Jimquisition: Previewed, Preordered, Prescrewed

[Leonbelmont64]

I've seen soo many companies that I've loved and trusted screw up on games this generation Jim it's kinda sickening from bioware, gearbox, sega, konami and square and only one of them I somewhat trust still. Which is square cause out of all the companies square was the only one to man up and take responsibility for there actions instead of trying to blame customers or media, they took the hit for ff14 made it completely free while they restructure and fix the game listening to fans and same thing with ff13 why do you think we got 2 sequels? They are testing new gameplay ideas and fixes for the current failed series so that the next ff and versus don't end up being a dissapointment to fans. Surprisingly they actually listen unlike bioware and swtor who don't listen to squat.

 

[Treblaine]

Mass Effect 3 is what got me out of preordering games, this just confirms it for more people.

I honestly hope people take this to heart and don't preorder games based on previews or brand recogn....

So much for that idea.

Deeply worried about Bioshock Infinite.

Bioshock is not looking good in hindsight and I see where big promises have fallen short.

All I'm going to go is expect the worse and have cautious non-committal hope for the best, then ideally it's a pleasant surprise rather than a crushing disappointment.

 

[Uriain]

Lately, I have been getting less and less interested in buying/pre-ordering games before a collection of reviews come out. The only exception to this is when a demo is released, as that (usually) gives you an idea of what the game could be like.

I have been looking forward to games like God of War, Gears of War, Metal Gear Rising and many more, but now, off the cuff of Aliens: Colonial Marines, I have to take a serious look at my list of games and what will be worth picking up now, which is both highly annoying and very sad :s

 

[Tallim]

Mass Effect 3 is what got me out of preordering games, this just confirms it for more people.

I honestly hope people take this to heart and don't preorder games based on previews or brand recogn....

So much for that idea.

Deeply worried about Bioshock Infinite.

Bioshock is not looking good in hindsight and I see where big promises have fallen short.

All I'm going to go is expect the worse and have cautious non-committal hope for the best, then ideally it's a pleasant surprise rather than a crushing disappointment.

yeah slightly worried too although I still think the original Bioshock has held up and I have some faith in Infinite being good although I'm not pre-ordering it.

I believe the only games I have ever pre-ordered have been Demon's Souls and Dark Souls.

Spoiler: Storm on the horizon

 

[Impluse_101]

Whatever happend to "Never judge a book by it's cover?"
I mean..really.

That's exactly what people need to start considering and remembering.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

Pre-ordering hasn't been a necessity since DDS got out, and I find myself pre-ordering games now much like I would a game that's a year old. It goes on my wishlist in steam, then when I find myself in the mood I buy everything that's on my wishlist. Odds of me tearing open the packaging and playing the game on release night are slim to none.

Granted, if ACM had been switched with Dishonored, the last game I preordered based on a strong pre-release showing, I imagine I'd be pretty ticked off. I haven't really been bitten by the pre-order as of yet, but it's true that that's no reason to ignore it. I was upset with the multiple incentives to pre-order Dishonored, and ended up going with none of them (Steam users didn't get anything). I don't know, does that count as 'voting with my wallet'?

I think it's important that people just make informed decisions rather than spur of the moment purchases and then realizing it sucks later. Reviews, watch the pre-release trailers and interviews, etc. In this case, with seemingly spurious information at every turn, it's hard to win that one, but otherwise I would say it's probably safe to preorder if you're near certain you'll buy the game anyway.

 

[Pinky's Brain]

To this day though, the only game I pre-ordered, that I remember, was Mass Effect 3. That was mainly because everyone else was doing it, I got 1&2 off of Steam on a discount and loved them, and I wanted some of the pre-order stuff. Nothing else has really grabbed me to that point.

Last Bioware game I'll ever pre-order ... I saw the DA2 disaster coming a mile off, but I thought that was their second stringer franchise at best. They weren't going to do that to their money maker right?

Oh how wrong I was ... they didn't just screw the single player game up, they murdered the entire franchise (I got a kick out of seeing them basically beg on twitter "Come on guys, you like prequels right??? Please tell me you like prequels.").

 

[Treblaine]

Mass Effect 3 is what got me out of preordering games, this just confirms it for more people.

I honestly hope people take this to heart and don't preorder games based on previews or brand recogn....

So much for that idea.

Deeply worried about Bioshock Infinite.

Bioshock is not looking good in hindsight and I see where big promises have fallen short.

