Jimquisition: Previewed, Preordered, Prescrewed

[barbzilla]

I have only pre-ordered 6 games over all my years in gaming and I haven't been screwed once.
Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3, Halo 3, Halo ODST, Halo Reach and Halo 4 are all games that I have enjoyed and I don't regret a thing.

The problem with TB is his paranoia of the "Fans." A "fan" to him is a scary being who drags the video game industry back. An evil creature who can't be trusted and is the reason that, he feels, the industry is crap. I mean I also don't like his hatred to consoles but that is another argument.

Pre-ordering is not bad, If you like the free shit you get, do it. I don't get how being screwed on pre-ordering one game makes all of pre-ordering wrong. I get that you are angry because your game sucked but it is one game.

To answer your question at the end:
Pre-Ordering is a bad practice because it encourages sales before there is a product to sell. That in and of itself doesn't seem as terrible as all that, but it is. What we encourage by giving our money away before the game is made is allowing the publisher/developer leeway to commit acts that can skew the final product. They know the game will be successful no matter what they do at that point, so they can (if they choose to) stop production on the game you have pre-ordered and still make a profit. While it doesn't mean that is what they will do, it is something that can and has happened.

Imagine you have a child. You give the child a project (lets say: pulling the weeds in the garden) and tell him that when he finishes his project you will give him a new video game. The child will get out there and start working hard and fast to get the project done. He knows that you will come check his work before you give him the game, so he does a thorough job. After he is done and you check the garden, you give him his game. That is how normal business practices work. Now lets see how the pre-order theory works in the same scenario. You tell the child that if he pulls all the weeds in the garden you will give him a new video game. The child goes out and starts working hard and fast, but half way through it he calls you outside to check the garden, you see his work and think he is doing a great job. Seeing as how he is doing so well, you say "wow, wonderful job. Here is your video game kid" and you go back inside. At this point the kid has the video game in his hands, how good of a job do you think he will do on the rest of the garden...

True if the kid is good he will finish the job at the same level he started it, but we are talking about developers who have a habit of screwing their customers over. These people will not continue at the same level they started at. They will rush the rest and go play with their new toy (or your money as it were).

This is why the practice is bad.

I understand the your reason but I don't believe that would ever happen, The game can and will be shipped out early but not because of your reason. The people who make the game do not get paid depending on how well the game sells. The producers or company make more money depending on how well the game sells. So yes, the producers could push out the game early if they wanted just the pre-order sales.

That being said I don't believe that a game will suck because they got lazy because of pre-orders. They game would have sucked weather they got pre-orders or not.
I do realize that games having the option to pre-order like a year in advance could possible lead to what you were talking about but I don't believe that it would ever happen. The game would suck not matter if it was pre-ordered or not. Don't count your chickens before they hatch, is a saying that works here. No company is going to say that they are just happy with the pre-order sales and they don't want to make more money.

I get what you are saying but i don't believe that would ever happen and really Gearbox only has one good game series (Borderlands). Jim said that the company had good will. Really? All I see is a group of people doing knee jerk reaction to one game that sucked. It is like my friends pre-ordering ff13-2 and getting mad at pre-ordering because his game sucked. FF-13 sucked.

I guess I am just really careful with with my pre-orders. The only risk I took was with Halo 4 and I am having lots of fun with it. I guess the lessen is be carful pre-ordering and know it is a risk but the bane of gaming? I didn't think so

I don't think you have to stop pre-ordering period. I just think that as pre-orders become more popular and we are pre-ordering much further in advance we will run into this issue. I didn't mean to make it sound that like that is the issue currently (my apologies if it did). I honestly didn't care so much about the A:CM, my only real gripe with it is the AI. I have horrible eye sight and never really notice graphical differences (unless they are extreme). I have always been on the pre-orders can turn bad bandwagon though. We have already seen a few cases of it going bad though. The most notorious being Diablo 3 and Mass Effect 3 (3s in general seem to be cursed). And Diablo 3 wasn't even that bad of a game, it just wasn't Diablo 2 LoD.

