Jimquisition: Salt Of The Earth - A Steam Fail Story

[ThatNickGuy]

Woo-hoo! I got a brief shot of fame in that tweet screenshot! Thank God for Muxwell for his insipid forum wipes. And of course, thank God for Jim!

 

[Atmos Duality]

Steam's greatest sin was their idealistic approach to game approval - let the gaming community decide what gets on our market. It turns out we are really, really bad at it.

Shit like this really does kill whatever hope I have in the free market (and by extension, part of humanity).
Now, I'm no genius, but for all of my faults at least I'm smart enough to do my fucking research before I buy games.
And I legitimately have played games on Early Access (and from Kickstarter) that were well worth the money.

But seriously. If shovelware scam crap is such an epidemic on Steam, then I really must question what the fuck is wrong with people. No, really: How can they not figure out this fucking "Muxwell" has nothing to offer?
A quick google search was enough to tell me this guy had NOTHING. A trip to the game's forums took even less time.

Or has the average Steam user regressed to the level of earthworms when I wasn't looking?
Because that's the only thing I can do to rationalize what's happened: Consumers who became so used to instant-gratification that they've regressed to spineless, brainless clods who eat every morsel of dirt placed before them.

*Add To Cart...Install*...MUNCH MUNCH OM NOM..NOM..*SPITS* "PLEH! BAD DIRTZ!!! VALVE FIX DIS!! DURR..."

 

[Alterego-X]

But seriously. If shovelware scam crap is such an epidemic on Steam, then I really must question what the fuck is wrong with people.
Or has the average Steam user regressed to the level of earthworms when I wasn't looking?

It's not "the average" user. The average user is buying whatever is popular at the time.

Whether we look at Kickstarter, preorders, or early access, this always affects a smaller circle of core gamers, who know very well that they are risking money, in fact they are quite proud of how they are doing something different from the filthy masses who are "playing it safe" with AAA sequels.

The problem is with the punditry that treats this as a huge problem that affects ordinary consumers.

 

[Thanatos2k]

But seriously. If shovelware scam crap is such an epidemic on Steam, then I really must question what the fuck is wrong with people.
Or has the average Steam user regressed to the level of earthworms when I wasn't looking?

It's not "the average" user. The average user is buying whatever is popular at the time.

Whether we look at Kickstarter, preorders, or early access, this always affects a smaller circle of core gamers, who know very well that they are risking money, in fact they are quite proud of how they are doing something different from the filthy masses who are "playing it safe" with AAA sequels.

The problem is with the punditry that treats this as a huge problem that affects ordinary consumers.

It's still a problem for everyone. If your average AAA mainstream gamer decides to step outside their comfort zone for just a moment and buys one of the many other games on Steam, they're likely to get one of these turds because they don't do research.

Now having been burned by paying money for garbage, they go back into the AAA popular games only bubble and never emerge.

We are doing a disservice to gaming allowing these things to exist.

 

[omnifarious]

So TL;DR of this episode: "Hey, look theres a really shitty early accsess game made by a scamming fucktard. Let's make steam more closed platform, because I was right".

In all fairness, Jim didn't say to make Steam a closed platform. Steam did just fine before Early Access and Green Light were even a thing. In fact, there really isn't much mention of Steam in the video this go around, even though he did elude towards his previous statements in regards to the issue of QC on Steam.

I do agree with you that tossing blame of a broken system is the metaphorical equivalent protesting a grocery store because they received a shipment of rotten meat. With that being said, however, it's difficult to not blame said grocery store if it continued to sell rotten meat, despite the protesters at its doors. And as of me writing this, Steam hasn't pulled Earth: Year 2088 from its storefront, despite everything that's been revealed about the game.

Seriously Jim, I said something in your last steam quality control episode that bears repeating:

Welcome to PC Gaming. The only quality control here, is the word of mouth and reviews. Trust em as you would trust the weather report. This is how it has always been, It's the fundamental tradeoff of an open platform. Either learn to live with it or go back to consoles, I really dont care wich.

