Jimquisition: Sony's Begging For Piracy

[NightHawk21]

snip

Don't bother.

He's really talking about intellectual property rights and freedom to pirate and is using a deliberate misunderstanding of the term monopoly to hide it from the mods. His selective reading and cherry picking of ideas and facts will not allow him a different understanding.[/quote]

Ya I give up. He's either ignorant or he's acting ignorant on purpose. Either way I give up. If he wants to be wrong I'll let him. Shit if it'll make him feel better he can chalk this up as a personal win for himself if he wants, I just don't care anymore.

 

[geizr]

"I love my Vita, and I want it to do well."

This is the basic attitude that I think allows companies to think they can just get away with doing whatever the fuck, to whomever the fuck, whenever the fuck they want without any repercussions or loss, because geeks and nerds will hang on to something and struggle in vain to try to make the purchase somehow seem like a justified or worthy action, no matter how much observable reality proves otherwise. If something is shit, don't buy it. If you already own it because you took the gamble upon it and it turns out to be shit or have shitty service such to render it unusable, then just dump it and move on to something else that works better. Don't keep hanging on in some vain hope that the situation will magically change just because you will it to be so. Just take it on the cheek as a loss and move on to something else. It's not worth the continued waste of time, effort, and blood-pressure pills trying to make a piece-of-shit be anything other than a piece-of-shit (I realize the hardware itself is not a piece-of-shit, but hardware without software and a proper ecosystem of services is nothing but an expensive, fancy door-stop or paperweight). If a company is not going to take an interest in their own product to ensure its success, there is absolutely no reason for you, as a consumer, to bend yourself over the railing. Write it off and move on. If a company continuously puts out shitty products and provides shitty service, don't waste energy bitching about them, just stop buying from them. You're not hurting anyone but yourself to do otherwise, and no one is going to have sympathy for blind idiocy.

Honestly, until the gaming market finally learns to actually punish companies providing poor service and poor products with no sales, this kind of thing will only continue or get worse. As I continue to say, companies hear and understand only two sounds (ever!), the creek of your wallet opening and the slap of your wallet closing. All other sounds are just noise to be ignored. You can ***** until you are blue-in-the-face and die of asphyxiation; however, if you keep throwing your money at these companies, they have no real reason to change one iota to appease you. It's not until the money flow stops that they finally go "Oh SHIT! We need to treat our customers better!".

 

[mjc0961]

Better products aren't really an issue, because the Japanese will buy Japanese products and from Sony before they purchuse better products from other markets as a matter of national and racial pride. Very similar to how people tell you to buy American in the US, except they actually do it.

Hey, that's not fair. It's not our fault all the corporations outsourced everything to China and Mexico. How can Americans buy American when their choices are "Made in China" or not buying anything at all?

I think the games industry is the only one that gets away with treating paying customers like utter shit, and people eagerly defending the shitty treatment they get for fear they might get even shittier.

Which is actually why they do get treated even shittier: Company pulls something shitty, people surprisingly defend it, company tries something even shittier next time, people surprisingly defend THAT too...

Well, if you can call "if you don't like it don't buy it" a defense. I think everyone who uses that should be put in a dark room and beaten, myself. Buy it or not buy it, we still have every right to complain about it if it's shit.

 

[qeinar]

It just baffles my why a company would not release older games that people love on their handehelds, it just seems like free money to me.

 

[Vulpis]

I'm....kinda amused that he singled out Tomba for attention myself. I own a copy of the game from my PS1 days. I was always *very* annoyed that it was one of the 'American List of 15' for the PS2...

(for the youngsters who don't know what I'm talking about: When the PS2 was released in Japan, there was a list of 15 PS1 games that didn't work on it for various reasons, mostly related to not adhering properly to the API and calling hardware directly, which broke when that hardware was moved around under the PS2 backwards compatibility as compared to the original hardware. When the PS2 came out in the US, there was a *different* List of 15, and Tomba was one of the games on it. It would load up the title screen and the eyecatch animation video, but when you tried to actually *play*, it locked up.)

 

[OuroborosChoked]

"Intellectual Property" is the SAME THING AS A MONOPOLY!!!

Congratulations. You have written the stupidest thing I have read in... I don't even know how long.

By your definition there, if I write a book, I have a monopoly over my book... in that nobody else can write my book and "compete" with my book (the specific words I used in the exact order I used them in).

