Jimquisition: Taking Videogames Seriously

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Headdrivehardscrew

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Jim Sterling said:
Taking Videogames Seriously

When will games be taken seriously? Why isn't anybody taking videogames seriously? How many times can Jim say the word "seriously" in a single video? Does any of it matter? No. None of it. Ever.

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When? Why, we're talking about a billion-dollar industry... but making Roger Ebert play videogames seems just as questionable to me as the notion of having Jim Sterling tearing Jane Fonda a new one by releasing his own workout videos. At least the latter would be somewhat fun.

People seeking Roger Ebert's four thumbs up on videogames or car engine pimping generally can be considered as being somewhat confused and, as our local holy preacher guruman Jim the Exalted put it, insecure.

Maybe, though, it's a sign of our chaotic and diversified times.

Consider John Doe, who studied history and learned speaking Mandarin while being bored at high school, suddenly talking about nuclear power, cold fusion and other things that are mostly none of his melon farming business. He once read a book about it by someone who also happens to believe in aliens. Oh, and he discussed it with his vegan friends, many times.

He should be hit on the head with a frying pan and sent to some Gulag where the only power is the one you get from burning wood, or the one his muscles get from stale bread and a warm cup of boiled snow. Yet a lot of people find their own insignificance, ignorance and fear so important they elevate John Doe to be their leader, spokesperson and general Mr. Knowitall, which usually leads to centuries of shenanigans and asshattery. But that's how we the sheeple roll. We're so much more intelluhgnt than animals, yet we hardly ever elevate ourselves above our instincts.

Then again, I sometimes wonder... was it consumers, escapists that first went to Roger Ebert for his blessing, or was it marketing parasites trying to cash in on He Who is Roger Ebert??
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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Shoggoth2588 said:
As for Alien 3 and Resurrection...I haven't seen either all the way through. I should fix that, especially since they're both apparently better than AvP.
...and that's why Bob handles the movies and Jim preaches about video games (and everything else). Hah. Gotcha.
 

Hugga_Bear

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I like this point, it's a very legitimate point and it was well made. I haven't, however, faced this problem. Maybe because I live in the UK? I don't know, games aren't important over here but I've not seen them vilified either, not like I see from the States.

Regardless I completely agree, especially when it comes to groups like Fox and the Daily Mail, if they take you seriously then odds are you're doing it wrong anyway, their endorsement is a BAD sign.
Oh and I wasn't a fan of Resurrection, 3 was okay but 1 and 2 were the best. AvP was terrible unfortunately, the second one more so. Had promise too, which sucks.
 

TJC

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Usually, I tend to agree with Jim with a resounding HALLELUJA FOR JIM but he's quite wrong on this one... or rather, he simplifies the issue to a ridiculous level.

Yeah, I get it: whining nerds who desperately crave for attention and validation are annoying but those are just idiots. People who actually want video games to be taken seriously do this because they want games like "Six Days in Fallujah" become reality.
Why is it that there can be movies or books about certain subjects but a game "ridicules" or "disrespects" it? That's the thing that annoys the hell out of me. That's what I mean by "being taken seriously" not getting approval from What's-His-Face McMovie-critic (I mean... who was that guy?)

But then again, it's not really the mainstream (FUCK YOU FOX NEWS) or other people I ask for srsns but the game industry itself. You can beg and cry and whine all you want and people will still not view your favourite pass time the way you do. And that's okay. But when I see what EA and Activision do to ("advertise") their games... that's just shameful. How Konami backed out of publishing Six Days of Fallujah... that was just FUCKING shameful. It shows that the game industry itself oftentime considers video games to be nothing more than mere toys.
 

Thamian

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Honestly, Jim's mostly right but not totally, atleast from where I'm standing. Roger Ebert and so on, yeah, seeking validation from them, complete waste of time effort and energy. About the absolute limit to responding to their bigotry is to ask them if they've ever played the games that they're lambasting, and proclaiming their opinions to be invalid when they finally admit that they haven't. And let's be honest, when it comes to Fox News, nothing's going to change their tune short of nuclear holocaust or hell freezing over, so once again, a complete waste of time.

However, politicians and high level jurists not taking them seriously as an art form, that has the potential to be massively damaging to the industry. Take for example that US Supreme Court decision last year/earlier this year. If they'd decided against games and gaming, that it was not a legitimate art form, the results could have been diabolical.

The problem we have as a community, is that due to idiots like Murdoch, Ebert and the rest, the impression that we get of the people making the laws that can have a massive impact on us, is that those people don't take us seriously. That they view the industry (as someone else said earlier in the thread) as 'toy makers gone mad'. Yes ok, we are getting more and more of an impression via their actions that they do, but still...
 

