Jimquisition: The Adblock Episode

[Britishfan]

So I'd been think about turning Adblock off on the escapist for a while now anyway, and after this episode I finally did. not 5 minutes later "WE AT PAYPAL TAKE GREAT CARE TO...." Now I'm seriously considering turning adblock back on.

 

[ivarsa15]

I PROUDLY ADBLOCK THE ESCAPIST! Well... I am a publisher club member... but still, I PROUDLY(for some reason) ADBLOCK EVERY SITE(except sites with non interrrupting ads)!

 

[Leonardo Huizar]

I am using Adblock ... and i just got an Ad for DishNetwork by the Preview/Post . I'll cut you & the escapist a check when i can afford to. Im also a little shy about turning it off on some sites since ive been hit with Malware at least 4 times and had to dig out some web advertisement crap in my programs that kept popping out on my computer screen and somehow messed with my connection.

Theres also the matter of the really obnoxious un-mutable or the '#click[close X]forFREEmalware' ads that just horde my screen which is especially worse on U2B

 

[Ashoten]

Thanks Jim for not being judgmental. Usually when a web personality yells at me for AD block that is the end of me watching them. It is not anger but my feelings do take a hit and I can not longer watch them without thinking about how they hate me for not white listing. Add to that the annoyance I feel when watching commercials when I do white list on occasion well...I just stop watching.

Soon as I start getting regular work again (because I am poor as fuck going to school muching off my parents) I plan on supporting through patrion or just directly on a site. I think Web sites should try to just go that way so they will not be subject to corporate overlords.

 

[thewatergamer]

Ok here is my piece Jim, I commented on Boogie2988's video as well but here I go

Do I use adblock? YES let's face it ads are really annoying these days

Do I whitelist websites like the escapist, youtube and twitch? YES I want to support you guys as much as possible but honestly as many others have pointed out, its getting harder and harder to not use adblock... 2 minute unskippable ads on blip, video ads that run in the side on the escapist causing the video we are trying to watch to lag so I completely understand why some people use adblock

(Rant Incoming) However... I am so fucking sick of people on youtube saying stupid things like "Why is it a problem you have 1 Million viewers who cares if I use adblock?" NewsFlash if all 1M viewers used adblock and used the same excuse you did the video maker would QUIT

Another comment that really rubs me the wrong way is people that say: Youtube and The Escapist Shouldn't be a job, if you are scraping the bottom of the barrel for money, people like Jim and Boogie2988 and MovieBob should quit and get a "real job"

Ok once again every single video maker does just that, what happens? NOBODY makes content for the internet anymore, the result?

a: Free websites like youtube, twitch and the escapist cease to exist or force subscriptions
b: (more likely in my opinion) websites start banning people that use adblock or something similar to it

Look guys I find ads just as annoying as you, Jim and Boogie2988 find them just as annoying as you, but using adblock just isn't really helping anything, if you want to support people like Jim don't use adblock, obviously if you are a member of the publishers club or donate to youtubers regularly you are helping anyway, but if you don't have the money to do direct support just put up with the ads like I do

Just support your favorite free content providers in some way, whether that be by ads or direct donations or things like the publishers club, any of those will help, but if you aren't doing any of those things but you still love the free content, do the right thing and do something to help, even if you just pause adblock every 2nd or 3rd time you visit a website it would still be better than nothing

 

[LordLundar]

Nothing new. They allow posters who have posted essentially hate speech to go unopposed but if you dare mention you have adblock running or, heaven forbid question their practices you get flagged immediately. I also suspect that disputing the flag is a waste of time because it goes to the same mod that flagged you in the first place who simply dumps the complaint. Put it simply, the way the mods act, I don't expect much (if anything) in the way of integrity.

I'm done with this site. The content doesn't justify the scatter shot enforcement by the moderators who seem to be more interested in protecting their own image than the integrity of the website.

Thanks for being civil and telling us about what you think we could do better directly.

If posts are missed for moderation, it's because we can't be everywhere at once. We rely a lot on the report queue which is filled with reports from normal users. Chances are if a post got wrathed, it got flagged by someone here, not by a Mod.

As for the Appeals queue, we've said this many times in every thread complaining about Moderators. The Mods do not run the Appeals queue. Only Site Staff get to see those appeals and overturn those decisions. There is a 0% chance that your appeal will be seen by whoever gave you an infraction.

If this falls on deaf ears, please feel free to leave anyway.

Deaf ears? Hardly. But the old saying "actions speak louder than words" apply here and I haven't been convinced. In this thread alone which was made by a content maker who had talked to moderators about allowing a free discussion on the subject, the moderating staff are swinging the banhammer around almost at random with the best comparison being a crackhead operating a wrecking ball.

There is a prioritization issue here where comments made specifically to start flame wars gets a lower priority compared to someone saying the moderating group are behaving poorly and abusing their powers.

So no, not deaf ears, but not convinced I'm being told the truth. Maybe when there's some proper oversight on the moderators I'll return, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[PunkRex]

Jeez Escapist, you're not doing yourself any favours blocking some of these comments.

