Jimquisition: Perfect Pasta Sauce
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
I use to not like Jim as well but it seems like lately he's really been kicking ass. He's got a good view on the game market and if only publishers and developers would heed him.WaitWHAT said:
That was beautiful, Jim. Just beautiful. I've always thought of Jim as more capable as a consumer advocate than as a gaming intellectual, but I'm about ready to re-think that now. This episode is both ingenious and brilliantly executed. I can't believe game markets still can't notice that *gasp* different people might like different things. Or, to put it another way: if you release a new IP that takes a few risks, it might work, it might bomb. If you just keep churning the same crap that other people have done before and better, then there is a 100% probability that you will fail eventually.
I'd say the game industry. I think the royal family expects the inbreeding jokes at this point.canadamus_prime said:
I think it would've also helped if "Prego" wasn't also a slur for a pregnant woman.
I answered a forum post about my favorite games from this generation and realized that most of them are shooters. Even the strategy games (Valkyria Chronicles) or the puzzle games (like Portal) have shooter elements. They're still amazing games but my favorite games from last generation include driving (like Burnout Revenge) sports games (like Ribbit King) and...whatever the hell Katamari is... also driving? The closest thing to a shooter I really liked from last gen was probably GTA SA.
Still, I would hate to discourage them from making the next Borderlands or Just Cause; even though they're shooters they exemplify variety. For the oversaturation of shooter's at least we did get some really good shooters.
Eh, as dumb as it sounds Demos really don't help games to sell as well as one would think.slash2x said:
That said, it would be great if they started selling games a la carte, like MovieBob was talking about a while ago. You would pay some money to get some of the game, and then buy the rest later if you like it. Or you could even pay less to just get the parts you want. Like buying say the new Tome Raider for less because you didn't get the multi-player.
I think that would be better. It would let people take more risks, because they would still make some money, and if the customers aren't sure about the game they can just buy some of it first, and see if they want the rest later.
But like Bob said, downloading games will have to get a lot more common first, and that's a whole other mess to deal with.
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but the XCOM strategy title had already been in development for years when the XCOM shooter was announced. It wasn't produced as a response to the criticism as you make it sound, it would've come out regardless. It might have been revealed earlier due to it, though, but that's pure speculation on my part.
There is of course no doubt that the focus was completely shifted from the shooter to the strategy title once 2K realized they stumbled upon their "chunky pasta sauce", so there's that, but so far as to wholly release it in response to the outcry? Not really.
Not sure that's what you meant, Jim, but it's how it sounded.
Other than that, solid episode as always. The Jimquisition makes Mondays something to look forward to
There is of course no doubt that the focus was completely shifted from the shooter to the strategy title once 2K realized they stumbled upon their "chunky pasta sauce", so there's that, but so far as to wholly release it in response to the outcry? Not really.
Not sure that's what you meant, Jim, but it's how it sounded.
Other than that, solid episode as always. The Jimquisition makes Mondays something to look forward to
It seems to be a typical thing for companies. When they're small and unknown, they are bolder and willing to take risks. But then when they make it and become successful, they refuse to take those same bold risks that put them where they are. So they fall or change hands and then some new upstart takes their place... and then stops taking risks as well once successful.
Which is why the laughably-named AAA market keeps making military shooter, like we need another one. That was successful so that is seen as a safe investment but the only really safe investment in entertainment media is to take risks otherwise the market, the audience, and the games stagnate. Look at the Madden series and wonder why it's not just a downloadable roster every year instead.
It doesn't seem to be a search for a perfect game but the poorly thought out attempt to do the same thing but better, which just shows how poorly these guys understand people. Jackie Chan understood people and how people held Bruce Lee is high esteem. No one could be better than Bruce Lee. Even someone better than Bruce Lee is not as good as Bruce Lee because Bruce Lee is the best. So Chan took to doing the opposite of Lee and made a lot of money from it. All those hundreds of other guys who were just doing the same thing as Lee, who are they?
People, as a market, tend to distill things into simple terms because individuals do this and as a group those terms become very simple indeed. So when looking for a military shooter, Call of Duty has filled that niche in the collective subconscious. So Battlefield will always be an also-ran. It's kind of like how many people don't know Chełmno, Belzec, Majdanek, Sobibor or Treblinka, but they do know Auschwitz. Not fair, but that is how the collective mind works. Once something fills that niche, you can either hold the number two spot and how that in time a new generation will be born that takes yours as their number one choice or you could do something different
I have to tell you, I don't play many shooters. But even from my position I saw that it was mostly space marines and military shooters. Hence why the the original Bioshock was such a breath of fresh air just in the aesthetics. Even for someone who didn't play games that much at the time. Doing something different is not as risky a choice as following on the coattails of the successful game. You have to sink a lot of resources and capital into an also ran and may not make back your investment whereas something new and different is liable to take that top spot with a smaller investment since you're not trying to outdo anybody. So the search for a perfect game is pointless. Minecraft is already the perfect game, anyway...
