons why these conversations degenerate. Intentionally ridiculous, and obtuse answers contribute nothing to serious discourse, much like straw man arguements. There is nothing clever about it. It's also responses like this that generally get me to drop out of threads and people to wonder why I don't seem to be taking them, or the opposing viewpoint in general, seriously.

So, if more people make sarcastic responses to your ignorant close minded statement you will keep your bigotry to your self? That sounds like a good idea. Also my statement that all sexual acts that don't involve breeding are deviant is more logical than your statement that sexual acts that you don't agree with are deviant.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Using birth control and masturbation are obviously just as inherently wrong as everything else.

Prove it.

Go ahead. Prove that masturbation and birth control are wrong.

I'll wait.

 

[irishda]

Homosexuality exists in over 450 animal species. Homophobia exists in only one. Which one seems more unnatural now?

People need to grow up.

That's a very poor defense. Age of consent exists in only one animal species too.

EDITED for reasons that become clear later in the forum, lol.

Age of consent does exist in animals, it's called sexual maturity. Animals usually have pheromones or certain visual displays that tell other animals they can have sex. Really the only animals that have sex for fun are humans, dolphins, and pigs, in all other species it's either mating or dominance. I haven't seen the video of animals boinking newborns, but then I don't have Discovery channel so it's hard to keep up.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Homosexuality exists in over 450 animal species. Homophobia exists in only one. Which one seems more unnatural now?

People need to grow up.

That's a very poor defense. Age of consent exists in only one animal species too.

EDITED for reasons that become clear later in the forum, lol.

Age of consent does exist in animals, it's called sexual maturity.

That is not age of consent. That is another animal being ready to procreate.

What you describe is an individual going through puberty. Sexual consent is electing to allow sexual intercourse to occur.

 

[irishda]

Using birth control and masturbation are obviously just as inherently wrong as everything else.

Prove it.

Go ahead. Prove that masturbation and birth control are wrong.

I'll wait.

Either he's saying he believes sex is only about procreation, and therefore things that prevent that are wrong, or he's offering up a rebuttal to people that believe homosexuality is wrong because it's impossible to procreate in that fashion.