If the publisher wants to sell pre-orders they need to offer something substantial, and not just something ripped off from the game. I like the pre-orders that include a copy of the previous game and/or have a discount associated with it.

 

[Movitz]

I don't think I've ever preordered a game.

Apparently, I rock.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

I feel pretty safe in preordering Pokemon X and Y. I just... have this feeling in my gut after playing every other Pokemon game, I'm gonna like it. I rarely preorder, but when I do... I'm usually right.

Although, with that said, I'm cautious for the various reasons Jim presented.

That would be because Game Freak has really improved upon the Pokemon franchise with each generation. I've played almost every generation (the third being the exception) and they've improved on almost every aspect, from story to gameplay.

Consider Black 2 and White 2 - your rival, Hugh, goes through his own character development as the story progresses. Likewise, he goes through a range of emotions as the circumstances are presented to him. Then, you have the Team Boss, Colress, whose only obsession is the strength of Pokemon through his research and nothing else. When you take a closer look at their names and personalities, especially when in their Japanese context, you can tell Game Freak put a good deal of thought into their supporting characters.

Hugh, "Hue" - range of colors. In this case, range of emotions, which can be derived from colors. For those who are confused on this topic, look up "mood ring".

Colress, "Achroma" - Achroma, meaning lack of color or "colorless". In this case, his sole desire, his research, is the only thing that he outwardly expresses.

The character "N", whom was a major presence in the previous installment, is now breifly encountered in Black and White 2. Yet, those who've played the first Gen 5 games will notice a distinct change in N's behavior; especially when you go to challenge him after beating the Elite Four and Champion for the first time. Where N was completely closed off to human interaction before, he now understands people better thanks to the protagonist of Black/White. Also consider his battle animation differences: in Black/White, he unfolds his arms and has the look of a more-than-serious trainer; in Black 2/White 2, he unfolds his arms and smiles - something that he never showed in Black/White.

As for the pre-order aspects of what Jim brought up - he's ultimately correct. However, I, too, pre-ordered both X and Y solely for the fact that Game Freak has improved on their product from installment to installment. And what they mess up on, they take note of and correct it for future installments. This shows devotion not only to their consumer base but to their franchise, as well.

That said, I did also pre-order Starcraft 2: Heart of the Swarm...and I'm seriously reconsidering that decision based on their recent and not-so-recent actions.

 

[DRTJR]

As a die hard Nintendo Fanatic, I have pre-ordered every game but one in the past year(which was the adventure time game) and I have yet to leave disappointed.

 

[Lilani]

I try to match my purchasing patterns with the amount of appreciation I want to show to the developer and/or publisher. The only game I've ever preordered was Portal 2. I knew the kind of quality to expect from Valve, and as expected they delivered on that expectation and then some.

On the other hand, I waited a good six months before purchasing Mass Effect 3, because I didn't want to give $60 or another launch-day purchase to EA and their terribly exploitative business practices. So by the time I bought it, it was down to a more palatable $40, and Bioware had released the DLC that "fixed" the ending.

 

[Lilani]

The next video game crash can't come soon enough. Hopefully it won't be the death of the Escapist.

I feel like a video game "crash" is a bit too dramatic, because the only time something "crashes" with disastrous results like the Atari crash is when all of an industry's eggs are in one basket and then that basket explodes. The games industry is very diverse now, no longer in the hands of just a couple of companies. You've got EA, Valve, Square Enix, Capcom, Bethesda, CD Projeckt, Ubisoft, Team Ninja, Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony, Apple, Android, Sega...and so many more I just can't think of at the moment. The games industry is more diverse than it has ever been. It would take multiple companies failing at once for it to be called a "crash" at this point, which only becomes less likely as more companies take the stage and more consoles and outlets for games emerge. Even if a big player like EA fails, it'll be split up into parts like THQ was and other companies will rise to fill the gap.

