Jimquisition: The Trap Of Gamer Gratitude

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MegaGame

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Sep 27, 2013
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Bad Jim said:
Even worse is the idea that we should want to decrease the amount of time we spend playing a game we paid for. Shouldn't we instead buy missions, map packs etc that increase our playing time? More money = more hours of fun?
now that is just crazy talk, why make stuff that cost money to make and that people may actual want to buy, insted just make them buy stuff that cost no real money to make.

This is the way f2p works, make some/few people pay alot for stuff that cost almost nothing to make, and use that money to make stuff that cost moeny, and give that away for free. That way you only have a small part of the people thinking it cost alot to play the game, but have all the people who spent little money on game, together with the freeloaders, think you are the best becouse you give away free stuff.
 

SnakeoilSage

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DrOswald said:
Well that's taking it a bit far. The ideal relationship between a content creator and a content consumer is a relationship of mutual benefit and respect. Ideally we should be thanking them for creating great games and they should be thanking us for buying them. This promotes a strong dialog between the two parties that will result in a net gain for everyone. If we don't acknowledge and appropriately reward behavior we like (not only with a purchase but by vocalizing our satisfaction, consumer loyalty, and spreading the word) then there is no reason for companies to behave in a way we want. You should be thankful, you should be loyal - but only when a content creator deserves it.

If our relationship with content creators is based purely on financial transaction how can we expect them to do anything but base all their decisions purely on financial gain?
[Edited for content]

I know I sound harsh. But the antics of developers these days has made me very slow to trust.
 

Grace_Omega

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Dec 7, 2013
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OMFG at the end I was just thinking "Jim is starting to sound like Littlefinger."

AND THEN THE ACCENT STARTED
 

Random Argument Man

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A lot of people respond to me when I apologize with "Don't apologize. Just don't do it anymore" instead of being grateful for acknowledging that I've wronged them in some way. (In minor offences). I agree with them.
 

NuclearKangaroo

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kotaku is a fucking joke, they are not even trying to speak from a gamer standpoint, they are just another tentacle of the publishers PR monster
 

KisaiTenshi

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There's something wrong with a game design if it is both single player and has "pay to unlock" content. I may consider this in a Freemium game, but not one where you pay once for the game and then again to unlock stuff that came with it. That's like buying a car and then having to buy separate keys for the glovebox. You could just never use the glovebox, but if I knew I wasn't going to get the glovebox on this model I may opt for a different car altogether. (This is not the same reasoning as XM radio or OnStar being installed, those are third-party services.)

***Hello I'm a 30 hour RPG/FPS game that cost 70$ to buy, and I'm going to not let you finish the boss without buying the EZ-MODE switch for 5$. Once you buy this EZ-MODE switch, you'll find it useless to complete the FINAL boss, which you won't be able to win without buying the "DEUS EX MACHINA" button for 15$. Or you could spend the additional 90 hours to level grind your character and save 20$.*** I'm not buying that game in the first place if I know that's in it.

A fun game, players will buy optional content extensions that make logical sense to have. Hello, Warcraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal, circa 1996. A not-fun game however, will not have enough players buy the expansion, and thus the multiplayer possibilities are significantly reduced. Hence there is one problem introduced by expansion packs, is that those who buy the expansion packs can't play with those who haven't. We've been hearing this word a lot "Fragmentation"

The ideal way to solve the need for expansions/episodic gaming without doing EA-insane things (look at the Sims expansion packs) is to actually make the expansions the pay-to-unlock, but still update the game core to prevent fragmentation. So let's say an expansion pack adds characters, weapons, maps and missions. The map/mission is what gives the expansion pack the additional play time, while the characters/weapons do not. If you play with a friend who has bought the expansion pack, that should enable the friend to use the expansion set features with you, who haven't bought the expansion pack, thus providing incentive for you to buy it too.

On the flip side, every time I see the "crate of smurfberries" style of exchanging money for time, I run away. This is just cheating in the guise of "we intentionally make the game painfully hard/time-consuming", there is a reason why freemium game companies have been on a long-term stock slide (Look up Zynga and Nexon), players are just not willing to play their "new" games that have even worse game mechanics that are nothing but pay-to-win.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Elyxard said:
I was worried about this becoming a trend. If GTAV shipped with its broken multiplayer on release, it most assuredly would have tanked all of its review scores.
Would it have affected the actual sales, though?

I bet it just would have led to more petitions to get reviewers fired.

I mean, here and elsewhere, people were effectively saying "psssh. What did you idiots expect? Working multiplayer on day one?" And especially with their claims that the staggered release was about quality assurance....YES!

