Jimquisition: Perfect Pasta Sauce

[Falseprophet]

Can somebody list the zillions of columns/blog posts Shamus made in which he stated this exact point? Would be useful as a reference.

I know he's mentioned it in at least half the episodes of the Diecast [http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?cat=287]. IIRC it's also come up in his recent Experienced Points columns on EA's troubles.

 

[Stormtyrant]

Did a brit just totally rip on the royal family?

It happens more often than you'd think!

Brilliant video Jim! We need more chunky pasta sauce games out there.

 

[Ashoten]

O Jim Sterling you magnificent bastard you do not need to tell us that your collaborative work with Yahtzee is very good. We have all learned by now that anything you are in is superior in quality by definition of having Jim Sterling in it. This of course is how it should be in any sane and civilized world.

Sincerely some guy who hatted you for the first 6 months on Escapist
Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster for you Jim




P.S. Variety is something the old school and hard core gamers have been complaining about for a while now. Good to see you finally grace us with your thoughts on the matter.

 

[rofltehcat]

Truly great episode! Though I'd expect a few british people to be pissed off about that last part

 

[punipunipyo]

And right you are! Good episode!

I like my pasta with extra "stuff" I added after I pour the can in to the pot, like extra onion, mushrooms, garlic, meat chunks(sausages)...Etc; I missed the old days where I can buy a game and make maps/mod on my own, like the unreal tournament, War craft III, that comes with an editor, even IF I was lazy to design one, I can always get users' content by DLing them off net.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Jim I completely agree with the episode except you contradicted yourself trying to defend the previous episode. Prego succeeded by focus testing. You would have been better served by making the connection to prego clearly just saying that they merely learned that Variety was the spice of life, not that you MUST innovate. The innovation you're unhappy with shouldn't be called innovation. Call it "feature spamming.". That's a bit more on the nose.

It's not that focus testing should never be used, it's that it can't be the be-all, end-all. Malcolm Gladwell is where I learned a lot about both the pasta thing *and* the perils of focus testing. Basically, you can learn a lot from directly asking your audience things, but you can't hang on their every word because, ultimately, a lot of what they say won't translate into what they do.

Also, the difference between Prego and the coffee thing is the difference between gauging an actual preference versus a someone's perception of their own preferences. You can have someone taste different things and they can tell you what they like. You can simply ask someone what they like and they'll tell you what sounds good. Hence, people say they want "rich, dark roasted" coffee when, in reality, they prefer the taste of someone else.

Had Prego just asked people what they wanted, it's likely they'd not have discovered extra chunky, because nobody would have said it.

So, we shouldn't just ask what people want, but also try and see what they are enjoying?
Hmmmm....Do you think the Games industry could ask that guy for some help like Prego did?

Also well done on the new show. We could use some more poetry around here.

 

[Dak_N_Jaxter]

Your best episode yet.

 

[kajinking]

Sigh...

This just reminds me of how much I want a good new RTS that isn't totally indie or some f2p nonsense, I just want a fair priced RTS with a decent single player story and some skirmish modes for me to mess around in.

Sigh....wonder how much Red Alert 3 is on steam.

 

[GAunderrated]

I can think of a few game genre's that rarely get scratched by a good game.

-Horror
-Zombie survival (lots of crappy attempts but nothing has gotten it right yet)
-adventure games
-point and click
-fun puzzle games.
-Platformers (while thankfully growing in the indie scene can still do better)
-A new form of card games (something like Yugioh: war of the roses for the ps2/GC)
-Metroidvania style games (some have come out but have been kinda ham fisted)
-2D side scrollers (akin but not necessarily like megaman)
-fun exploration games (akin to terraria and starbound)

Now some of these categories are finally starting to bulk up the past 2 years but they arn't getting nearly as much love as trying to make the next big WoW or CoD killer.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

Still waiting to throw my money at a game that gives you a fully customizable (like Saints Row 2) loot-based (like Borderlands) urban open-world (like Crackdown) Action-RPG (again, like Borderlands) hybrid that I would buy twice over.

DEVELOPERS, THIS AUDIENCE OF ME IS WAITING IN THE WINGS!

 

[Azaraxzealot]

I can think of a few game genre's that rarely get scratched by a good game.


-Zombie survival (lots of crappy attempts but nothing has gotten it right yet)
-fun exploration games (akin to terraria and starbound)

I agree with you on these two. Minecraft and its MANY clones come as close as you get to combining those two into one brilliant game, but we have yet to see one that fully explores the potential of Zombie Survival (like a Bethesda RPG with zombies would be AWESOME, especially after fans mod a hardcore survival mode into it)

 

[Madman Muntz]

Yes thank God for Jim, ...and sod the flipping royals. While some people, including yourself, are worried that this weeks edition might contradict last weeks, I don't agree. I think both compliment each other quite well. My reasoning for thinking this is because aside from big companies being very narrow minded in what kind of games they make, as last weeks video showed, they are also pumping a ridiculous shitload of resources into very few titles. If these, frankly batshit, developers would work towards more realistic sales estimates and budgets, there would be arse loads of money left over to try some experimenting. Just like you've said in both videos these companies need to pull their heads out of their recharge sockets and stop trying to find the "one game to rule them all". And instead use that money to exponentially expand their customer base by creating a wider spectrum of game types that appeal to more than just the already hooked, and somewhat jaded disciples they have now.