All I'm going to go is expect the worse and have cautious non-committal hope for the best, then ideally it's a pleasant surprise rather than a crushing disappointment.

yeah slightly worried too although I still think the original Bioshock has held up and I have some faith in Infinite being good although I'm not pre-ordering it.

I believe the only games I have ever pre-ordered have been Demon's Souls and Dark Souls.

Spoiler: Storm on the horizon

By all means, Bioshock was not a bad game, but looking back I can't see it as a great game... which wouldn't be a problem except it promised greatness. It had such a brilliant design and ideas... but I think the execution was fatally flawed.

I mean Big Daddy, brilliant design, brilliant concept... ruined by the approach. I mean the developers went on the record saying it was supposed to be like big-game hunting. But that impression is RUINED by how they are no threat at all till you attack them, you can't run up to an elephant in big game hunting, the point of big game hunting is half the time YOU are being hunted. I mean you can walk right up to a Big Daddy and point a shotgun in their face and they won't even shrug, lay traps all around them and they'll totally ignore you. The player should be terrified of such treading behemoths... but the gameplay missed the point.

If should have been that the player constantly ran and hid from each Big Daddy.

Splicers, another great idea, they were conceptually more than just reskinned stormtroopers or demons, they were people... Except in execution they incessantly attacked you with almost no sense of self-preservation or reasoning. I mean I expected something more like the wild-west or shifting factions and hostility, where they could be bribed or at least some sort of détente maintained at least some of the time.

That's what I'm worried about with Bioshock Infinite, they will do the same, they will have concepts that don't resonate with the gameplay. Too much of a film-school mentality of just putting on a good show... and not using that for substance of gameplay.

 

[Tallim]

Mass Effect 3 is what got me out of preordering games, this just confirms it for more people.

I honestly hope people take this to heart and don't preorder games based on previews or brand recogn....

So much for that idea.

Deeply worried about Bioshock Infinite.

Bioshock is not looking good in hindsight and I see where big promises have fallen short.

All I'm going to go is expect the worse and have cautious non-committal hope for the best, then ideally it's a pleasant surprise rather than a crushing disappointment.

yeah slightly worried too although I still think the original Bioshock has held up and I have some faith in Infinite being good although I'm not pre-ordering it.

I believe the only games I have ever pre-ordered have been Demon's Souls and Dark Souls.

Spoiler: Storm on the horizon

By all means, Bioshock was not a bad game, but looking back I can't see it as a great game... which wouldn't be a problem except it promised greatness. It had such a brilliant design and ideas... but I think the execution was fatally flawed.

I mean Big Daddy, brilliant design, brilliant concept... ruined by the approach. I mean the developers went on the record saying it was supposed to be like big-game hunting. But that impression is RUINED by how they are no threat at all till you attack them, you can't run up to an elephant in big game hunting, the point of big game hunting is half the time YOU are being hunted. I mean you can walk right up to a Big Daddy and point a shotgun in their face and they won't even shrug, lay traps all around them and they'll totally ignore you. The player should be terrified of such treading behemoths... but the gameplay missed the point.

If should have been that the player constantly ran and hid from each Big Daddy.

Splicers, another great idea, they were conceptually more than just reskinned stormtroopers or demons, they were people... Except in execution they incessantly attacked you with almost no sense of self-preservation or reasoning. I mean I expected something more like the wild-west or shifting factions and hostility, where they could be bribed or at least some sort of détente maintained at least some of the time.

That's what I'm worried about with Bioshock Infinite, they will do the same, they will have concepts that don't resonate with the gameplay. Too much of a film-school mentality of just putting on a good show... and not using that for substance of gameplay.

Yeah I can see that. Although I had a lot of fun with Bioshock I felt that pretty much after the first Big Daddy fight you started becoming way to powerful and then the daddies ceased to be that imposing and then the gameplay didn't really match properly with the gravity of the story.

I think there might be a similar problem with Infinite. It will be a great ride but whether it will bring much new to the table I don't know.

 

[Gigano]

Don't preorder games... Problem solved?!

Now, as to why these shitty cashgrab marketing schemes - subscription services, On-disc/Day One DLC, buying unlocks/boosts with real money, data mining etc. etc. are becoming common: Production costs are on the rise. Ever better graphical production values don't come cheap, and investors expect ever better returns to not put their money elsewhere. Better technology alleviate some of this burden, but each AAA game is by now a huge investment. Many a studio will go bust if just one or two titles don't earn anything. But nobody is willing to pay more than $60 for games, which is indeed also a rather hefty price tag to many.