OT: I don't use Adblock, only having a vague idea of what it was before this vid but I can see the appeal. I have a laptop thats a few years old and get pop ups every-FUCKING-time I click a page. My vids on Youtube, Veoh, Daily-motion get interupted and closed by the poxy things and as for them porn sites.... well, lets just say i'm happy I recently down loaded AVAST. I refuse to be part of it though, my lap tops protected, and although it frustrates the shit out of me (close to tears, i'm not ashamed to admit) the folk I enjoy on the internet are worth a few pulled hairs.

 

[DataSnake]

Just to throw in my two cents (which don't apply to the Escapist because PubClub): I don't use adblock. I do, however, use flashblock. If your page contains banners and the like, I'll see them. If it contains something that autoplays audio without my permission, it gets nothing. This way, I can support sites I like while discouraging advertisers who go too far.

 

[Ipsen]

snip and some good youtube clips; good read

Can this get stickied somewhere???

Really, thank you, Kross; this is the kind of clarification I've been wanting to see from the staff of a site I've come to love. But I believe this is the other side of the issue that Jim has brought to the table; Escapist staff (or at least Jim) acknowledges ads suck for the user, and express understanding, but Escapist staff's perspective was still largely clouded from us users.

Please preserve this statement or abbreviated somewhere, like your CoC or Forum rules. For all the crap that goes down in this forum, I find it disingenuous that you'd pride yourself on quality content, shove ads down our throats, ban users for admitting+advocating adblock, all without explaining why. You've completed the last part, let's keep it that way.

 

[Dragonbums]

I have to use adblock for deviant art, but for other site I am more open.

Same. I think the biggest slap in the face in that regard was that the staff of DA actually put the blame on the users for getting viruses (and a real nasty one at that) on their computers from their ads and not the site itself for letting those ads through.

This mentality of "We can't help it" and "it's not our fault" on the site's part is utter bull for me. What do you mean you can't do anything about it? They are hosting on your site you have total control over which ads get displayed or not.

 

[Norithics]

Ah, I honestly forgot I had it running, considering I still see the banners and little newspaper-esque advertisements. Well, I whitelisted the Escapist- it's one of the few sites I directly respect enough to do so for. The rest just aren't vigilant enough in checking their advertisements for malware for such a cart-blanch approach. It's not that I want to take money out of people's pockets, I just want to stay safe and not get my ears blasted.

 

[KDR_11k]

I don't run ABP, just Ghostery though that also seems to block most ads. The goal isn't to be ad-free though, just to block tracking (which most ads seem to do).

 

[Kross]

I am not sure how viable it would be, but has the concept of a donation option been considered? The Pubclub does work in that way in some regards, but a lump sum probably seems more to a lot of people than a small donation might, even if the former works out as being cheaper in the long run.

Unfortunately, any donation drive would only really be good for a few months. It would help with operational costs, but wouldn't scale with contributors. Then we would constantly be begging for money during "dry" periods, eroding good will. :/

For an idea of what giving up real advertising means, the "good" ad campaigns start at 10s of thousands per month.

As an aside, during the years when we were too small to attract much in the way of "good" advertising campaigns, we had several different "ad sales" people. These people would typically work remotely, and would be paid a stipend plus commission for filling ad space on our sites, and almost universally did NOTHING. We went months/years with barely any ads, and one after another, these leeches would sit there and say they were selling while doing nothing but passing through whatever landed in their lap. Eventually we were able to bring ad sales in-office, and it has been SO MUCH better as far as actually getting the people with money to notice us.

When people ask if we're really so skittish about scaring off advertisers by giving off the impression in our forums that our community uses blocks ads regularly, yes. Yes we are. It's not something people talk about in depth, because it's not something any of us are proud of. This is the sad state of making money off of a website.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't use adblock. I like this site and want to support it with my clicks.

HOWEVER, whoever is in charge of the advertisements makes it difficult to enjoy the content. I can deal with banners, videos, and links that I can click on if something piques my interest. The un-muted autoplay ads, ads that expand when I accidentally cursor over them and then need to X out of, and 5+ minute long commercials(I'm pretty sure one was a Justin Beiber ad, seriously wtf) before a video can all GTFO. Why somebody thought these were okay to have is beyond me.

 

[Kross]

I have seen in the past sites have via some technical wizardry made it so that anyone running Adblock would not be able to access the site at all.
Has the Escapist thought about doing that in order to force everyone to comply with not using Adblockers? And what are your thoughts on such activities and the sites that use them?

We've considered it, but many people don't have a choice due to filtering proxies and such. Also, we understand that ads can just be obnoxious and would rather not punish people for browsing the way they'd like. We do our best to minimize the damage and move on.

 

[Skootz]

The only thing I'll go out of my way to block on sites like the escapist are those infuriating ads that border the video and grey everything else out, effectively removing ALL other functionality from the site. The other stuff is annoying but that I can deal with.

 

[RanceJustice]

Overall, Jim, I certainly applaud your reasonable rationale, which makes me want to support your work and ensure that you are compensated for it. The problem seems to be a technical one, and one with the culture of the ad-supported web. The problem is that the ad-world has become so odious that there isn't simply an easy way to disable ad-block specifically for your content, be shown a very reasonable sort of advertising and not have to worry about tracking objects and other sorts of privacy-invasion, and go about my merry way.