Carnagath

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Ok, Alien 3 was watchable, but it had the... worst... CGI... I have ever seen. Period. And I don't mean in Hollywood. Fucking Angry Video Game Nerd has better CGI than Alien 3. From a point on it became impossible to watch the movie for me because of all the giggling and facepalming.
 

Chadling

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In my case, what bothers me is not that videogames aren't taken "seriously", but rather that the current stereotype of videogamers seems to only have shifted from mouth-breathing man-children who live in their parents' basement to idiot fratboys who only buy the latest map-pack in their favorite shooter. Idiot fratboys with a strange, homoerotic love for teabagging, and all the social graces of an overgrown two year old.

It's not much of an improvement.
 

mad825

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Come on Jim, Why should I take this episode seriously when I already take gaming seriously? *shrug*
 

veloper

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Aprilgold said:
Vault101 said:
well mabye this "taken seriously" thing is less about what other people think and more about us wanting games that arnt targeted toward 14 year old boys
That is exactly what I was going to make a rant about, thank you.
Yup, we want the game publishers to take videogames seriously. They do matter.
 

SageRuffin

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Dec 19, 2009
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Daystar Clarion said:
I didn't really like Alien Resurrection, but I never understood the hate that Alien 3 received, I thought it was pretty damn good.
Both could've been better, but they weren't terrible I think. To my understanding the producers of 3 didn't like the original script and kinda made shit up as they went along, and Resurrection suffered from extreme script changes itself (and I've read that it was originally penned by Joss Whedon). Alas... meddling.

TheDooD said:
This subject kinda works into the shit that's going down with MLG and the FGC. MLG wants the rowdy world of fighting games to go to a more professional stance so the FGC can get more money and be more taken seriously. To me I don't care if the community isn't TV or family friendly.
A frequenter of SRK I see. And one that is not choking on their own sexual fluids at that. A rare combination indeed. I commend you sir/madam.

And the crazy thing about that argument is how some people are saying that apparently both players and commentators alike need to, say, dress in suits and whatnot. For a fucking video game. I can agree with keeping the language PG-13 since you may get the odd kid or young teen or some such (e.g. Noah the Prodigy), but having to dress up for a tournament is just overkill and unnecessary.

anthony87 said:
Does this mean people are finally gonna shut up about the whole "Games as an artform" thing too? And yes, Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection were pretty damn good. You can't not like a movie featuring Ron Pearlman and Xenomorphs.
Agreed on both counts. I still think video games are more an amalgam of various artistic mediums than a medium in and of themselves, but I won't get into that right now.

And you forgot about him making out with another dude right before the end credits. :D

shrekfan246 said:
I don't cry out about how games are being dumbed down or simplified "for the console kiddies" (which is a massive insult, because how many current-day gamers can honestly say they only grew up with a Commodore 64 or Amiga or something and never had an NES? And this very website has plenty of people who got into gaming because of Nintendo or Sega, or even Sony) and I don't get insulted when the likes of Blizzard tries to appeal to a wider demographic with WoW.
I could kiss you for these two sentences alone. Of course basic simplification isn't the problem - sometimes it works (Skyrim, the control scheme for Marvel vs Capcom 3), and sometimes it doesn't (some of the more recent BioWare games, arguably). I think the "PC Master Race" (I'm generalizing here, I know not all PC gamers are like this) tend to think that all the ultimately unneeded complexity is supposed to be a status symbol or something. I'm not even gonna pretend I understand it all.

Aside: One argument/debate I've always wanted to have but never got the chance to indulge in is someone saying that RPGs are more complex than fighting games. Shame really... I'd love to compare and contrast.
 

dashiz94

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Zachary Amaranth said:
dashiz94 said:
I never said it would stop them attacking games, I said it would prevent them from having a legitimate basis to petition Congress to ban, restrict, etc. games and gaming material.
No, you may have MEANT to say that, but you didn't say it. Legitimacy will not stop them from petitioning Congress. Teh Rawk n Role is still under the gun....And movies, and literature.

Pretty much the EXACT opposite of what you said.

And what's wrong with my comment regarding the Puritans? Puritan settlements banned books because it kept the kids indoors and not working outside, and this happened to be the same culture of people to perform the Salem Witch Trials, I'm not following how my comment on that makes me ignorant.
What's wrong with it? It's full of shit.

Puritans didn't ban books. Well, let me back up. The North American Puritans, the culture who was one of the foremost in terms of literature and education, did not ban books. As they were the ones who were involved in the oft-exaggerated Salem Witch Trials, you're either crossing cultures or grossly misinformed. Now, that's not to say all literature was free under them. Maybe you meant certain books were banned, but your followup here says that it was due to keeping kids inside and not working the fields, which is just freaking wrong.

You could have at least gone the religious route, which would be glib but not entirely untrue.