Don't misunderstand (though I'm 100% sure you will), I get what you're desperately trying to say... but you're still absolutely wrong in calling BRANDS or INTELLECTUAL PROPERTIES monopolies.

People who make products using another company's brand are called counterfeiters, not competitors... unless you think counterfeiting is a legitimate practice?

 

[immortalfrieza]

"Intellectual Property" is the SAME THING AS A MONOPOLY!!!

Congratulations. You have written the stupidest thing I have read in... I don't even know how long.

By your definition there, if I write a book, I have a monopoly over my book... in that nobody else can write my book and "compete" with my book (the specific words I used in the exact order I used them in).

Don't misunderstand (though I'm 100% sure you will), I get what you're desperately trying to say... but you're still absolutely wrong in calling BRANDS or INTELLECTUAL PROPERTIES monopolies.

People who make products using another company's brand are called counterfeiters, not competitors... unless you think counterfeiting is a legitimate practice?

Call it whatever you want, as long as you get the basic point I've been making I don't really care WHAT you want to call it.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Better products aren't really an issue, because the Japanese will buy Japanese products and from Sony before they purchuse better products from other markets as a matter of national and racial pride. Very similar to how people tell you to buy American in the US, except they actually do it.

Hey, that's not fair. It's not our fault all the corporations outsourced everything to China and Mexico. How can Americans buy American when their choices are "Made in China" or not buying anything at all?

I think the games industry is the only one that gets away with treating paying customers like utter shit, and people eagerly defending the shitty treatment they get for fear they might get even shittier.

Which is actually why they do get treated even shittier: Company pulls something shitty, people surprisingly defend it, company tries something even shittier next time, people surprisingly defend THAT too...

Well, if you can call "if you don't like it don't buy it" a defense. I think everyone who uses that should be put in a dark room and beaten, myself. Buy it or not buy it, we still have every right to complain about it if it's shit.

Not to mention that those so called wallet voters are such a tiny blip on any video game companies profit margins when compared to the blind fanboys and casuals that it never accomplishes anything to vote with their wallets anyway.

 

[immortalfrieza]

snip

Don't bother.

He's really talking about intellectual property rights and freedom to pirate and is using a deliberate misunderstanding of the term monopoly to hide it from the mods. His selective reading and cherry picking of ideas and facts will not allow him a different understanding.

Ya I give up. He's either ignorant or he's acting ignorant on purpose. Either way I give up. If he wants to be wrong I'll let him. Shit if it'll make him feel better he can chalk this up as a personal win for himself if he wants, I just don't care anymore.

"Either way I give up. If he wants to be wrong I'll let him." I can say the same. You all have been arguing over the definition of the word monopoly, a tiny, insignificant detail that nobody should even notice much less care about, instead of the actual point I was making by using that word.

You all can call this a victory for yourselves since you got me completely sidetracked from the point I was originally making when I first posted on this thread with that meanless and pointless arguing over what is and what isn't a monopoly.

 

[dwp9296]

All of this talk about monopoly makes me want to play the board game.

 

[ThatGuy]

"Intellectual Property" is the SAME THING AS A MONOPOLY!!!

Congratulations. You have written the stupidest thing I have read in... I don't even know how long.

By your definition there, if I write a book, I have a monopoly over my book... in that nobody else can write my book and "compete" with my book (the specific words I used in the exact order I used them in).

Don't misunderstand (though I'm 100% sure you will), I get what you're desperately trying to say... but you're still absolutely wrong in calling BRANDS or INTELLECTUAL PROPERTIES monopolies.

People who make products using another company's brand are called counterfeiters, not competitors... unless you think counterfeiting is a legitimate practice?

Call it whatever you want, as long as you get the basic point I've been making I don't really care WHAT you want to call it.

I'd love to call it Intellectual Property.

What you're suggesting actually exists in practice in some parts of the world. In China (where I currently live), knockoffs abound. There is total freedom of choice to buy a Sony-manufactured PSP, or a multitude of others made by local Chinese companies. A mind-boggling amount of replicas are out there. In reality, the consumer only has a binary decision: the "real" one, or a "fake" one. Not sure how this scenario would play out in the US, but in China, I don't see too many people walking around with knockoffs -- unless you're counting designer handbags.

 

[immortalfrieza]

"Intellectual Property" is the SAME THING AS A MONOPOLY!!!

Congratulations. You have written the stupidest thing I have read in... I don't even know how long.

By your definition there, if I write a book, I have a monopoly over my book... in that nobody else can write my book and "compete" with my book (the specific words I used in the exact order I used them in).