Which is why the laughably-named AAA market keeps making military shooter, like we need another one. That was successful so that is seen as a safe investment but the only really safe investment in entertainment media is to take risks otherwise the market, the audience, and the games stagnate. Look at the Madden series and wonder why it's not just a downloadable roster every year instead.
It doesn't seem to be a search for a perfect game but the poorly thought out attempt to do the same thing but better, which just shows how poorly these guys understand people. Jackie Chan understood people and how people held Bruce Lee is high esteem. No one could be better than Bruce Lee. Even someone better than Bruce Lee is not as good as Bruce Lee because Bruce Lee is the best. So Chan took to doing the opposite of Lee and made a lot of money from it. All those hundreds of other guys who were just doing the same thing as Lee, who are they?
People, as a market, tend to distill things into simple terms because individuals do this and as a group those terms become very simple indeed. So when looking for a military shooter, Call of Duty has filled that niche in the collective subconscious. So Battlefield will always be an also-ran. It's kind of like how many people don't know Chełmno, Belzec, Majdanek, Sobibor or Treblinka, but they do know Auschwitz. Not fair, but that is how the collective mind works. Once something fills that niche, you can either hold the number two spot and how that in time a new generation will be born that takes yours as their number one choice or you could do something different
I have to tell you, I don't play many shooters. But even from my position I saw that it was mostly space marines and military shooters. Hence why the the original Bioshock was such a breath of fresh air just in the aesthetics. Even for someone who didn't play games that much at the time. Doing something different is not as risky a choice as following on the coattails of the successful game. You have to sink a lot of resources and capital into an also ran and may not make back your investment whereas something new and different is liable to take that top spot with a smaller investment since you're not trying to outdo anybody. So the search for a perfect game is pointless. Minecraft is already the perfect game, anyway...
Allow me to submit a number of suggestions on Games I would Like...
1- An RPG with a larger focus on Mobility.
So far, the only ones who seem to be doing this on a regular basis are the Japanese. And even then, it's only once or twice every half dozen years. Considering the last ones I vividly remember were all Kingdom Hearts games.
Meanwhile, the West has watered down the meaning or RPG till you get to the point it's not even an RPG in any mechanical sense, and only counts in a narrative sense. (Mass Effect for Example, though I don't exactly have a problem with it.)
And of course, nobody seems to be willing to cater for those of us that want our characters to be jumping around while they fight, and still get stronger Via Level ups.
In fact, maybe just a game that focuses more on mobility even without going full RPG would be fine. I Loved Devil May Cry 4, and the only reason I didn't buy the New DMC is because the freaking New Dante is an Idiot with no Passion or Personality. I'd Rather the old Dante with his Over the top Dramatics, I mean, he freaking acted like a Shakespeare Wannabe in Devil May Cry 4, and it was Glorious!
Oh crap, this is Getting Long, Time to Segue.
2- Ridiculous and over the top Characters and Story (But lose the Prepubescent Pandering based off of Sex appeal.)
You know what would be Fun? Seeing a game where a that has a Were-wolf in a Top Hat fighting Burning Scarecrows that set his home on Fire, that teams up with a Pink Pegasus to bring back seven sacred stones that will give seven warriors their own Mechs to fight off a Sun God who got drunk and decided to invade the world. Along the Way they Team up with A Trigger-happy Kitsune, a Witch that keeps referring to her art as a "Science", A Knight that will only fall in love with whatever girls beat the everloving s*** out of him, A Cyborg that hatched that way from a metal egg for some reason, and A Dragon Girl who has romantic interest in the Witch.
Now that... Would be a fun story.
3- A game where the characters go off the rails just because they heard this story a hundred times and want a new one.
(Self Explanatory.)
4- A game that Blends Science and Fantasy in extreme ways.
Seriously, who doesn't want to see a Mage Fighting off Robots with a Magic Gun that She uses like a wand? or a Knight That uses a Lazer Sword to Decapitate an Ogre? You Following? Now... Imagine doing all this while traveling across space with an Elf, a Cyborg, a Dragon and a Cat girl, all taking up roles as Scientists and Wizards to Study life on other worlds, and they come across an Alien Race of Trolls that are essentially the Larval Form of some offshoot of Fairies, and have built a giant cocoon world in the sky out of gleaming metal and are just beginning they're quest into space.
