Jimquisition: Taking Videogames Seriously

Zom-B

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Wookie 1 said:
That needs to change, it doesnt matter if we take us seriously really, it matters if the important within society does.
One question: why?
 

Wookie 1

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Zom-B said:
Wookie 1 said:
That needs to change, it doesnt matter if we take us seriously really, it matters if the important within society does.
One question: why?
The important within our society has huge powers over us and this industry as a whole, you only have to look at the various laws proposed by various groups over the years to see what I mean, games are currently not taken even vaguely seriously by the major decision makers.

There was a brief blink and you'd miss it tax break for the games industry in the United Kingdom, much as there remains for Films, nobody even vaguely suggested touching the film industry's tax break and yet its worth less to the economy as far as I know.

You can also see this in the Senatorial report earlier on protesting aginst the spending on the preservation of gaming history.

I could list dozens of examples, its only because the industry gets the occasional bit of serious treatment that things like the Californian legislation did not end up succesful in the Supreme Court.
 

Zom-B

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Wookie 1 said:
Zom-B said:
Wookie 1 said:
That needs to change, it doesnt matter if we take us seriously really, it matters if the important within society does.
One question: why?
The important within our society has huge powers over us and this industry as a whole, you only have to look at the various laws proposed by various groups over the years to see what I mean, games are currently not taken even vaguely seriously by the major decision makers.

There was a brief blink and you'd miss it tax break for the games industry in the United Kingdom, much as there remains for Films, nobody even vaguely suggested touching the film industry's tax break and yet its worth less to the economy as far as I know.

You can also see this in the Senatorial report earlier on protesting aginst the spending on the preservation of gaming history.

I could list dozens of examples, its only because the industry gets the occasional bit of serious treatment that things like the Californian legislation did not end up succesful in the Supreme Court.
Utterly disagree. There's lots of creative product that isn't beholden to some influential group of rich people in order to be "good" or "taken seriously".

If all you want is mainstream acceptance so that the video game industry can continue to shit out sequels and soulless triple A FPSes, that's fine, but the industry doesn't need to be taken seriously to survive, put out great games or have free reign in terms of content.

What you want is the a video game Hollywood. I don't, because on average Hollywood makes the world's shittiest movies.
 

Wookie 1

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Apr 3, 2010
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Zom-B said:
Wookie 1 said:
Zom-B said:
Wookie 1 said:
That needs to change, it doesnt matter if we take us seriously really, it matters if the important within society does.
One question: why?
The important within our society has huge powers over us and this industry as a whole, you only have to look at the various laws proposed by various groups over the years to see what I mean, games are currently not taken even vaguely seriously by the major decision makers.

There was a brief blink and you'd miss it tax break for the games industry in the United Kingdom, much as there remains for Films, nobody even vaguely suggested touching the film industry's tax break and yet its worth less to the economy as far as I know.

You can also see this in the Senatorial report earlier on protesting aginst the spending on the preservation of gaming history.

I could list dozens of examples, its only because the industry gets the occasional bit of serious treatment that things like the Californian legislation did not end up succesful in the Supreme Court.
Utterly disagree. There's lots of creative product that isn't beholden to some influential group of rich people in order to be "good" or "taken seriously".

If all you want is mainstream acceptance so that the video game industry can continue to shit out sequels and soulless triple A FPSes, that's fine, but the industry doesn't need to be taken seriously to survive, put out great games or have free reign in terms of content.

What you want is the a video game Hollywood. I don't, because on average Hollywood makes the world's shittiest movies.
You have utterly misunderstood me, I dont the industry to be Hollywoodised and I agree most big blockbustery type movies made there are bad. My point was more that while games are not taken seriously they are threatened, as much as we dont like to think about it we are outside of the major accepted hobbies for a great many within the elite of our nations, that may not matter to most and it probably shouldnt. But, it threatens us much more than any of us would like when you still have people like Senator Yee from California or Keith Vaz in Britain who will fail to see why our industry is justified in existing. I recall reading a statistic that of the 650 MP's in the current Parliament fewer than 100 had understanding properly of video games and of those who had voted the majority had voted on early day motions condemning the industry as a whole.

So yes, I do think we need that level of beign taken seriously not to end up at a legal dead end. Or (this bit is personal opinion and unsupported)like Comic Books where they had to rename to graphic novels and still sturggle to get more than token acknowledgement as legitimate.

Anyway You misunderstood my point entirely. Its not so that we can become like movies in the lack of creativity its that we can become like them in the sense that its only crazies who believe they should be censored unto death and possibly made illegal, in a THINK OF THE CHILDREN sort of way.

Reading up Jove a couple of posts up the page makes my point wonderfully:

Jove said:
Six Days in Fallujah, and Imagination is the Only Escape. Come on Jim, and come on people, if you don't think the mainstream public/media matters, YOU ARE DEAD WRONG! Because of them, gamers everywhere have lost out on those two games and the US Government had to have a freaking voting in the supreme court if Video Games can even be considered an art form.
I could add more to that list, also look at Australia, Syndicate is now banned there because key decision makers believe that it should not see the light of Austrailian day, doesnt matter how much YOU like it, the government has just come in and said no, you cannot play this game no matter how much you may like your hobby.