Citizen Graves said:
And isn't that ironic?

Don't you think?
Not as bad as the fact that I'm getting married today and it's raining....
 

DrOswald

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SnakeoilSage said:
DrOswald said:
Well that's taking it a bit far. The ideal relationship between a content creator and a content consumer is a relationship of mutual benefit and respect. Ideally we should be thanking them for creating great games and they should be thanking us for buying them. This promotes a strong dialog between the two parties that will result in a net gain for everyone. If we don't acknowledge and appropriately reward behavior we like (not only with a purchase but by vocalizing our satisfaction, consumer loyalty, and spreading the word) then there is no reason for companies to behave in a way we want. You should be thankful, you should be loyal - but only when a content creator deserves it.

If our relationship with content creators is based purely on financial transaction how can we expect them to do anything but base all their decisions purely on financial gain?
[Edited for content]

I know I sound harsh. But the antics of developers these days has made me very slow to trust.
I can understand that. But if we don't promote good behavior in the instances where there is good behavior (and they do exist) then there will be no reason for developers to ever improve. I am not saying give EA another chance. They have had all the chances they deserve. But there are plenty of developers who are doing right by the consumer. If you want that trend to grow then you need to support those developers. For example, you can damn well expect me to buy whatever game the FTL team makes next, they have earned my loyalty.

We complain that developers are always short sighted, quick to trade in consumer good will for a dollar. But how can we say that if we are unwilling to give trust to even those developers who consistently do right by us? If there is no consumer loyalty, if there is no long term benefit for good business practices, how can we ask them to think in the long term?

Deserved trust and loyalty on both sides is to everyone's benefit. Short sighted selfishness on either side is to everyone's determent.
 

Baresark

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Dec 19, 2010
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He is, of course, completely right. My buddy had a similar situation with the LAW! He forgot to renew his registration. We take a ride and we get pulled over. He gets a ticket that costs nearly $200, and then thanks the cop because he could have had his jeep towed and impounded, but was nice enough not to. I had to set my buddy strait. I told him, "if he was really trying to help you he would have sent you off with a warning saying he needs to drive right home and not drive it again till he gets his vehicle registered. This is an identical situation. Don't thank them for making it so you can buy your way passed the grind they built into the game on purpose. Don't thank someone for fixing something that broke your game, that never benefited you in the first place.

But, people can be pretty dumb about this stuff. I'm happy to say that most people are not that thankful, I believe. I think that most people are truly outraged in these situation. In the end, all they can do is move past it though. In the future it should affect how they perceive that company, but it may not.
 

loa

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Jan 28, 2012
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But if you're not grateful, you're "entitled" which is a bad thing for some reason.
Here, let me help you out by patronizingly explaining to you that companies need to make money!
 

RobfromtheGulag

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May 18, 2010
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I'm a pretty cynical gamer; I've refrained thus far from purchasing any of these full price + microtransaction games. I get the feeling watching videos like this however that I'm in the minority. PvZ is a poster child for selling out. I haven't followed what the original devs did, hopefully they made out alright (didn't the main guy get kicked off the dev team?) but there's no way I'm paying for the sequels. There've been nothing but reports of glitchiness and pay to play crap since their inception. It'd be like if Pokemon came out and they charged you for 100 of the 150 in game pokemon.

So yea, I'm content replaying Skyrim for the billionth time or spending a few bucks on Dota2 vanity-wear, but I fear the day that the majority of games are this model and I'm forced to drink the Kool-Aid or go without a franchise I really enjoyed (*coughMirror'sEdgecough*).
 

arsenalabu

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May 26, 2011
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Spot1990 said:
arsenalabu said:
Was that an ...Irish accent? I know Aidan Gillen is Irish, but I never thought Petyr Baelish used an accent like... that.
He didn't always but Gillen was in an Irish movie recently, "Calvary". In it he has a really thick accent (Aiden Gillen being the only Irish man who can't comfortably pull off an Irish accent), which he carried over a bit. At least I think he has. Never noticed it before this season.
I didn't hear the accent in the new season, and I doubt Jim saw Calvary.
I always find Gillen's accents annoying, to the point of cringing when he speaks. Even in Calvary he had an annoying set of inflections that seemed a bit OTT whenever he was in the same room as Brendan Gleeson.
I guess in that way, Jim was spot on with the impression.
 