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be possible. I am a strong believer in personal privacy, and I take offense that advertising on the Internet has evolved into something truly horrible - a data mining, privacy-invading, all-encompassing tracking machine designed to leech every real and supposed metric about the viewer to be correlated and sold off to what seems like the least sort of ethical process imaginable.

The ads being blocked aren't simple banners that proffer a product any longer, and that's it! Google is the best example here in many ways - they have some excellent content and tools, and if it was like the early days of Gmail, when you saw a single banner of AdWords (pulled from keywords in that particular email, without trying to profile you etc..) in exchange for best-in-class email, I'd have no problem "paying" in this way. However, we are in a world (or at least, some countries, such as the USA) where what you browse and what these entities learn of you if tracked, might be sold to anyone from targeted advertisers to health insurers who want to find out if you're frequenting cancer survivor or chronic illness websites. Aggregate data of certain groups can be harmful in this regard as well.

I highly suggest that everyone who is at least somewhat of a proficient web-user and wishes to protect their privacy, just to see how deep this rabbit hole goes, use FireFox as their browser (The free and open source web browser designed for the user, not data miners) along with the following addons - AdBlock Plus (or AdBlock Edge), NoScript, Disconnect, Disconnect Search, HTTPS Everywhere, BetterPrivacy, Self Destructing Cookies, and Lightbeam. Lightbeam especially is a good visualization of just how much info and tracking is shared between different sites, and how things you did at one corner of the internet will follow you.

To get back to Jim's request, for someone who has some of these addons, note that The Escapist has just a ton of advertising and tracking scripts. Right now, just right here on this comment page, on NoScript and/or Disconnect I see...

Several Google and Facebook trackers (This includes things like +1/Like buttons that are still tracking you if not blocked)
GoogleAnalytics
Quantcast
Viglink
eXelate
Nielsen
ComScore
DoubleClick
Blockmetrics
ScorecardResearch
SolveMetrics (the capchas that advertise!)

This says nothing for "LSO", otherwise known as "flash supercookies" which are deposited by the vast majority of flash-using videos and are basically hidden and can only be removed with the use of specific tools, like BetterPrivacy.

This is just a sample of what one finds on a site like the escapist, and because I have some scripts and whatnot blocked, that means that there are likely a ton more that would be loaded if their precursors were allowed to load! Many of these networks aren't just about presenting visual advertising, but tracking you. Where I'd happily disable my ad-blocker to see a few seconds of an ad onscreen before the video for Jim to get paid, it just isn't that easy when all these networks abound. It requires significantly more work to "clean up" after you let these invading trackers in (especially if you don't have specialized tools to do so), and if you have a website that you frequent that uses a variety of trackers or ad-networks, you open yourself to the possibilities of dynamic intrusions if you give said website's advertising carte blanche.

It is a sad state of affairs that today's web is infested with this sort of monetization, and it has been allowed to not only become a profitable factor, but often the MOST profitable factor for many sites and operations. Remember what I said before about Google, how I used to "pay" for Gmail during the invite-only days with a single block of ad-words that didn't data mine everything to kingdom come? Hell, today I still like many of Google's applications - and I'd pay an amount per year to have access to the entire suite of Google products and services with the legal promise that in exchange for my subscription fee, Google wouldn't gather any of my personal or usage data and my privacy would be protected. Unfortunately, I don't have this option. Why? Because the monied interests out there who thrive on this pathogenic ad system profit so much, and as we've discovered "Don't Be Evil" only extends as far as the all-mighty dollar, sadly. I'm sure somewhere there's a list of how much revenue per user Google makes on each user (not counting all the tracking done of non-registered users, which is tracked and profitable just as well), and I am pretty sure that it wouldn't be a number that most people would be willing, and many not even able, to pay as a subscription fee.

While I think some issues will only be solved via privacy legislation I think what we all can do for now, content creators and viewers alike, is work together to A) cut out the middle-man when possible and 2) Demand that distributors, site owners, and advertising networks act more ethically. Just in the same way that viewers and creators loudly said no to old-school pop-up ads and BonzaiBuddy, we need to demand that even when there is advertising on the web, that users are informed the exact amount of that "cost", and don't have to worry about metrics, data mining and sales, and other forms of privacy invasions when they choose to view ads and want to support the site. Make the whole situation less offensive to the viewer, and more, especially the privacy conscious, will be willing to take down their blockers. However, as things stand right now, even those that actively consider doing so, most likely won't be able to.

 

[hermes]

It sure doesn't help that half the ads in escapists when accessing from a mobile device try to install apps to it, even without your consent. That is closer to viruses than ads, you know...

 

[alj]

removed for space

this is an amazing post very interesting

do you know if "Disconnect, Disconnect Search, HTTPS Everywhere, BetterPrivacy, Self Destructing Cookies, and Lightbeam" are available on chrome ?

 

[Celador]

You only had to ask Jim. Now i have TWO exceptions in my AdBlock.

But i am not buying you those awful toys on Amazon. And Alan Partridge CD? Really?