Even if the biggest tree in a forest falls, that doesn't mean the entire forest is destroyed. That tree gets reabsorbed by the smaller trees around it, and those other small trees grow since they're no longer in the shade of the big one. The only way the forest can be destroyed is if all of the trees are gone. The games industry isn't a single tree now, it's a forest.

God that was more existential than I intended it to be.

 

[Leonbelmont64]

I've seen soo many companies that I've loved and trusted screw up on games this generation Jim it's kinda sickening from bioware, gearbox, sega, konami and square and only one of them I somewhat trust still. Which is square cause out of all the companies square was the only one to man up and take responsibility for there actions instead of trying to blame customers or media, they took the hit for ff14 made it completely free while they restructure and fix the game listening to fans and same thing with ff13 why do you think we got 2 sequels? They are testing new gameplay ideas and fixes for the current failed series so that the next ff and versus don't end up being a dissapointment to fans. Surprisingly they actually listen unlike bioware and swtor who don't listen to squat.

 

[Treblaine]

Mass Effect 3 is what got me out of preordering games, this just confirms it for more people.

I honestly hope people take this to heart and don't preorder games based on previews or brand recogn....

So much for that idea.

Deeply worried about Bioshock Infinite.

Bioshock is not looking good in hindsight and I see where big promises have fallen short.

All I'm going to go is expect the worse and have cautious non-committal hope for the best, then ideally it's a pleasant surprise rather than a crushing disappointment.

 

[Uriain]

Lately, I have been getting less and less interested in buying/pre-ordering games before a collection of reviews come out. The only exception to this is when a demo is released, as that (usually) gives you an idea of what the game could be like.

I have been looking forward to games like God of War, Gears of War, Metal Gear Rising and many more, but now, off the cuff of Aliens: Colonial Marines, I have to take a serious look at my list of games and what will be worth picking up now, which is both highly annoying and very sad :s

 

[Tallim]

Mass Effect 3 is what got me out of preordering games, this just confirms it for more people.

I honestly hope people take this to heart and don't preorder games based on previews or brand recogn....

So much for that idea.

Deeply worried about Bioshock Infinite.

Bioshock is not looking good in hindsight and I see where big promises have fallen short.

All I'm going to go is expect the worse and have cautious non-committal hope for the best, then ideally it's a pleasant surprise rather than a crushing disappointment.

yeah slightly worried too although I still think the original Bioshock has held up and I have some faith in Infinite being good although I'm not pre-ordering it.

I believe the only games I have ever pre-ordered have been Demon's Souls and Dark Souls.

Spoiler: Storm on the horizon

 

[Impluse_101]

Whatever happend to "Never judge a book by it's cover?"
I mean..really.

That's exactly what people need to start considering and remembering.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

Pre-ordering hasn't been a necessity since DDS got out, and I find myself pre-ordering games now much like I would a game that's a year old. It goes on my wishlist in steam, then when I find myself in the mood I buy everything that's on my wishlist. Odds of me tearing open the packaging and playing the game on release night are slim to none.

Granted, if ACM had been switched with Dishonored, the last game I preordered based on a strong pre-release showing, I imagine I'd be pretty ticked off. I haven't really been bitten by the pre-order as of yet, but it's true that that's no reason to ignore it. I was upset with the multiple incentives to pre-order Dishonored, and ended up going with none of them (Steam users didn't get anything). I don't know, does that count as 'voting with my wallet'?

I think it's important that people just make informed decisions rather than spur of the moment purchases and then realizing it sucks later. Reviews, watch the pre-release trailers and interviews, etc. In this case, with seemingly spurious information at every turn, it's hard to win that one, but otherwise I would say it's probably safe to preorder if you're near certain you'll buy the game anyway.

 

[Pinky's Brain]

To this day though, the only game I pre-ordered, that I remember, was Mass Effect 3. That was mainly because everyone else was doing it, I got 1&2 off of Steam on a discount and loved them, and I wanted some of the pre-order stuff. Nothing else has really grabbed me to that point.