If word of mouth and reviews are the best there is for PC Gaming, how does that invalidate the prime context of the video? To be honest, had I not watched the video I wouldn't have known about Earth: Year 2088 and all the shenanigans surrounding it. With that, just saying this is how it has always been doesn't justify a whole lot. It could just be me, but I get a sense that there's a hint of "people need to be more vigilant" and ON THAT I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE. The term 'May the buyers beware' has existed long before the telephone was invented.

Also, a scammer saying that everyone who's critizising them is troll, where have I seen this behaviour before? It was with a certain feminist who got a handsome sum of money to do youtube videos that she could have clearly done even without the money.

It's difficult to argue this without sounding like a white knight to either end, so I'll just put this out as bluntly as possible. Her youtube videos did nothing to change the gaming industry. She got her money, she made her series, it was a thing for about a week and now she's barely a memory. Hell, by the end of it all the worse that happened was her videos being contested by other feminists. On one hand, she won. On the other hand, what a bittersweet victory it was...

The biggest problem I have with this statement is this: when you look at the bigger picture, the two really don't relate to each other all that well. One scammed with a product and then paraded the criticism under the flag of 'victim' in an attempt to save face. The other scammed the promise of a product and then paraded the criticism under the flag of 'victim' in an attempt to raise more money for the promise of a product.

 

[Raku-Gosha]

Way to go Escapist lol, somehow bringing Anita into it. You go you, yea..

OT: I never understood Early-Access it screams of Bullshit, visible, physical, smelly Shit just lumped in front of you. With no attempts of hiding, and people eat. it. up. urgh.

Counter argument- but you don't have to buy it if you don't want to. I wish that were true straw man but if it exists now, it will only grow with our without my consent.

If I were to do Early-Access for the supposed claim of I need moneys, or tell me how to make my game, I'd have the decency to sell it in the range of 1-5 bucks dependent on quality and hours of play available. Not charge 20+ and create a troll tavern lol. Really makes us all look bad when this stuff happens.

 

[Alterego-X]

It's still a problem for everyone. If your average AAA mainstream gamer decides to step outside their comfort zone for just a moment and buys one of the many other games on Steam, they're likely to get one of these turds because they don't do research.

Now having been burned by paying money for garbage, they go back into the AAA popular games only bubble and never emerge.

We are doing a disservice to gaming allowing these things to exist.

The thing is, that contrary to how the blind-buying hipsters see the world, the audience is not *actually* that black and white, it's a spectrum.

It's not like everyone who isn't buying Early Access games at entirely random, is this boogeyman stereotype of a narrow-minded mainstream-gamer.

There are people who only ever played a handful of AAA games, there are people who mostly buy AAA games though also bought some of the biggest viral hits like Minecraft and Rust, there are people who are opening up to some niche genres like strategy games, or adventure games. There are people who are buying indie games that are famous enough to be recommended on Rockpapershotgun, and then there are those who buy several indie games a month just because they have been recommended by some users on a small indie gaming forum.

And THEN there are people who are gloating about how they are searching for hidden gems on entirely untested waters.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Whatever. If not for Steam, that guy could still do the exact same thing on his own website. PC gaming is an open platform.

The problem is that by associating with Valve/Steam, the product gains a veneer of legitimacy, deservedly or not. I could use a free hosting site to sell HDMI cables that had a 40% chance of making your television or monitor explode, but if I managed to get them on the shelves in Best Buy- and could wipe any negative reviews off their site- that'd definitely increase my sales.

Valve needs to do something about this, even if it's merely reducing the amount of control Greenlight producers have over their forums on Steam. There's too much incentive to run a scam and virtually no penalty for getting caught out, and every single incident like this splatters a little more mud on Steam's reputation.

 

[Gigano]

Well, who exactly is buying PC games through digital distribution without doing a quick ~20 second Google search about the title they're about to buy for $20?! A developer who delete negative feedback on one platform will obviously find it multiplying on every other one.