Don't misunderstand (though I'm 100% sure you will), I get what you're desperately trying to say... but you're still absolutely wrong in calling BRANDS or INTELLECTUAL PROPERTIES monopolies.

People who make products using another company's brand are called counterfeiters, not competitors... unless you think counterfeiting is a legitimate practice?

Call it whatever you want, as long as you get the basic point I've been making I don't really care WHAT you want to call it.

I'd love to call it Intellectual Property.

What you're suggesting actually exists in practice in some parts of the world. In China (where I currently live), knockoffs abound. There is total freedom of choice to buy a Sony-manufactured PSP, or a multitude of others made by local Chinese companies. A mind-boggling amount of replicas are out there. In reality, the consumer only has a binary decision: the "real" one, or a "fake" one. Not sure how this scenario would play out in the US, but in China, I don't see too many people walking around with knockoffs -- unless you're counting designer handbags.

If those knockoffs weren't in some way preferable to the Sony manufactured ones then those knockoffs wouldn't even exist, the people that make those various knockoffs would go out of business. The reason that competition like those knockoffs provide even if it's poor competition is that it gives a company an incentive to sell their product as cheap as they can make it and as well functioning as it is possible for them to make, in order to make sure the knockoffs aren't the ones getting all the sales.

 

[ThatGuy]

If those knockoffs weren't in some way preferable to the Sony manufactured ones then those knockoffs wouldn't even exist, the people that make those various knockoffs would go out of business. The reason that competition like those knockoffs provide even if it's poor competition is that it gives a company an incentive to sell their product as cheap as they can make it and as well functioning as it is possible for them to make, in order to make sure the knockoffs aren't the ones getting all the sales.

I see your point. I guess we're really talking about two different things: licensed copies, and counterfeit copies. Counterfeit copies basically only exist for people who can't afford the real thing, and for people who are tricked into thinking it's the real thing.

The way I read it, you're taking Google's side in the whole "open vs. closed" debate with Apple. One side offers a reliably predictable user experience (iPhone), and the other lets the market decide who has the best product (Android).

 

[immortalfrieza]

If those knockoffs weren't in some way preferable to the Sony manufactured ones then those knockoffs wouldn't even exist, the people that make those various knockoffs would go out of business. The reason that competition like those knockoffs provide even if it's poor competition is that it gives a company an incentive to sell their product as cheap as they can make it and as well functioning as it is possible for them to make, in order to make sure the knockoffs aren't the ones getting all the sales.

I see your point. I guess we're really talking about two different things: licensed copies, and counterfeit copies. Counterfeit copies basically only exist for people who can't afford the real thing, and for people who are tricked into thinking it's the real thing.

The way I read it, you're taking Google's side in the whole "open vs. closed" debate with Apple. One side offers a reliably predictable user experience (iPhone), and the other lets the market decide who has the best product (Android).

I've been talking about how licensed (read:legal) copies of the Sony products have only one legal source they can be produced and sold from at the very start of this before I ended up distracted by that "IPs are monopolies!" "No they're not!" nonsense.

If I want to play PS Vita games and the only place I can legally get a system that runs PS Vita games is someplace endorsed by Sony, what motivation does Sony really have to make sure that it's product is of a price that is reasonable to me and it even functions all that well? The only place I can get a PSV is from them, so they can overcharge me for a piece of tech that barely works and provide me poor if any customer service, and the only thing I can do about it is just not get a PSV at all. My choices shouldn't be limited to "suck to up and deal with it" or "shut up and get the hell out."

And this is a industry wide problem.

EA:"you don't like the fact that ME3 has locked away on-disc DLC and having to pay for it? Well, I don't see anybody else making a version of ME3 with that on-disc DLC unlocked for free who isn't behind bars, and nobody ever will, so deal with it or sit down and shut up!"

Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft: "You don't like how much our systems/games cost? Well boo hoo! If you want it and don't want to get arrested just shut up and give us your money!"

Just about everybody: "You're pissed that we make you pay out the nose for crappy products and services? What's that? You're going to boycott our products? HA! We both know you'll cave and buy it anyway in the end, and even if you don't, fine, we'll just sell it to any of these millions of idiots that are happy just to have our products regardless of what they have to go through to get it. Also, don't bother complaining to us, we'll just stick our fingers in our ears and go LALALALALALA!!! So you can just f*** off."

It may not be technically a monopoly, (and I still maintain that it is, but let's drop that) but I don't know what else you would call this kind of situation.