Last Bioware game I'll ever pre-order ... I saw the DA2 disaster coming a mile off, but I thought that was their second stringer franchise at best. They weren't going to do that to their money maker right?

Oh how wrong I was ... they didn't just screw the single player game up, they murdered the entire franchise (I got a kick out of seeing them basically beg on twitter "Come on guys, you like prequels right??? Please tell me you like prequels.").

 

[Treblaine]

Mass Effect 3 is what got me out of preordering games, this just confirms it for more people.

I honestly hope people take this to heart and don't preorder games based on previews or brand recogn....

So much for that idea.

Deeply worried about Bioshock Infinite.

Bioshock is not looking good in hindsight and I see where big promises have fallen short.

All I'm going to go is expect the worse and have cautious non-committal hope for the best, then ideally it's a pleasant surprise rather than a crushing disappointment.

yeah slightly worried too although I still think the original Bioshock has held up and I have some faith in Infinite being good although I'm not pre-ordering it.

I believe the only games I have ever pre-ordered have been Demon's Souls and Dark Souls.

Spoiler: Storm on the horizon

By all means, Bioshock was not a bad game, but looking back I can't see it as a great game... which wouldn't be a problem except it promised greatness. It had such a brilliant design and ideas... but I think the execution was fatally flawed.

I mean Big Daddy, brilliant design, brilliant concept... ruined by the approach. I mean the developers went on the record saying it was supposed to be like big-game hunting. But that impression is RUINED by how they are no threat at all till you attack them, you can't run up to an elephant in big game hunting, the point of big game hunting is half the time YOU are being hunted. I mean you can walk right up to a Big Daddy and point a shotgun in their face and they won't even shrug, lay traps all around them and they'll totally ignore you. The player should be terrified of such treading behemoths... but the gameplay missed the point.

If should have been that the player constantly ran and hid from each Big Daddy.

Splicers, another great idea, they were conceptually more than just reskinned stormtroopers or demons, they were people... Except in execution they incessantly attacked you with almost no sense of self-preservation or reasoning. I mean I expected something more like the wild-west or shifting factions and hostility, where they could be bribed or at least some sort of détente maintained at least some of the time.

That's what I'm worried about with Bioshock Infinite, they will do the same, they will have concepts that don't resonate with the gameplay. Too much of a film-school mentality of just putting on a good show... and not using that for substance of gameplay.

 

[Tallim]

Mass Effect 3 is what got me out of preordering games, this just confirms it for more people.

I honestly hope people take this to heart and don't preorder games based on previews or brand recogn....

So much for that idea.

Deeply worried about Bioshock Infinite.

Bioshock is not looking good in hindsight and I see where big promises have fallen short.

All I'm going to go is expect the worse and have cautious non-committal hope for the best, then ideally it's a pleasant surprise rather than a crushing disappointment.

yeah slightly worried too although I still think the original Bioshock has held up and I have some faith in Infinite being good although I'm not pre-ordering it.

I believe the only games I have ever pre-ordered have been Demon's Souls and Dark Souls.

Spoiler: Storm on the horizon

By all means, Bioshock was not a bad game, but looking back I can't see it as a great game... which wouldn't be a problem except it promised greatness. It had such a brilliant design and ideas... but I think the execution was fatally flawed.

I mean Big Daddy, brilliant design, brilliant concept... ruined by the approach. I mean the developers went on the record saying it was supposed to be like big-game hunting. But that impression is RUINED by how they are no threat at all till you attack them, you can't run up to an elephant in big game hunting, the point of big game hunting is half the time YOU are being hunted. I mean you can walk right up to a Big Daddy and point a shotgun in their face and they won't even shrug, lay traps all around them and they'll totally ignore you. The player should be terrified of such treading behemoths... but the gameplay missed the point.

If should have been that the player constantly ran and hid from each Big Daddy.

Splicers, another great idea, they were conceptually more than just reskinned stormtroopers or demons, they were people... Except in execution they incessantly attacked you with almost no sense of self-preservation or reasoning. I mean I expected something more like the wild-west or shifting factions and hostility, where they could be bribed or at least some sort of détente maintained at least some of the time.