... This Overlaps with 2.
5- A Game that Makes use of Time Travel as a Game Mechanic.
I've played Two games with this, one was a game about Time Police Cats fighting against Pigs of Space... It was mediocre, but I got many hours of fun out of it. The other was a Real Time Strategy game, and I essentially abused the heck out of its mechanics to do something that brought a magnificent smile to my face... I Couldn't get the looping Back in Time to Work Quick Enough For My Liking in a Pure Time loop, so I just sent them back in Time to the point the events on the timeline are locked in, and then Canceled the command to go back and BAM! Twice the Units... I did that so many times I had an Army of one... I also managed to find a way to make an absolute mess of the Timeline during one mission that gave me trouble, and by the end I was still asking myself what had just happened...
Fun times.
Basically... I while I play I want to be having Fun in such a way so as to maximize my cackling Laughter.
...And yes, both Fun Mechanics and fun/ridiculous stuff contributes to that.
Who wants to be serious anyways?
...Unless of course you're being serious while wearing a Silly hat! And being incredibly serious about your silly hat!
(So to speak.)
1- An RPG with a larger focus on Mobility.
So far, the only ones who seem to be doing this on a regular basis are the Japanese. And even then, it's only once or twice every half dozen years. Considering the last ones I vividly remember were all Kingdom Hearts games.
Meanwhile, the West has watered down the meaning or RPG till you get to the point it's not even an RPG in any mechanical sense, and only counts in a narrative sense. (Mass Effect for Example, though I don't exactly have a problem with it.)
And of course, nobody seems to be willing to cater for those of us that want our characters to be jumping around while they fight, and still get stronger Via Level ups.
In fact, maybe just a game that focuses more on mobility even without going full RPG would be fine. I Loved Devil May Cry 4, and the only reason I didn't buy the New DMC is because the freaking New Dante is an Idiot with no Passion or Personality. I'd Rather the old Dante with his Over the top Dramatics, I mean, he freaking acted like a Shakespeare Wannabe in Devil May Cry 4, and it was Glorious!
Oh crap, this is Getting Long, Time to Segue.
2- Ridiculous and over the top Characters and Story (But lose the Prepubescent Pandering based off of Sex appeal.)
You know what would be Fun? Seeing a game where a that has a Were-wolf in a Top Hat fighting Burning Scarecrows that set his home on Fire, that teams up with a Pink Pegasus to bring back seven sacred stones that will give seven warriors their own Mechs to fight off a Sun God who got drunk and decided to invade the world. Along the Way they Team up with A Trigger-happy Kitsune, a Witch that keeps referring to her art as a "Science", A Knight that will only fall in love with whatever girls beat the everloving s*** out of him, A Cyborg that hatched that way from a metal egg for some reason, and A Dragon Girl who has romantic interest in the Witch.
Now that... Would be a fun story.
3- A game where the characters go off the rails just because they heard this story a hundred times and want a new one.
(Self Explanatory.)
4- A game that Blends Science and Fantasy in extreme ways.
Seriously, who doesn't want to see a Mage Fighting off Robots with a Magic Gun that She uses like a wand? or a Knight That uses a Lazer Sword to Decapitate an Ogre? You Following? Now... Imagine doing all this while traveling across space with an Elf, a Cyborg, a Dragon and a Cat girl, all taking up roles as Scientists and Wizards to Study life on other worlds, and they come across an Alien Race of Trolls that are essentially the Larval Form of some offshoot of Fairies, and have built a giant cocoon world in the sky out of gleaming metal and are just beginning they're quest into space.
... This Overlaps with 2.
5- A Game that Makes use of Time Travel as a Game Mechanic.
I've played Two games with this, one was a game about Time Police Cats fighting against Pigs of Space... It was mediocre, but I got many hours of fun out of it. The other was a Real Time Strategy game, and I essentially abused the heck out of its mechanics to do something that brought a magnificent smile to my face... I Couldn't get the looping Back in Time to Work Quick Enough For My Liking in a Pure Time loop, so I just sent them back in Time to the point the events on the timeline are locked in, and then Canceled the command to go back and BAM! Twice the Units... I did that so many times I had an Army of one... I also managed to find a way to make an absolute mess of the Timeline during one mission that gave me trouble, and by the end I was still asking myself what had just happened...
Fun times.
Basically... I while I play I want to be having Fun in such a way so as to maximize my cackling Laughter.
...And yes, both Fun Mechanics and fun/ridiculous stuff contributes to that.
Who wants to be serious anyways?
