Jimquisition: Objectification And... Men?

Ashoten

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I have heard this argument before when people talk about comic book women being objectified. This is the best response I have seen.



Make of it what you will.
 

aba1

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Some interesting points and well personally it breaks down like this for me. Companies trying to make it so women can't be used outside a handful of stereotypical roles is a issue but women being used in those roles is not a issue. Designers should be able to create the game that makes the most sense and plays as great as possible and if it does tropes along the way sure what ever. Games are fantasy and should be allowed to do what ever they want and if people don't want to play what they provide that is fine what ever floats your boat but don't say it is wrong or hurts people somehow. If a company is forcing designers to objectify women or develop a role outside of that it is a big problem because they are actively doing it because they are women and hold back the creative process of any game.
 

grumpymooselion

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Good points Jim, but, perhaps you've forgotten - there are male characters made for a female audience.

Male characters made for specifically a female audience, usually a teen female audience, over in Japan. They're those effeminate pretty boys so much of the western male audience seems to hate. So, oddly enough, when male characters are made specially 'for women' the reaction is about what the female reaction is to female characters made to appeal to men.

Personally I always rather liked the prettier eastern male characters, if for no other reason that they were a breath of fresh air, an escape, from the constant barrage of overly muscled, overly masculine and utterly nonsensical male characters of western games.
 

Imp_Emissary

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Monxeroth said:
So i heard you like beating dead horses :U
Truth =/= Urgency
One does not trivialize the other and vice versa and one is not objectively more harmful even if it would be a lot more frequently occuring for example.

Wonder what tired old subject will be tackled next week
DRM?
Bad Business Practices?

Really starting so sound like a broken record by now but oh well...
Don't you think the reason people, (Not just Jim, Bob made this same point a good while ago), keep talking about these problems may be because they haven't stopped being problems?

Ignoring the problems won't make them get better.
Jimothy Sterling said:
I bet on this episode of Road Runner, the coyote tries to catch the bird and fails. Fuck this show.
Every dog has his/her day. Even Coyotes.

He did finally get the Bird on Robot Chicken.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Monxeroth said:
Jack and Calumon said:
All very good points and arguments that have, unfortunately, been covered many times by many people for about a year now. Sure, people still use this defence so you could argue it bears repeating, but honestly this has been said ad nauseum. No new perspectives were brought up, no new ideas, just the ones covered by everyone else.

Not that it detracts from the points you've made. I firmly agree, it's just dull to see what you've seen before.

Calumon's sleeping, I'm lazy. Bleck.
It really is and thats why we use terms like broken record and beating a dead horse because well...thats all there is to it if no new perspective is brought up or if someone has already said it better before.
I really see no point in arguing and or debating for well...the sake of debating because we need to debate about the debate and need to debate the debate...*headache*

People often say to other people critisizing opinionvideos like these for: Well if you have something better to say why dont you make it yourself?

Well i would if it wasnt already said better by someone else so im not gonna waste other peoples time with simply watching a video of my opinion that is already very similar to someone elses video with for example better content value.
I have something better to say but its not different enough to justify it being said at all just for the sake of saying it, that kind of defeats the point of debate if it becomes stagnant with the same viewpoints being formulated differently time and time again
If that was your problem why did you not say that instead of suggesting I'd tackled this topic in my series already, which is factually incorrect?

If you didn't like the video because you say someone else said similar things, whatever. That's not what you said though. You said my show had covered this exact topic before.
 

klown

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Monxeroth said:
jokulhaups said:
Cue the masses claiming, "this isn't a problem, stop talking about it".
Thankfully I'm not one of those however I will say "Lets talk about it but just not repeat ourselves with the same thing so that it doesn't become as much of a discussion and more of a "pls-agree-with-me-footrace""

In the sense that, yeah i like that we're having the discussion I just don't like any discussion, discourse and debate to be one-sided or to be basically all the people saying the same thing but formulated differently, that's not what debate is to me.
Actually that is what a debate is. The point of a debate is to get your point across, and change people's minds. You do this by reiterating your point in as many different ways as it takes to get the furthest person to your side. That is the how you debate, and even a simple discussion.
 

Sepko

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Monxeroth said:
jokulhaups said:
Cue the masses claiming, "this isn't a problem, stop talking about it".
Thankfully im not one of those however i will say "Lets talk about it but just not repeat ourselves with the same thing so that it doesnt become as much of a discussion and more of a pls-agree-with-me-footrace"

In the sense that, yeah i like that we're having the discussion i just dont like any discussion, discourse and debate to be onesided or to be basically all the people saying the same thing but formulated differently, thats not what debate is to me.
This is almost like debating how Creationism has equal standing with Evolution as a science.
Arguments can be one-sided and still be interesting.
 

DrunkenElfMage

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Jack and Calumon said:
All very good points and arguments that have, unfortunately, been covered many times by many people for about a year now. Sure, people still use this defence so you could argue it bears repeating, but honestly this has been said ad nauseum. No new perspectives were brought up, no new ideas, just the ones covered by everyone else.

Not that it detracts from the points you've made. I firmly agree, it's just dull to see what you've seen before.

Calumon's sleeping, I'm lazy. Bleck.
You'd be surprised to find out just how many people don't know or haven't seen things that you would think that everyone should have heard about already.

I know people who haven't seen Star Wars, anime fans who haven't watched Cowboy Bebop, shooter fans who haven't played Half Life, Half Life 2, or Portal.

Just because you think everyone has heard this already, doesn't mean they have and if a tenth of the audience Jim has has learned something new, then I would say this is a video well made.
 

MaxwellMouse

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Monxeroth, it is not everyone has seen all internet videos before. Even if it is a covered topic, that does not make it any less valid or relevant. I see people saying things like this all the time, as recent as the whole Dragon`s Crown issue.
 

RaikuFA

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Theres some other issues that need to be addressed in this debate. Like the fact that Senran Kagura might never make it outside of Japan due to the west being prudish and crying sexist at anyything that has boobs.
 

Sepko

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grumpymooselion said:
Good points Jim, but, perhaps you've forgotten - there are male characters made for a female audience.

Male characters made for specifically a female audience, usually a teen female audience, over in Japan.
And we're done, those games are sold almost exclusively in Japan, Jim's mostly talking about Western attitudes with the objectification thing. That's including the Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball footage he used, cuz that was sold in the West.
 

Xman490

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Jim has used the DoA: Beach Volleyball trailer as an example of female objectification way too much. Granted, it's a pure example, but it's in almost every video Jim has done regarding the topic of women.
At least he expanded his scope to Dragon's Crown and sometimes winks at Other M.

Speaking of consistently using examples, Jim also uses Gears of War, Uncharted, and God of War as "male idealization" examples, though not quite as much as DoA:BV.
 

Darken12

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Thank you, Jim. It's like you know exactly what to say to the douchenozzles who cover their ears and go "LALALA SEXISM DOES NOT EXIST!"

The thing that annoys me the most is the endless flak, the stubborn refusal to face facts and own up to the toxicity of the industry.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Xman490 said:
Jim has used the DoA: Beach Volleyball trailer as an example of female objectification way too much. Granted, it's a pure example, but it's in almost every video Jim has done regarding the topic of women.
Basically because it's a killer example.

I can happily use some different footage. That one just works so damn well.