The consumer empowerment this information highway entail renders digital supply side hijinks virtually moot. I for one would rather have an open platform with a sea of shit, if this enables a rare few islands of unusual niche gems to spring forth. It's not like it'll take me long to find out about any PC title which catches my eye[footnote]If I'm on a digital console store, I'll have to boot up my PC though. And if I'm at a physical store, I'll have to whip out my smartphone. Oh, the stress![/footnote].

Shitty shovelware has always been put out there, but never has it been easier to find info on it. While the developer put out an unfinished game - the this being a condition of Early Access - game, no false advertising appear to have been involved.

Bottom line is, if you can spend $20 without spending 20 seconds researching what exactly you're spending it on, then your complaints are hard to take seriously.

 

[Dragonbums]

Man Jim I remember watching your Squirty Play video of that game.

You forgot to mention that not only did the dev put shitty text over the intro image, but he also put garbage default Photoshop texture overtop of it as well.

 

[Pete_alreadyinuse]

But seriously. If shovelware scam crap is such an epidemic on Steam, then I really must question what the fuck is wrong with people.
Or has the average Steam user regressed to the level of earthworms when I wasn't looking?

It's not "the average" user. The average user is buying whatever is popular at the time.

Whether we look at Kickstarter, preorders, or early access, this always affects a smaller circle of core gamers, who know very well that they are risking money, in fact they are quite proud of how they are doing something different from the filthy masses who are "playing it safe" with AAA sequels.

The problem is with the punditry that treats this as a huge problem that affects ordinary consumers.

It's still a problem for everyone. If your average AAA mainstream gamer decides to step outside their comfort zone for just a moment and buys one of the many other games on Steam, they're likely to get one of these turds because they don't do research.

Now having been burned by paying money for garbage, they go back into the AAA popular games only bubble and never emerge.

We are doing a disservice to gaming allowing these things to exist.

Who buys random games? Let us take another entertainment medium, movies. I can buy the movie "Fantasy Mission Force" on amazon. I know it, it is a very bad movie, some including me have watched it because watching bad movies with friends can be fun but I do not think that anybody considers it a good movie.
How is your statement different from saying that the movie being on Amazon is a problem because people who usually only watch blockbusters might step out of their bubble and buy it and then never watch a non blockbuster again? Or do you think Amazon selling such a movie is a problem too?
It seems to me that some people here are creating a caricature of an uninformed buyer who buys game without really looking at them but non the less finds an extremely obscure game to bolster their arguments.

 

[newwiseman]

To me, the only games which should be sold on Early Access, are those which can be sold for the labelled price, and without modification be considered a proper purchase. Minecraft, Kerbal and a few others are good examples of that. Those who fail at it miserably are: 2066, Planetary Annihilators, Wasteland 2, and some others.

If you want 20$ or 30$ from me now, you need to give me something WORTH 20$ or 30$ now, not something worth nothing with the promise of something worth the money I pay in the future.

Now, to annex the Sudetenland.

Not to mention MineCraft started out at like $5 while in Alpha and went from around $8-20 over the course of the beta as content was added, and the early adopters were thanked by not having to pay anymore for future updates. A perfect example of how to do early access if ever there was one.

 

[Alterego-X]

Whatever. If not for Steam, that guy could still do the exact same thing on his own website. PC gaming is an open platform.

The problem is that by associating with Valve/Steam, the product gains a veneer of legitimacy, deservedly or not. Every single incident like this splatters a little more mud on Steam's reputation.

And there lies one solution for the whole problem. Best Buy gives legitimacy to it's wares, because it has quality control and a limited amount of sales. On the other hand there is Ebay, another quite successful business model, that doesn't offer much quality control against exploding monitor brands as long as any of it's sellers wants to keep putting it up, and only offers the legal basics of customer protection. And people know that, and that's why they use it.


Sure, Valve can go back to being a walled garden... but becoming known as the platform that lets in everything, as the ebay of game developers, is also a way to avoid giving legitimacy to stuff like that, by making it clear that Valve is NOT a seal of quality.

The latter path would make more sense, because people who have a specific game in mind to buy are unlikely to abandon Valve if it offers the very game they are looking for, while people who enjoy browsing through piles of unproven games, have nowhere else to go to.