...Unless of course you're being serious while wearing a Silly hat! And being incredibly serious about your silly hat!
(So to speak.)
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. Id say this more directly ties into last weeks episode about reasonable budgets for games. Good games with strong accessible mechanics are what sells not specific genres. Some genres of games will have bigger audiences than others but all have their audiences. The best proof of this is Catherine. It is a game that was an unabashed puzzle game produced as a major release instead of a mobile app or xbla/psn game and sold very well for atlus (500k copies in 2011). What other puzzle games have we seen as major console releases this generation before august 2011 and how many have we seen after? Few if any but it shows that if you make a strong game regardless of genre it will sell then all you need to do is make sure you gauge the size of the market accordingly. There really are no dead genres just genres publishers think are dead
After all that talk of pasta sauce and such I was getting hungry.
Luckily you talked about the Royals all fucking each other which me feel rather sickly rather quick, so I suppose it all balances out =P
OT: Another episode with some fine points, Jim.
Luckily you talked about the Royals all fucking each other which me feel rather sickly rather quick, so I suppose it all balances out =P
OT: Another episode with some fine points, Jim.
Red Alert 3? Single player? Hah, good luck. Enjoy being saddled with a brain-dead AI partner.kajinking said:
*tippy typey*
*tippy typey*
*tippy typey*
I...agree. Yeah. Also, I feel like your little qualification about how this episode doesn't contradict your episode on innovation wasn't necessary. Well, maybe it was necessary for the stupid people who think you're talking about "innovation" here. Games like Dishonored and Amnesia and Slender aren't that "innovative," to be perfectly honest. We've had single player stealth games before, and we've had low-budget low-key horror games before. I never at all got the impression you were talking about devs and publishers innovating, I felt this was about not producing one type of game. If I run a bar and the only drink I sell is Budweiser, and then after about a year of financial hardship I finally start selling a wider range of drinks, that isn't innovation. That's just common sense, and I should feel ashamed for not doing it that way in the first place.
If we really have gotten to the point where asking a game developer to make a game that isn't an FPS is the same as asking them to do something innovative, then God help us all.
*tippy typey*
*tippy typey*
I...agree. Yeah. Also, I feel like your little qualification about how this episode doesn't contradict your episode on innovation wasn't necessary. Well, maybe it was necessary for the stupid people who think you're talking about "innovation" here. Games like Dishonored and Amnesia and Slender aren't that "innovative," to be perfectly honest. We've had single player stealth games before, and we've had low-budget low-key horror games before. I never at all got the impression you were talking about devs and publishers innovating, I felt this was about not producing one type of game. If I run a bar and the only drink I sell is Budweiser, and then after about a year of financial hardship I finally start selling a wider range of drinks, that isn't innovation. That's just common sense, and I should feel ashamed for not doing it that way in the first place.
If we really have gotten to the point where asking a game developer to make a game that isn't an FPS is the same as asking them to do something innovative, then God help us all.
And sometimes quite literally.Stormtyrant said:
Also, on the topic of in-bred royal families, I think the best example would be Charles II of Spain. I mean, just look at his family tree for Christ's sake, it's basically just loops upon loops of uncle-fucking:
Despite me loving it when you get all "Rargh EA Activision Uisoft rargh" the coherency and reduced swearing of this episode has actually made it possibly my favourite yet. Not that said publishers are necessarily deserving of getting a break (and I know you weren't ragging on anyone in particular) but it's good to see you give them a chance, so to speak, on something that may have gone over their heads had you done the episode "normally".
Long story short, nice one
Long story short, nice one
Not sure what method of testing is best but I do know that Psychologists often set up experiments where the subjects are lied too about what they are being tested on. This way the researchers can control the variables and view genuine reactions to stimuli.slash2x said:
I am thinking that you bring in gamers and tell them they are play testing an alpha build for some secret project. Keep them waiting in a room for 30 min with different items that they are actually testing for levels of interest. Like poster of different play elements such as guns and cars and a wide range of people. You would then observe (one of the group members is actually a researcher in disguise) what items people gravitate towards, how long it takes them to notice it, and how long it holds their interest. You would then do the same thing with a group that is informed about the nature of the experiment and see how they react to the same elements as the uninformed group.
Compare what was similar and what was different about preferences. Including age groups, gender differences, and other factors.
Word, Jim. I've never understood why it seems to be so hard for publishers to understand that when you make a game in a highly popular genre, you may have a big potential market, but so many competing games you'll only get a small slice of it. Making a new type of game, or an old genre that barely sees one release per year these days, can probably be equally profitable, especially if you keep the costs down.