Jimquisition: Taking Videogames Seriously

dashiz94

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Apr 14, 2009
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Zachary Amaranth said:
dashiz94 said:
I never said it would stop them attacking games, I said it would prevent them from having a legitimate basis to petition Congress to ban, restrict, etc. games and gaming material.
No, you may have MEANT to say that, but you didn't say it. Legitimacy will not stop them from petitioning Congress. Teh Rawk n Role is still under the gun....And movies, and literature.

Pretty much the EXACT opposite of what you said.

And what's wrong with my comment regarding the Puritans? Puritan settlements banned books because it kept the kids indoors and not working outside, and this happened to be the same culture of people to perform the Salem Witch Trials, I'm not following how my comment on that makes me ignorant.
What's wrong with it? It's full of shit.

Puritans didn't ban books. Well, let me back up. The North American Puritans, the culture who was one of the foremost in terms of literature and education, did not ban books. As they were the ones who were involved in the oft-exaggerated Salem Witch Trials, you're either crossing cultures or grossly misinformed. Now, that's not to say all literature was free under them. Maybe you meant certain books were banned, but your followup here says that it was due to keeping kids inside and not working the fields, which is just freaking wrong.

You could have at least gone the religious route, which would be glib but not entirely untrue.

For the record, puritans (in the modern sense of the word) are still trying to ban books, despite them being legitimate. Again, your argument is, well, shit. You seem to think that somehow, if video games attain the same status as books, they will be exempt from the persecution that is still afforded books. And music. and movies. and just about anything else fun, because fun is sinful.
Yikes, okay, sorry about the historical confusion. It's been a while since I studied colonial societies in America so more likely than not I did mix up cultures here and there. God, if there is one thing I can't stand about the Escapist it's how caustic people get. Anyway, the Puritans DID ban books which, as you said, was due to blasphemous and/or against the status quo of their society. (For the record, the Salem Witch Trials are overly exaggerated but having faced false accusations of heinous crimes myself, I find them putrid and disgusting.) Any maybe it didn't lead to the actuall banning of books, the argument about keeping kids indoors was used back then as a criticism of books since farming was so integral to their livelihood.

Now to my point on taking games seriously, let me rework my argument. This kind of ties into the "games being taken as art" argument as well, but as it stands games are viewed by contemporary society as a toy. Movies, music, and books have gained respect as "artistic mediums" and therefore can display what otherwise would be normally considered obscene or controversial without fear of the MAJORITY from banning it, because they recognize it as art and therefore it has a, for lack of a better word, privilege to do so. Video games are still seen merely as toys. If say, for example, a new toy came out on the market that had something controversial, guaranteed it would receive a public outcry because it doesn't have the same status as a book would. Even if the message was well intended, it still would be removed from the market because it would come across merely as obscene, not artistic. Games face that similar problem too.

I understand that these mediums will always have people trying to censor and limit them, but when games are "taken seriously" we won't have to worry when these people complain, because society at large will just see them as fun Nazis and nothing more.
 

GonzoGamer

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Thank you Jim.
I don't want games to be taken too seriously. Shit look at what happened to comic books after the government started taking them too seriously.

And I too love Alien Resurrection, but I'm probably more of a JP Jeunet fan than an Alien fan anyway. And the alien abortion scene at the end was so tastefully pro-choice.
 

lRookiel

Lord of Infinite Grins
Jun 30, 2011
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I really try to think that Jim is on our side, and he is for alot of things, such as the whole "Used game" problem and SOPA etc. but then he ruins it all by saying "thank god for me" at the end of his videos.

Seriously stop that Jim, you just make yourself sound like some elitist, and that's the only thing ruining this series for me.
 

dmcc85

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Feb 18, 2010
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true thing. i agree.
if you like something , and someone else does not, you do not have to make 'em like it, for as long as you can enjoy it.
don't have less fun, just because somebody else tells you what you're enjoying is not serious.
fun does not have to be serious. and i think that sometimes is THE point.
well, ofcourse you can enjoy solving math-solutions that affect reality, or just inside a videogame in order to complete a puzzle or a quest.
and in the same way anybody can enjoy slinging birds at piggs.
both can be taken serious, but not both will affect reality in the same way.
one might become an expert in solving complex math-solutions really fast, but the other one will be an expert as firing birds with a slingshot.

in the end we all have to eat, breath, sleep and other things in order to be.
what each one uses this given lifetime for is up to the individual person.
so take your own time, and do what YOU want.
others may not take you or your way of life serious, but do you?

sidenote: better with sunglases. fits the immage.
 