 

[Khanjali]

This isn't the first time something like this happened on Steam.
Granted, that involved stolen Skyrim mods being hosted by someone claiming to be their creator on the Steam Workshop, but the culprit there did the exact same thing Muxwell is/was doing (no idea if this is still going on) with his game. Valve responded by changing developer privileges and permanent banning the thief's Steam account, but I don't think that kind of response has extended to Early Access abusers yet.
With this, it should happen sometime soon.

In no way is this Valve's fault. If something can be abused/exploited in some form or fashion, it will happen for as long as the problem isn't fixed.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

The humiliating story of Earth: Year 2066 is a good example of just how badly Steam can be abused.

Jim, why do you resort to childish personal attacks like "man-child" and "little boy" in your video? This guy's actions are bad enough on their own that there's penny of room to criticise his actions, without resorting to such attacks on masculinity. It's just completely unnecessary when there's so much other material to work with.

Would you have said similar things if this person was female? Would you have called her an "immature *****" or "little girl"?

 

[Makabriel]

Hmmm...I wonder what would happen if someone dared to, I don't know...threaten Muxwell with litigation for violating people's rights to their opinions? Seriously...I say hit these idiots with the potential for the worst case scenario and they may stop this bullcrap.

What do you think, Jim?

You have no rights on a private forum. They can delete anything they want to. Doesn't mean there won't be retaliation by the users, and make you look like a complete D!@k, but thems the breaks.

 

[Varrdy]

To me, the only games which should be sold on Early Access, are those which can be sold for the labelled price, and without modification be considered a proper purchase. Minecraft, Kerbal and a few others are good examples of that. Those who fail at it miserably are: 2066, Planetary Annihilators, Wasteland 2, and some others.

If you want 20$ or 30$ from me now, you need to give me something WORTH 20$ or 30$ now, not something worth nothing with the promise of something worth the money I pay in the future.

Now, to annex the Sudetenland.

RE: Kerbal

I'm glad you said that because, having played the demo, I'm gonna be getting the full game as soon as I get paid this week. I've heard good things about it!

 

[seditary]

Hopefully people are now getting it. Steam is moving away from being a walled garden store to being a facilitator for other people's stores.

They give developers their own forums, they can put up whatever games they like, they can set their own sales etc etc.

Steam doesn't want companies doing the same as EA.

'Get the same here as you would making your own store and reach more people, just give us some of the cash!'

Some people of course might not like that and that's fine, but I do like that. Steam just needs some consumer protection policies like a robust returns system and removal of predatory vendors like Muxwell.

 

[gamegod25]

Here is hoping Steam answers this wake up call that has been blaring for a while now. The way I see it they either need to:

A) Create a QA/Standards Department to evaluate any game that wishes to be sold on Steam, especially early access games. If they do not meet a reasonable level of quality right now then they will not be allowed to be sold until a better version is submitted. And only one version may be submitted per year to allow time to work on it and keep them from spamming the same shit right away. Also there will be another team devoted to monitoring the forums rather than giving all the power to the dev.

B) Early Access games must be FREE to download and play....all of them. If a player wishes to support it then Steam will provide a way to send the dev money either directly or give a link to a website where the dev will provide their own donation system. If the dev wants to sell the game then it must be in a complete state and drop the early access label and be judged as a final product.

C) Get rid of early access entirely and shut the whole system down. Its a good idea but one too easily exploited with no check and balances to provide the consumer any level of confidence or way to fight back.

 

[Rozalia1]

I'm really not seeing the issue honestly. As this Muxwell fellow states its early access so regardless of the quality he isn't "scamming" you (though if the concept of early access is in itself a scam is another matter).
His game can be as broken as he wills it, and if you get burned than...just don't be a sucker.

As for deleting "negative feedback" (in quotes as I'm sure he did in fact receive a lot of abuse that would be classed as abuse, not criticism"), well Steam agrees with him on allowing him to have that power. Take it up with them if you don't like it.

People need to understand that some developers simply don't give a toss what you think is correct, just, or good. That doesn't make them wrong, it just makes you naive for expecting/demanding they all to be nice guys.