So corners are cut. The writers of many recent games don't seem to have been assigned much of the budget. Parts of the the story are scrapped to later appear as DLC. Bugs seem increasingly common as it's pushed out the door to meet a deadline. While it looks better than ever, other parts begin to suffer.

And since it need to be a guaranteed commercial success - or at least a non-failure - ever more questionable business practises and marketing schemes are put in place, to suck the money that isn't coming in with the fixed $60 admission price from elsewhere in people's pockets. While more risky strategies which are however more fair to the consumer, such as selling digital titles considerably cheaper, or throwing out DRM, isn't put into practise, because you can't afford to fail.

So positive forms of creativity for both product and marketing are stifled, while negative ones flourish. The world is not so kind that it'll allow you to obtain games which look ever better, are being constantly innovated, and never cost more. The price will just be paid in different ways, such as a lack of innovation and shittier business practises designed to leech it gradually.

So, what I'd like to see, was for technical production to take a back seat for a while - certainly they look stellar by now - and let resources be used on other aspects of the product, and to afford the risks of innovation and developing fair business practises that reasonably balances the interest of consumers and industry. Not preordering shit is one step towards giving voice to a wish for such a balance, and should be taken; but not asking the impossible is a more basic one, which should be taken as well.

 

[Stalydan]

I don't think the season pass is a bad idea if I know what to expect from it. The only game I've put money down on the season pass for was The Walking Dead and that was when Episode 3 had come out so I'd heard a lot of good things about it before I'd even played the demo. But because Telltale have got my trust, I'd be more willing to do that again with the next Walking Dead season.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

I mean Big Daddy, brilliant design, brilliant concept... ruined by the approach. I mean the developers went on the record saying it was supposed to be like big-game hunting. But that impression is RUINED by how they are no threat at all till you attack them, you can't run up to an elephant in big game hunting, the point of big game hunting is half the time YOU are being hunted.

I don't understand this argument. Elephants aren't very aggressive creatures. They are not hunters. You can walk up to them without being attacked.

It's the same with Big Daddies. They aren't aggressive. They are also very vulnerable. They rely on their antiquated suits to survive. They aren't some kind of über-monster or predator. They are genetic misfits encased in sub-par armour.

Your comments leave me wondering if you understand the premise of the game.

 

[Nurb]

The biggest problem will be the kiddies having mommy and daddy, who don't know any better, still giving the money for pre-orders

I pre-ordered like, 1 game since 89, and haven't regretted going without ever since. The piddly DLC they use as a carrot can be found elsewhere.

 

[Teylen]

I am just wondering, if you are already so annoyed about preordering,..
What do you think about funding games and even techdemos through Kickstarter (Crowdfunding)?
Which is something even Peter Molyneux resorted to for Project GODUS
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/22cans/project-godus

 

[Treblaine]

I mean Big Daddy, brilliant design, brilliant concept... ruined by the approach. I mean the developers went on the record saying it was supposed to be like big-game hunting. But that impression is RUINED by how they are no threat at all till you attack them, you can't run up to an elephant in big game hunting, the point of big game hunting is half the time YOU are being hunted.

I don't understand this argument. Elephants aren't very aggressive creatures. They are not hunters. You can walk up to them without being attacked.

It's the same with Big Daddies. They aren't aggressive. They are also very vulnerable. They rely on their antiquated suits to survive. They aren't some kind of über-monster or predator. They are genetic misfits encased in sub-par armour.

Your comments leave me wondering if you understand the premise of the game.

Don't pick apart the semantics of big-game hunting, it certainly doesn't leave the impression of easy kills. FYI, elephants that are hunted do NOT allow people to get close to them and worse than that, when started they will kill who startled them. It's only the ones in protected parks that are so fine with humans even then viewing from a distance.

In WWII in the Normandy Campaign there were specialist Bazooka crews sent out to take out tanks in the dense hedgerow, they were told to approach it like Big game hunting. Now that is not the point where you pedantically point out that elephant aren't trying to kill you like enemy tanks, nor make implausible statements like big game hunting is as easy and trivial as walking up to them and casually shooting them behind the ear.

It's the same with Big Daddies. They aren't aggressive.

It's worse than that, they are almost completely passive. The Cops in GTA were more of a threat, if you bumped into their car or did anything other than avoid them you'd get a 1 star rating and they'd be gunning after you. But you can body slam into a Big Daddy with your gun drawn and he may act miffed but he won't initiate any attack till you attack them first. I suppose maybe if you ran into them 20 to thirty times they might attack you.