Do I think that many major developers are going to do that? Sadly I give a big "fuck no". These are the same dingbats that are continuing in their mad vision to segregate their customer base across several game platforms which has the net effect of actually lowering their sales count as most people, at least the ones that I know, only buy one version of a game, in a time when they are throwing so much money into their games already that it is nearly impossible to make a realistic return.

 

[A_Parked_Car]

This describes my feelings pretty much exactly. I'm a hardcore RTS, 4X and Grand Strategy gamer. At the moment my preferred genres seem to be doing fairly well. Though the games within those genres seem to be constantly converging into a very small handful of publishers. I quietly celebrated that SEGA picked up Relic, since they have proven that they are both willing and able to handle RTSes, such as the Total War series, with a degree of respect.

Addressing the pasta sauce example, there is no single 'perfect' genre for me. Heck, I even sub-divide within genres. For example, I do play competitive mulit-player shooters from time to time. I have what I call the 'holy trinity' of Battlefield 3, Team Fortress 2 and Red Orchestra 2 for all my competitive multi-player shooting needs.

I will play them based on whatever mood I'm in. If I want some silly, colourful fun, then I will head on over to TF2. If I want to play something a bit more serious, then I will play BF3. Finally, if I want to play something far slower, harder, grittier and more deliberate, then I will head into RO2. Put another way, in TF2 I get the excitement from clearing out the enemy base in 2Fort and walking out with the intelligence as a Heavy in an overall atmosphere of silliness. In BF3, I get the excitement from getting lots of kills and capping objectives in what feels like a semi-grounded action movie. In RO2, I get the excitement from the anticipation of a firefight, or running from one side of the street to the other without getting killed.

I can't say that one of those shooters is better than the other. I just 'feel' like different game-play styles on different days. For example, some days I would not have the patience for RO2's slow and methodical game-play, while other days I just want to take things a bit more seriously than TF2.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

I totally agree with you Jim. I think AAA publishers are afraid of trying something new and are sticking to their guns and milking their franchises to oblivion.

This is why indie games and the whole kickstarter has become a thing, because the publishers won't throw money at such games if it doesn't bring them millions of copies sold. There is a market for everything out there, but someone needs to take the first step so that others may follow.

I'm interested in the new Thief reboot for example, but will be disappointed by the fact that they will try to casualise/mainstream it. I want to play old school RPG's with prettier graphics because I couldn't back in the day for the reason of not being born. This is why I've funded all of those awesome projects that will get me what I want.

 

[Darken12]

Thank you, Jim, now I can link this video to people who keep decrying that LGBTQ+ inclusion is doomed and useless because it's not the majority demographic, and apparently if something cannot make CoD money, it's not worth doing at all.

There's a demographic eager to be served LGBTQ+ inclusion, and that includes some straight/cis people too.

Female and racial inclusion benefit from this exact kind of argument too.

 

[Slash2x]

Jim I completely agree with the episode except you contradicted yourself trying to defend the previous episode. Prego succeeded by focus testing. You would have been better served by making the connection to prego clearly just saying that they merely learned that Variety was the spice of life, not that you MUST innovate. The innovation you're unhappy with shouldn't be called innovation. Call it "feature spamming.". That's a bit more on the nose.

It's not that focus testing should never be used, it's that it can't be the be-all, end-all. Malcolm Gladwell is where I learned a lot about both the pasta thing *and* the perils of focus testing. Basically, you can learn a lot from directly asking your audience things, but you can't hang on their every word because, ultimately, a lot of what they say won't translate into what they do.

Also, the difference between Prego and the coffee thing is the difference between gauging an actual preference versus a someone's perception of their own preferences. You can have someone taste different things and they can tell you what they like. You can simply ask someone what they like and they'll tell you what sounds good. Hence, people say they want "rich, dark roasted" coffee when, in reality, they prefer the taste of someone else.

Had Prego just asked people what they wanted, it's likely they'd not have discovered extra chunky, because nobody would have said it.

So, we shouldn't just ask what people want, but also try and see what they are enjoying?
Hmmmm....Do you think the Games industry could ask that guy for some help like Prego did?

Also well done on the new show. We could use some more poetry around here.

Demos. We need demos that are just concepts. Nothing crazy or expensive, just a small one or two levels and see what everyone flips out for. Developers could change the way games are made if this took off.

 

[Aircross]

I had a dream about Jim last night.

I knelt down into a praying stance in front of him and said, "Thank god for Jim!"

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I'm not sure who got the biggest burn, the British Royal Family or the AAA Game Industry.

 

[flaviok79]

Jim, this is your best show so far. Keep it up!