Doclector

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Aug 22, 2009
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Zac Smith said:
I liked Alien 3 and Resurrection, there no where near as bad as people make them out to be
Yep, I agreed with that, and most other things in the episode. Aside from one small detail...

I specifically remember alot of the games as art debate popping up around the judgement in california about banning violent videogames. The thing is, if gaming is seen as a legitimit(sp?) art form, then it's covered by the fifth amendment (I think it was the fifth, I'm english, so not too big on american law) and therefore can't be banned.

So, to who do gamers want to take games seriously? For the large majority, I'd probably say it was the government.
 

TheDooD

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Dec 23, 2010
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SageRuffin said:
TheDooD said:
This subject kinda works into the shit that's going down with MLG and the FGC. MLG wants the rowdy world of fighting games to go to a more professional stance so the FGC can get more money and be more taken seriously. To me I don't care if the community isn't TV or family friendly.
A frequenter of SRK I see. And one that is not choking on their own sexual fluids at that. A rare combination indeed. I commend you sir/madam.

And the crazy thing about that argument is how some people are saying that apparently both players and commentators alike need to, say, dress in suits and whatnot. For a fucking video game. I can agree with keeping the language PG-13 since you may get the odd kid or young teen or some such (e.g. Noah the Prodigy), but having to dress up for a tournament is just overkill and unnecessary.
It's overkill for sure. When I gone to my first local major it was pretty much a party, where you'll enjoy yourself first. I can see with the young kids and shit tone down the language a bit. dressing in suits and dress clothes for a fighting game is crazy. Tournaments can go for hours, then there's the after party you don't want your good shit fucked up all sweating and shit.

Overall MLG is trying to make video games pretty much shit people will watch on TV but the way they're going about it is boring. Yet if properly run the vulgar party atmosphere of the FGC would pull more viewers because they're more down to earth.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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dashiz94 said:
God, if there is one thing I can't stand about the Escapist it's how caustic people get.
So you were making wild, incorrect, and belligerent statements, but the one thing you cannot stand is when people on the Escapist get caustic.

I see.

Let's just go through the rest quickly, as I wouldn't want to be called "caustic" again.

Any maybe it didn't lead to the actuall banning of books, the argument about keeping kids indoors was used back then as a criticism of books since farming was so integral to their livelihood.
False. The New England Puritans viewed literacy and education in such as very important. While, again, they would not fancy certain topics, the whole "they criticised books because farming was integral" thing is just plain wrong.

Maybe you're talking about others, but as pertains to American history (the history you're trying to invoke by and large) they are the only group of consequence.

While I do not praise all their ways, the Puritan colonists did have many solid traits I would find admirable. Their dedication to literacy was one of them. The modern perception is one of people who hated everything and saw witches in their own shadows, but that's as accurate as Columbus discovering the earth wasn't flat, or American natives scalping people, or WWE being real.

This kind of ties into the "games being taken as art" argument as well, but as it stands games are viewed by contemporary society as a toy. Movies, music, and books have gained respect as "artistic mediums" and therefore can display what otherwise would be normally considered obscene or controversial without fear of the MAJORITY from banning it, because they recognize it as art and therefore it has a, for lack of a better word, privilege to do so. Video games are still seen merely as toys. If say, for example, a new toy came out on the market that had something controversial, guaranteed it would receive a public outcry because it doesn't have the same status as a book would. Even if the message was well intended, it still would be removed from the market because it would come across merely as obscene, not artistic. Games face that similar problem too.
Games are legally and constitutionally art, as recognised by the Supreme Court.

This is all that matters as far as your argument goes.

I understand that these mediums will always have people trying to censor and limit them, but when games are "taken seriously" we won't have to worry when these people complain, because society at large will just see them as fun Nazis and nothing more.
If that was true, Book banning wouldn't have popular support. It does, you're wrong, end of.

The morality police are still going after this other media, people dismiss pretty much every genre of music, and films have all the credibility of Fantastic Four ROUSes or any other blockbuster.
 