 

[ThatGuy]

Just about everybody: "You're pissed that we make you pay out the nose for crappy products and services? What's that? You're going to boycott our products? HA! We both know you'll cave and buy it anyway in the end, and even if you don't, fine, we'll just sell it to any of these millions of idiots that are happy just to have our products regardless of what they have to go through to get it. Also, don't bother complaining to us, we'll just stick our fingers in our ears and go LALALALALALA!!! So you can just f*** off."

Finally, we're on the same page. Every time I walk into McDonald's I think "why the hell can't I order a Whopper here; that shit is tastier than a Big Mac!"

 

[CyanideSandwich]

Didn't Jim already do a video on companies needing to provide a better service than the pirates? Oh well, I never tire of hearing it. Good work, Jim.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

As I really like gaming as a fun solo and social pastime activity (amongst others), I generally do not condone piracy.

However, very generally put, when I am confronted with invasive or nonsensical DRM or 'installation activation' or other artificial limitations, I have little inhibitions to buy the game I want and then install it without the DRM components... yeah, that's PC only, sadly.

On consoles, I've wasted plenty of money on games that plain sucked - that could have been my fault for not researching beforehand.

The limitations of the Sony consumerist microcosm in particular are a massive escapist turn-off, though.

I do not own a Vita, I no longer own a PSP. But what is going on with the retro gaming offering on PS3/PSN/SEN is just really, really poor. About three quarters of our physically available, disc-based collection we can't play on our last 60GB retro-compatible PS3... because of regional lockout. Those that do work look really, really poor. PSX and PS2 emulators on PC are mind-blowingly shiny and... perfect, in direct comparison. That's sad.

Pretty much all the digital-only retro titles we bought all over the world (depending on locale at any given time) were huge disappointments, and we cannot get rid of them. They just sit in our accounts, annoying us. Not just because of the sloppy and half-hearted implementation/presentation, but - depending on locale and Playstation Store used - we've repeatedly felt cheated with a sort of sleight-of-hand scam. Never buy games in non-English speaking Playstation Stores and expect to get the original title you wanted. It's cool for a spontaneous group giggle the first time around, but it gets really old and sad and frustrating after that. Squashed graphics (no thoughts about proper 4:3->16:9 ratio handling), total lack of scanline emulation and localized versions of games you once loved are a quick path to a blackened heart and a wallet sewn shut.

 

[Therumancer]

Better products aren't really an issue, because the Japanese will buy Japanese products and from Sony before they purchuse better products from other markets as a matter of national and racial pride. Very similar to how people tell you to buy American in the US, except they actually do it.

Hey, that's not fair. It's not our fault all the corporations outsourced everything to China and Mexico. How can Americans buy American when their choices are "Made in China" or not buying anything at all?

I think the games industry is the only one that gets away with treating paying customers like utter shit, and people eagerly defending the shitty treatment they get for fear they might get even shittier.

Which is actually why they do get treated even shittier: Company pulls something shitty, people surprisingly defend it, company tries something even shittier next time, people surprisingly defend THAT too...

Well, if you can call "if you don't like it don't buy it" a defense. I think everyone who uses that should be put in a dark room and beaten, myself. Buy it or not buy it, we still have every right to complain about it if it's shit.

Actually, I tend to disagree, most things in the US are made in Mexico and China, this is true, but there ARE American-made equivilents to most products, they are just harder to find because they are taking a beating due to cheaper goods. Things like fair pay, workers rights, medical insurance, etc... all raise the price. American business takes a beating largely because the working conditions in other countries allow for the cheaper manufacture of products.

This is getting into a major tangent, but the point here is that I stand by my original statements. Also as it applies to this discussion, a big part of the issue when it comes to companies like Sony is that since they can rely on Japan to buy Japanese unlike most other markets, they always have a strong market for things like video games to retreat into, which very much affects their business strategy and how much they are willing to try and actually compete with other products. Of course a big part of the "problem" is also racism and nationalism those kinds of sentiments fuel a kind of economic behavior that more tolerant nations like the USA (that tend to actually believe other nations are if anything more tolerant than we are) can't get their head around. Japan's wierd combination of worship and utter hate for the USA means that guesses of what they are going to do based on what they should do kind of irrelevent, since it's not entirely rational, both in how they choose to export, and what products they support domestically.

 

[AwesomeDave]

ive always been a supporter of sony, but jim is absolutely right, the suck towards their customers.