For the record, puritans (in the modern sense of the word) are still trying to ban books, despite them being legitimate. Again, your argument is, well, shit. You seem to think that somehow, if video games attain the same status as books, they will be exempt from the persecution that is still afforded books. And music. and movies. and just about anything else fun, because fun is sinful.
Yikes, okay, sorry about the historical confusion. It's been a while since I studied colonial societies in America so more likely than not I did mix up cultures here and there. God, if there is one thing I can't stand about the Escapist it's how caustic people get. Anyway, the Puritans DID ban books which, as you said, was due to blasphemous and/or against the status quo of their society. (For the record, the Salem Witch Trials are overly exaggerated but having faced false accusations of heinous crimes myself, I find them putrid and disgusting.) Any maybe it didn't lead to the actuall banning of books, the argument about keeping kids indoors was used back then as a criticism of books since farming was so integral to their livelihood.

Now to my point on taking games seriously, let me rework my argument. This kind of ties into the "games being taken as art" argument as well, but as it stands games are viewed by contemporary society as a toy. Movies, music, and books have gained respect as "artistic mediums" and therefore can display what otherwise would be normally considered obscene or controversial without fear of the MAJORITY from banning it, because they recognize it as art and therefore it has a, for lack of a better word, privilege to do so. Video games are still seen merely as toys. If say, for example, a new toy came out on the market that had something controversial, guaranteed it would receive a public outcry because it doesn't have the same status as a book would. Even if the message was well intended, it still would be removed from the market because it would come across merely as obscene, not artistic. Games face that similar problem too.

I understand that these mediums will always have people trying to censor and limit them, but when games are "taken seriously" we won't have to worry when these people complain, because society at large will just see them as fun Nazis and nothing more.
 

GonzoGamer

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Thank you Jim.
I don't want games to be taken too seriously. Shit look at what happened to comic books after the government started taking them too seriously.

And I too love Alien Resurrection, but I'm probably more of a JP Jeunet fan than an Alien fan anyway. And the alien abortion scene at the end was so tastefully pro-choice.
 

lRookiel

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I really try to think that Jim is on our side, and he is for alot of things, such as the whole "Used game" problem and SOPA etc. but then he ruins it all by saying "thank god for me" at the end of his videos.

Seriously stop that Jim, you just make yourself sound like some elitist, and that's the only thing ruining this series for me.
 

dmcc85

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Feb 18, 2010
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true thing. i agree.
if you like something , and someone else does not, you do not have to make 'em like it, for as long as you can enjoy it.
don't have less fun, just because somebody else tells you what you're enjoying is not serious.
fun does not have to be serious. and i think that sometimes is THE point.
well, ofcourse you can enjoy solving math-solutions that affect reality, or just inside a videogame in order to complete a puzzle or a quest.
and in the same way anybody can enjoy slinging birds at piggs.
both can be taken serious, but not both will affect reality in the same way.
one might become an expert in solving complex math-solutions really fast, but the other one will be an expert as firing birds with a slingshot.

in the end we all have to eat, breath, sleep and other things in order to be.
what each one uses this given lifetime for is up to the individual person.
so take your own time, and do what YOU want.
others may not take you or your way of life serious, but do you?

sidenote: better with sunglases. fits the immage.
 

Doclector

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Zac Smith said:
I liked Alien 3 and Resurrection, there no where near as bad as people make them out to be
Yep, I agreed with that, and most other things in the episode. Aside from one small detail...

I specifically remember alot of the games as art debate popping up around the judgement in california about banning violent videogames. The thing is, if gaming is seen as a legitimit(sp?) art form, then it's covered by the fifth amendment (I think it was the fifth, I'm english, so not too big on american law) and therefore can't be banned.

So, to who do gamers want to take games seriously? For the large majority, I'd probably say it was the government.
 

TheDooD

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SageRuffin said:
TheDooD said:
This subject kinda works into the shit that's going down with MLG and the FGC. MLG wants the rowdy world of fighting games to go to a more professional stance so the FGC can get more money and be more taken seriously. To me I don't care if the community isn't TV or family friendly.
A frequenter of SRK I see. And one that is not choking on their own sexual fluids at that. A rare combination indeed. I commend you sir/madam.

And the crazy thing about that argument is how some people are saying that apparently both players and commentators alike need to, say, dress in suits and whatnot. For a fucking video game. I can agree with keeping the language PG-13 since you may get the odd kid or young teen or some such (e.g. Noah the Prodigy), but having to dress up for a tournament is just overkill and unnecessary.
It's overkill for sure. When I gone to my first local major it was pretty much a party, where you'll enjoy yourself first. I can see with the young kids and shit tone down the language a bit. dressing in suits and dress clothes for a fighting game is crazy. Tournaments can go for hours, then there's the after party you don't want your good shit fucked up all sweating and shit.

Overall MLG is trying to make video games pretty much shit people will watch on TV but the way they're going about it is boring. Yet if properly run the vulgar party atmosphere of the FGC would pull more viewers because they're more down to earth.