That's what I'm worried about with Bioshock Infinite, they will do the same, they will have concepts that don't resonate with the gameplay. Too much of a film-school mentality of just putting on a good show... and not using that for substance of gameplay.

Yeah I can see that. Although I had a lot of fun with Bioshock I felt that pretty much after the first Big Daddy fight you started becoming way to powerful and then the daddies ceased to be that imposing and then the gameplay didn't really match properly with the gravity of the story.

I think there might be a similar problem with Infinite. It will be a great ride but whether it will bring much new to the table I don't know.

 

[Gigano]

Don't preorder games... Problem solved?!

Now, as to why these shitty cashgrab marketing schemes - subscription services, On-disc/Day One DLC, buying unlocks/boosts with real money, data mining etc. etc. are becoming common: Production costs are on the rise. Ever better graphical production values don't come cheap, and investors expect ever better returns to not put their money elsewhere. Better technology alleviate some of this burden, but each AAA game is by now a huge investment. Many a studio will go bust if just one or two titles don't earn anything. But nobody is willing to pay more than $60 for games, which is indeed also a rather hefty price tag to many.

So corners are cut. The writers of many recent games don't seem to have been assigned much of the budget. Parts of the the story are scrapped to later appear as DLC. Bugs seem increasingly common as it's pushed out the door to meet a deadline. While it looks better than ever, other parts begin to suffer.

And since it need to be a guaranteed commercial success - or at least a non-failure - ever more questionable business practises and marketing schemes are put in place, to suck the money that isn't coming in with the fixed $60 admission price from elsewhere in people's pockets. While more risky strategies which are however more fair to the consumer, such as selling digital titles considerably cheaper, or throwing out DRM, isn't put into practise, because you can't afford to fail.

So positive forms of creativity for both product and marketing are stifled, while negative ones flourish. The world is not so kind that it'll allow you to obtain games which look ever better, are being constantly innovated, and never cost more. The price will just be paid in different ways, such as a lack of innovation and shittier business practises designed to leech it gradually.

So, what I'd like to see, was for technical production to take a back seat for a while - certainly they look stellar by now - and let resources be used on other aspects of the product, and to afford the risks of innovation and developing fair business practises that reasonably balances the interest of consumers and industry. Not preordering shit is one step towards giving voice to a wish for such a balance, and should be taken; but not asking the impossible is a more basic one, which should be taken as well.

 

[Stalydan]

I don't think the season pass is a bad idea if I know what to expect from it. The only game I've put money down on the season pass for was The Walking Dead and that was when Episode 3 had come out so I'd heard a lot of good things about it before I'd even played the demo. But because Telltale have got my trust, I'd be more willing to do that again with the next Walking Dead season.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

I mean Big Daddy, brilliant design, brilliant concept... ruined by the approach. I mean the developers went on the record saying it was supposed to be like big-game hunting. But that impression is RUINED by how they are no threat at all till you attack them, you can't run up to an elephant in big game hunting, the point of big game hunting is half the time YOU are being hunted.

I don't understand this argument. Elephants aren't very aggressive creatures. They are not hunters. You can walk up to them without being attacked.

It's the same with Big Daddies. They aren't aggressive. They are also very vulnerable. They rely on their antiquated suits to survive. They aren't some kind of über-monster or predator. They are genetic misfits encased in sub-par armour.

Your comments leave me wondering if you understand the premise of the game.

 

[Nurb]

The biggest problem will be the kiddies having mommy and daddy, who don't know any better, still giving the money for pre-orders

I pre-ordered like, 1 game since 89, and haven't regretted going without ever since. The piddly DLC they use as a carrot can be found elsewhere.

 

[Teylen]

I am just wondering, if you are already so annoyed about preordering,..
What do you think about funding games and even techdemos through Kickstarter (Crowdfunding)?
Which is something even Peter Molyneux resorted to for Project GODUS
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/22cans/project-godus