arsenalabu

Iron Maiden's backup Trombonist
May 26, 2011
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Spot1990 said:
arsenalabu said:
Spot1990 said:
arsenalabu said:
Was that an ...Irish accent? I know Aidan Gillen is Irish, but I never thought Petyr Baelish used an accent like... that.
He didn't always but Gillen was in an Irish movie recently, "Calvary". In it he has a really thick accent (Aiden Gillen being the only Irish man who can't comfortably pull off an Irish accent), which he carried over a bit. At least I think he has. Never noticed it before this season.
I didn't hear the accent in the new season, and I doubt Jim saw Calvary.
I always find Gillen's accents annoying, to the point of cringing when he speaks. Even in Calvary he had an annoying set of inflections that seemed a bit OTT whenever he was in the same room as Brendan Gleeson.
I guess in that way, Jim was spot on with the impression.
Maybe his accent was just so bad in Calvary I started to notice it when I hadn't before in GoT. But yeah, nevermind an Irish accent, his inflections just don't even sound like he fully comprehends spoken language. It's like if William Shatner and Lucky The Leprechaun had a child.
Shatner, I couldn't remember his name. Always thought there may have been some Nic Cage blood in there as well, especially after the karate moves in Calvary.
 

red255

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Apr 22, 2014
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Guh, Can we just get over EA? I mean I don't consider them a game company anymore. I haven't bought a game from them that I enjoyed since Dragon Age Origins.

stop giving them money, and attention and they will go away.

Secondly Free to Play. Micro transactions. Now there are bad free to play games. games that are not fun.

But the Free to play model works, with some standing in certain situations.

1.) multiplayer games that need a community. I mean who wants to play a league of legends of FPS shooter game by themselves? Free to play keeps the community ALIVE longer. because otherwise you don't get new players. and the old players are too ...good at the game to let the new players learn in a fun and enjoyable manner.

2.) the transactions, the pay content needs to be available with enough time, reasonable time for other players. the idea is you don't pay to win (scorn) you pay to get what the old time players got and you as a new player want to have to keep up with them.

3.) finally prices must be kept reasonable. although I suppose you can have items meant purely to support the game like an outfit or something that says you paid money for the game.

the EA thing seems to be a failure on the first two events. not sure the third but likely considering its EA who no longer even knows how to make games.

Don't buy EA, don't talk about EA, and don't give EA money.
 

Isengrim

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Aug 20, 2012
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Are these "grateful" people...

FUCKING STUPID?!

...

I am just...

Unleash the nukes, this world has no hope after all!

My bloody god...

That is basically a problem that I see more and more... I look at people that are actively defending the companies when they pull out bullshit like that, and I am in awe how much these idiots- and yes, I use the world idiots - these gullible idiots can take and still be happy about it.

The trick of "starting the fire and being the first trying to put if off" is as old as human society goes, and while I can see people falling for it when it's well executed... fucking seriously... that is not how you scheme! It's obvious to me! AND I AM WEARING GLASSES DAMMIT! ( end of irrelevant caps point no 1 )

Maybe it's just me, but if a game dev I like says something about their new game that concerns me, I will bash them with a bloody stick on their own forums, e-mailing them, etc. just to say "Please, rethink WTF are you doing", and if they make a bullshit mistake that pisses me off, I will bash them with everything I have, not only a bloody stick and eventually putting them on my dev/publisher blacklist ( the ones that I will not buy anything from... ever ).

I do not know how other people call it, but I call it "having some damn self-respect" as well as "having some parts of the brain actually fucking working", and also actually caring for sth.

Taking each and every thing and swallowing it while being happy about it... is hardly a healthy attitude now, is it?

In moments like these I seriously sometimes think that Nietzsche was bloody right... which is scary.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Baresark said:
This is an identical situation.
Well, except the inherent risk at crying foul to the cop. There's an inherent benefit at least at the time to not being an obstacle and in fact to being polite. The same can't be said of EA.

red255 said:
Guh, Can we just get over EA?
Not while they're still a major company with a huge number of intellectual properties at their disposal. Besides, if we ignore EA, if we stop talking about EA, how do we convince others that EA's doing something?
 

mitchell271

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Sep 3, 2010
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I was having a debate on Youtube (I know, an honest to goodness to debate in the Youtube comments, holy shit!) and the other guy was defending on-disc DLC saying that it's good for the publisher AND the consumer with his main arguments being ease of compatibility and how you don't actually own the game, you own the rights to play it.

Gamer gratitude is a backwards and Stockholm Syndrome-esque mindset that not only puts more and more power to the publishers' "Give us all your money" business models.
 

Flunk

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Feb 17, 2008
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MarsAtlas said:
*googles Ichiban*

Oh, well, how nice, some hentai to go with my Jimquisition.
一番 = ichiban = number one / best

Nothing H about that.