That, that right there is why we need to be taken seriously.

(also read the Lowkey post Directly below the Jove one, in which he also makes my point involving SOPA).
 

Zom-B

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Feb 8, 2011
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Wookie 1 said:
You have utterly misunderstood me, I dont the industry to be Hollywoodised and I agree most big blockbustery type movies made there are bad. My point was more that while games are not taken seriously they are threatened, as much as we dont like to think about it we are outside of the major accepted hobbies for a great many within the elite of our nations, that may not matter to most and it probably shouldnt. But, it threatens us much more than any of us would like when you still have people like Senator Yee from California or Keith Vaz in Britain who will fail to see why our industry is justified in existing. I recall reading a statistic that of the 650 MP's in the current Parliament fewer than 100 had understanding properly of video games and of those who had voted the majority had voted on early day motions condemning the industry as a whole.

So yes, I do think we need that level of beign taken seriously not to end up at a legal dead end. Or (this bit is personal opinion and unsupported)like Comic Books where they had to rename to graphic novels and still sturggle to get more than token acknowledgement as legitimate.

Anyway You misunderstood my point entirely. Its not so that we can become like movies in the lack of creativity its that we can become like them in the sense that its only crazies who believe they should be censored unto death and possibly made illegal, in a THINK OF THE CHILDREN sort of way.

Reading up Jove a couple of posts up the page makes my point wonderfully:

Jove said:
Six Days in Fallujah, and Imagination is the Only Escape. Come on Jim, and come on people, if you don't think the mainstream public/media matters, YOU ARE DEAD WRONG! Because of them, gamers everywhere have lost out on those two games and the US Government had to have a freaking voting in the supreme court if Video Games can even be considered an art form.
I could add more to that list, also look at Australia, Syndicate is now banned there because key decision makers believe that it should not see the light of Austrailian day, doesnt matter how much YOU like it, the government has just come in and said no, you cannot play this game no matter how much you may like your hobby.

That, that right there is why we need to be taken seriously.

(also read the Lowkey post Directly below the Jove one, in which he also makes my point involving SOPA).
Ok, I did misunderstand your point. You've made yourself clear, however, I still disagree that having the approval of certain members of society is supremely important.

Just like movies and other sorts of media, video games will grow and change, without the approval of the mainstream, politicians or the "decision makers". While certain elements may remain underground for longer, or not be seen as commercially viable, the long and short of it is is that censorship in any form is usually not tolerated.

Games like Six Days in Fallujah as mentioned by Jove (By Jove! Get it?) weren't cancelled because "decision makers" were against it, it was because people did take it seriously, and felt it was inappropriate. Mostly veterans complained and Konami decided not to publish it and so the developer couldn't get the funding or find another publisher to make it (so far). I see this less as a "videogames aren't taken seriously" issue and more as that in this instance they were taken too seriously. People take it seriously when some sociopath shoots up a mall or school and they find a copy of Modern Warfare in his home. People don't find a Schwarzenegger movie in a guys home and say that movies make people kill. At least no one reasonable does. Six Days in Fallujah was not a mainstream public or media controversy, it was a lot of veterans feeling like the game was inappropriate and Konami caved.

As for games like the Syndicate being banned in Australia, that's a cultural and political symptom and is not directly related to videogames. Australia also has stronger, or at least more heavily enforced censorship laws when it comes to movies and other visual media. To point out Syndicate and not mention recent movies like Human Centipede or A Serbian Film being banned in Australia is a bit disingenuous and feels like cherry picking, when said censorship laws aren't directed solely at videogames.

Being taken seriously is not a requirement to have the games we want. All that we need is strong anti-censorship laws and developers and publishers willing to challenge people's perceptions. You cannot legislate "seriousness".

I don't want to dispute that public perception or law maker's attitudes aren't important, but I just believe that the medium will live or die on it's own merits and doesn't need a crusade to prove it's worth or convince some politicians to accept it. Censorship, just like prohibition, never works. People will defy it, find a way around it and continue to find ways to produce and consume whatever media they please.
 

cefm

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Mar 26, 2010
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Why anyone gives a crap about Roger Ebert's opinions on anything except film (which many disagree with anyway) is beyond me. The only relevant response to his "games aren't art" comment would be "Stick to your own medium and don't presume to speak for the entire length and breadth of artistic creation you fat-headed old man".
 

Kenji_03

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Loved that closer. Out of character but fucking awesome "Thank God, for the Jimquisition"
 

mschweiz

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Oct 28, 2009
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i think by "seriously", gamers mean tolerated, because with court cases like brown vs EMA they become afraid for their hobby. and know that any source of criticism against video games could be used to put more restrictions on the sale and creation of video games. that is what people are afraid of... that and of being called a nerd every time they leave the basement.