bloodmage2 said:
Question:
Why is it always the men who are defending "the objectification of women"?
I almost never see, you know, ACTUAL WOMEN complaining about this, and when they do, they always come across as vapid as the objectified characters they complain about.
Every female i spoken with on the issue who isn't a mindless soccer mom has absolutely no problem with it, because they understand it's a fantasy.
Media reflect the society that creates them, gaming is not the issue here.
Tell me, defenders of this argument, what's your endgame? what do you want to see happen? in a perfect world, how would women characters be different?
Don't tell me what they wouldn't be, i understand that anything that reminds you that women have tits frightens you so, but what would they be?
There is far too much demonizing and no-one is trying to fix anything.
Jim, the topic used to be interesting, but you have added literally nothing to the debate since the last time you made a video about it. A discussion is fine, but you have since left the realm of any actual discussion, and you are veering dangerously close to white knight territory.
Wow, like a lightning bolt it hits me.
Guys are trying to make games more inviting to women so women will no longer see playing videogames as a bad thing!
They're trying to level the playing field, and turn gaming into a positive!!
No longer can women say "Look at that immature loser playing videogames!" purely based on gaming, and excluding all other facets of life as the they take part in it, too!
And thus, potentially, is about getting laid!
Is that EVIL? Not in my opinion.
... Nah.
Still, I wouldn't mind seeing more female protagonists. If this movement gets us more well written, well rounded (In writing, not polygons.
) women as playable characters that might hopefully draw in a larger female population of gamers, well I'm not going to stop it. <.<
I'm tired of Dudebro time being synonymous with videogames, and it feels like times are slowly changing away from the thick dudebro time that laid heavy on consoles.
Having said that, and moving along, this "agency" being talked about? I feel people are missing the point here, and there.
I think this "agency" aimed more along the lines of guys being more played as, thus having more agency.That is the line between Idealization, and objectification I see.
As opposed to the vast majority of women who have no agency as they're NPCs fated to fall in love with the playable guy, and are often damsels in distress, and what not. They have no purpose other than to be love interests, or be saved. Possibly be one's side-kick/NPC squad mate.
Agency means idealization over objectivization because you, the player, become that character to some degree. You are the playable character who is your ideal. He is your agent. Your ideal agent to do as you command~!
They can be sexualized, but as playable characters, they aren't the immobile, helpless object bound to programming, and story as much as an NPC, and have a great deal more freedom thanks to the player.
Objectification is what (or usually who) you're after. The NPC you're off to save who's often a woman who's there as a trophy for your character, even as the fate of a planet hangs in the balance. The person you're off to rescue is the object of your desire. You cannot play as this person, and thus have no agency. They are helpless to the way the game pans out.
Sexualization, and objectification aren't one in the same! Princess Peach is often an object (thus objectified), though she sometimes gains agency (And thus the potential for idealization) in some games like smash bros., Mario Kart, her own game, and Mario bros 2.
Quality of the characters isn't in my equasion as far as this goes (as that's another can of worms being guys getting all the useful powers in most games, while women just tend not to), nor is their circumstance in said game. The fact that guys have the agency of being playable most of the time is what this boils down to with the path I'm going.
What leads me towards this way? Lets look at 2 previous videos of Jims! the Culling of female protagonsits, I believe, and the video about shooters being sausagefests. He's callign out the BS, too. Shame he can't out the companies by name.
I get the feeling he wants more female playable characters, and I don't blame him.
Not saying that there aren't problems in the sexual appearance of characters, or that one gender's problems are lesser than anothers, here! Guys, and Gals have problems in the gaming industry.
BUT I'd feel a lot better if female protagonists and male protagonists had the exact same problems, meaning both are often represented, and both have good, or bad presentations.
I can't help but feel the lack of female PLAYABLE protagonists that aren't upstaged by a dude that steals their thunder is sorta one-upping guys in the problems area.
The fact that game companies are ka-boshing people who want to make female protagonists is another problem that I wish wasn't around, or was actually shared between the genders.
Guys do get objectified, and to a smaller extent women do as enemies in your way, but which is usually the gender of the playable protagonist?
Am I calling anyone evil for enjoying sexualization? Hell no. The only ones I dare call "evil" are the game companies that actually prevent female protagonists.
Maybe I'm wrong here? I dunno.
I doubt I'm wrong on this, however, in that this topic WILL NEVER DIE until guys, and gals have the exact same problems. In videogames it seems like the battle one can win. People that are tired of the topic? Help the people you disagree with and get these changes done, then you'll get that peace and quiet you want.
I can't believe I waded through 19 pages reading this. Not that the topic is boring, but it's 19 pages.
And I'm also saying, Thank GOD for Jim. Hopefully game companies will get wind of him, and listen as he calls them out on their BS, and stop blocking female protagonists. People of some fame are better for getting changes made over a buncha nobodies.