Big Phil

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May 4, 2010
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I agree with Jim. The gaming community has been more or less independent from the outsiders and now that more and more people who already grew up with games being there for them are maturing and entering into managing and leading positions, the future of the game industry seems quite bright. The modern people from outside the gaming world do not take games seriously because they have been brought up in a world that had no videogames. That is why they tend to look down upon everything that is not usual and familiar to them. But with more and more gamers entering the "adult world", we can well expect this tendency to end in about a decade or even sooner.
 

maxben

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mjc0961 said:
Bravo, bravo! I hate when people spew that crap too. "Oh we can't have fun games anymore, we need serious games so games will be taken seriously." Fuck you, games are entertainment and entertainment is meant to be fun.
Why do you think fun and serious are necessarily different things?
That's what I don't get about your crowd.
There is nothing wrong with a Serious Sam every once in awhile, but I don't understand the idea that every fun thing is not serious.
I mean, Bioshock was fun, wasn't it???
What is one serious game (that people actually played and my crowd supports) that is not fun?
I, personally, want games to be both in general with a niche for silly games, not the other way around.
 

mirasiel

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Jul 12, 2010
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Yeah, why would anyone want non-gamers to take gaming 'seriously' ...what possible effect could it have on the industry and us gamers if the majority of the population thinks our preferred form of entertainment is a toy for kids and immature manchildren...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.335319-Syndicate-Banned-in-Australia-UPDATED


ooooooooooohhhhhh...
 

lowkey_jotunn

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Feb 23, 2011
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Two Words: SOPA

If the Congressmen, Senators, Supreme Court Justices, etc do not take gaming seriously, then it might go away.

Ponder that for a second. Imagine if the FB-fucking-I could come shut down the Jimquisition, Zero Punctuation, etc based on nothing more than a hunch that you used illegally obtained clips of video games, or talked about their IP without proper licencing.

The escapist would go away. Every user-sourced infodump for games would go away. Skyrim Nexus, Wowhead, mobafire, Curse gaming, etc. Gone. Poof. Buh-bye. All because some politicians in cheap suits don't take gaming seriously.

And SOPA is hardly the only legislation to be proposed that would kick gaming in the nuts, crippling it for life. It's just the most recent, and the most widely known.


Of course, this isn't to say that every game must be serious, or held to high-art standards. Far from it. I love me some Rock of Ages, Orcs must Die, Serious Sam, etc... but we need to take these games as seriously as any other entertainment avenue. If Harry Potter and Twilight get to exist and be taken seriously, there's no excuse for something like Skyrim to be brushed aside as "just a game."
 
Dec 3, 2011
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Video games are going through a similar phase that the cinema industry did in it's first few decades. Just let it grow, ignore the shadowy organisation of social recognition and enjoy the games.
 
Dec 3, 2011
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lowkey_jotunn said:
Two Words: SOPA

If the Congressmen, Senators, Supreme Court Justices, etc do not take gaming seriously, then it might go away.

Ponder that for a second. Imagine if the FB-fucking-I could come shut down the Jimquisition, Zero Punctuation, etc based on nothing more than a hunch that you used illegally obtained clips of video games, or talked about their IP without proper licencing.

The escapist would go away. Every user-sourced infodump for games would go away. Skyrim Nexus, Wowhead, mobafire, Curse gaming, etc. Gone. Poof. Buh-bye. All because some politicians in cheap suits don't take gaming seriously.

And SOPA is hardly the only legislation to be proposed that would kick gaming in the nuts, crippling it for life. It's just the most recent, and the most widely known.


Of course, this isn't to say that every game must be serious, or held to high-art standards. Far from it. I love me some Rock of Ages, Orcs must Die, Serious Sam, etc... but we need to take these games as seriously as any other entertainment avenue. If Harry Potter and Twilight get to exist and be taken seriously, there's no excuse for something like Skyrim to be brushed aside as "just a game."
... two words?
 

robinkom

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Jan 8, 2009
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Great video, Jim, and we're in agreement about the opinions of people that don't fucking matter. You're comfortable in your enjoyment for Alien 3 and Resurrection, that's great and fuck anyone who says otherwise. I thought they were okay films as well. All too often I somehow get sucked into useless debates about movies or games I like that fall under a general consensus of disdain by most everyone else; a lot of people hate these things because it's simply the "cool" thing to do without forming their own opinions or they're just clingy complaining dipshit fans. I hate those people. Consequently, it tends to be my fellow nerds/gamers; typically the ones who think far too highly of themselves.

That being said, I would like to follow in turn and state that I like Super Mario Bros. The Movie. I found it to be a really artistic and fun film! I saw it in theatres in 1993 and I immediately fell in love with it. And then a couple years back, I was at an Anime Convention and had a grown-ass adult man dressed as typical videogame Luigi (complete with shitty felt moustache) give me shit because I professed my enjoyment with it. I could think of nothing more fitting than to just smile brightly at him after he was done and reiterate, "Really? I love that movie."