They aren't some kind of über-monster or predator. They are genetic misfits encased in sub-par armour.

Well that's lame. You don't feel like a clever hunter stalking prey, you feel like a bully setting up pranks on a mentally disabled person who can't recognise the obvious threat in front of them.

Big Daddy from a design point of view are supposed to be intimidating, not pitied misfits, but because they make the AI so damn docile they are simply moving furniture.

They compare far worse than other big bosses of video games like Nemesis from Resident Evil 3, he'd stalk you throughout the game and at any time he might enter your area and will attack you on sight. Not in designate boss fight areas but areas you thought you had cleared.

Your comments leave me wondering if you understand the premise of the game.

Having Big Daddies being far more dangerous, like roving panzer tanks, does not contradict their role in the lore especially after they are repeatedly attacked by splicers and it is their benefit to have dead splicers for the Little Sisters to harvest, they would attack on sight and everyone should run scared from them... as the splicers actually DO, but only the very first encounters. You see it in the first time you meet a Big Daddy, Splicers hear one coming and run away, you are only ignored as you are totally immobilised.

Later it's completely different, splicers and big daddies wander around with each other totally ambivalent to each other.

I mean it should have been if you were spotted by one when you weren't ready you'd have no choice but to run, or play dead. Escape would be based on how they were slower and larger, you could get through holes and hide in places they couldn't get.

I think you are working backwards from "the developers did everything right" rather than think how elements don't work together.

 

[Zeldias]

Are preorders really that bad? My Gamestop lets me take the money I put to a preorder and put it on a gift card, and I don't normally put more than five bucks down anyways unless I'm absolutely certain to love the game (Monster Hunter, Etrian Odyssey). The whole shit with getting junk for preordering is weird, but generally doesn't trouble me, although I think it's hilarious that folks will spend 200 dollars on a game to get stuff like a statue and an art book. However, I'm also saying this as a person who specifically bought a Raidou Kuzunoha game to get the Raiho Kuzunoha Jack Frost plushie and was designing a home-made plushie version of Majin from Majin and the Forsaken Kingdom.

I do really dislike the hustle that Jim talks about, though. Misleading "gameplay" demonstrations, DLC season pass hustles, preorder only exclusives: all that shit is awful. But the act of preordering itself hasn't ever given me any trouble.

 

[Saviordd1]

Yeah well its my 60 dollars that I wasted on a bad game.

bad game? I don't-

you know what? I'm not gonna go there

good day

Writing has a lot of plot holes

Beginning is bad

Plot is meh

Main gameplay system destroyed

Forced characterization

Broken character arcs

Destroyed Cerberus

All around laziness

 

[chiefohara]

I dont know if putting a deposit down on a game with Gamestop is strictly pre-ordering to the same detrimetal effect on the industry that Jim is describing, but i have been known to do it.

Mainly it was to guarantee a collectors edition of a game i really like such as FO3, FO:NV, The Gears games etc for myself.

And that is pretty much my only incentive for a deposit/pre-order. Guarantee a collectors edition for myself. I don't see the point otherwise, you can get the standard editions forever.

What will kill pre-ordering or deposits for me is if the collector editions start becoming crap. The ME3 collectors edition was pretty poor in my opinion. No mannual, small uninspiring box, DLC which should have been part of the game in the first place being highlighted as collectors only edition blah blah blah.

A:CM only had what? extra weapons that i probably wont ever use anyway? no thanks.

Something nice like the Fallout new vegas collectors edition with documentary dvd, graphic novel, recreation of the casino chips in a nice little case.... Hell Yeah! ill put a deposit on that!

Gears of war 2 and 3 which had personal effects from the main characters included in the collectors edition, Hell yeah! Opening the COG flag to see Felix's personal effects wrapped inside had a brilliant immersion effect on me, felt like he packed it himself and i was looking into the mans inner soul.

Stuff like that... yes. I will deposit and continue to deposit.

Extra weapon and weapon skin with your pre-order crap though... no thanks.

P.S.
I feel for you Jim, we all know how much you love the Aliens franchise

 

[chiefohara]

snip

You are on the ball with a lot of what you are saying, but the movie trailer anaolgy isn't really fair.

You watch a movie trailer, you know all that footage is going to be in the movie. The A:CM trailer showed a lot of stuff that wasn't in the game. Thats where the main fault is.