Jimquisition: The Wacky Harassment Blame Parade
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
Sorry yes I should have edited the verbal out of that as the verbal was mostly just on CSS and a little on dota 2 but certainly written abuse on all 3 games and they are only a few examples. Dota 2 does have voice chat but I used to get written abuse on original dota and yes I LOVE the mute option on the games but I don't automatically mute everyone and so the hurtful comments come before I do mute them though there are days when I will just automatically mute everyone. I don't hide the fact that I'm a girl and my gamer name since I was 14 has been 'missfreaky'/'missnen' so maybe its my fault for advertising that I'm a girl? But I think not.Ryan Minns said:
I have clue WTF Jim was trying to get at in this video. It seemed to be aimed at nobody in particular, but then a lot of his videos are like that I guess. Ranting at something that some crazy person/people said/did online, and venting his steam at an audience who is 90% nothing like who is supposedly venting at. But apparently disassociating ourselves from crazies is...contributing to the problem somehow? So are we supposed to share the blame? WTF? I don't even know any more.
What a confused mess of a JimQuisition episode.
Anyone who gets harrassed (female or not) needs to learn to deal with it, because absolutely nothing can be done about random online anon's flinging mean words at you. If they're getting harrasssed locally, then call the police and take it from there. Nothing more can be done, accept that fact.
Or if you're Jim, make a video about it.
What a confused mess of a JimQuisition episode.
Purging 4chan will simply result in five more 4chan-like sites popping up. What I mean is that this is the power of the internet, it has it's positives and negatives. A large part of gamer culture simply happens to exist on the internet, and so here we are.leviadragon99 said:
Anyone who gets harrassed (female or not) needs to learn to deal with it, because absolutely nothing can be done about random online anon's flinging mean words at you. If they're getting harrasssed locally, then call the police and take it from there. Nothing more can be done, accept that fact.
Or if you're Jim, make a video about it.
Ah the Miss thing would explain how they'd know. That was what I meant since it was strange to me they'd abuse you for a gender a less specific name wouldn't show. Nothing wrong with your name I just assumed it was more genderless if that makes sense?nenja said:
Counter-trolling never works. I tried it once, and the threat turned into a shitpit of racial slurs and astoundingly poor grammar.Lightknight said:
Trolls are like pot holes; annoying, ugly, but ultimately harmless and easy to avoid.
EDIT: I added some more quote to make thing less ambiguous.
I'm just gonna leave this quote from Winston Rowntree here, because it's relevant to the subject (replace sexism with harassment):
"Very little makes me more pissed off than gender prejudice, but what do I ever do about it? Pretty much I just assume I?m not part of the problem, so enjoy your hive of scum and villainy, everyone, I live on a higher plane. And here you have by far the worst response to sexism: nothing. The response of choice of we who love avoiding confrontation (and comment section shitstorms). And so transgendered people continue to be disproportionately persecuted because not enough people are ensuring a supportive environment, and women continue to get chased off Twitter because not enough people are ensuring a supportive environment, and rape victims continue to not be taken seriously because not enough people are goddamn ensuring a supportive environment. The ability of the Internet to make it seem like there are more assholes than there really are is allowing such bullshit to run wild, and the people who do speak up get hung out to dry by the silence of others. Not enough of us are making it clear that this is the world of the majority and not the vast minority fringe group of idiots, and so the one shithorn talking in the theater ruins the movie for the other 76 people who are afraid to speak up. Peer pressure is what drives humanity. Why aren't there any women/men in certain industries? Because the absence of women/men there keeps the others away. But we can harness peer pressure for good, too, and remind sexists that they are alone in the room -- especially online, because a tidy neighborhood discourages crime, and this is a neighborhood that needs a lot of fixing up."
I'm just gonna leave this quote from Winston Rowntree here, because it's relevant to the subject (replace sexism with harassment):
"Very little makes me more pissed off than gender prejudice, but what do I ever do about it? Pretty much I just assume I?m not part of the problem, so enjoy your hive of scum and villainy, everyone, I live on a higher plane. And here you have by far the worst response to sexism: nothing. The response of choice of we who love avoiding confrontation (and comment section shitstorms). And so transgendered people continue to be disproportionately persecuted because not enough people are ensuring a supportive environment, and women continue to get chased off Twitter because not enough people are ensuring a supportive environment, and rape victims continue to not be taken seriously because not enough people are goddamn ensuring a supportive environment. The ability of the Internet to make it seem like there are more assholes than there really are is allowing such bullshit to run wild, and the people who do speak up get hung out to dry by the silence of others. Not enough of us are making it clear that this is the world of the majority and not the vast minority fringe group of idiots, and so the one shithorn talking in the theater ruins the movie for the other 76 people who are afraid to speak up. Peer pressure is what drives humanity. Why aren't there any women/men in certain industries? Because the absence of women/men there keeps the others away. But we can harness peer pressure for good, too, and remind sexists that they are alone in the room -- especially online, because a tidy neighborhood discourages crime, and this is a neighborhood that needs a lot of fixing up."
Who in this world doesn't take rape victims seriously? That alone to me discredits just about the entire quote.BelindaClock said:
I should have edited that to say male rape victims (here's a link: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men). My mistake.th3dark3rsh33p said:
At this risk of spamming, here's some more quote (once again, replace sexists with harassers):
"The ability of the Internet to make it seem like there are more assholes than there really are is allowing such bullshit to run wild, and the people who do speak up get a tidy neighborhood discourages crime [http://skepchick.org/2013/08/atheism-sexism-and-harassment-the-price-of-speaking-up], and this is a neighborhood that needs a lot of fixing up."
"The ability of the Internet to make it seem like there are more assholes than there really are is allowing such bullshit to run wild, and the people who do speak up get a tidy neighborhood discourages crime [http://skepchick.org/2013/08/atheism-sexism-and-harassment-the-price-of-speaking-up], and this is a neighborhood that needs a lot of fixing up."
Well, that can be true. However, he's still wrong comparing internet communities and irl communities. Anonymity changes just about everything in terms of human interaction. It's also not helped by the ease of liked minded individuals getting in contact with each other over the internet. He addresses us like a single community, which is entirely false. We're a bunch of communities with some similar interest in games. Within smaller groups this behavior is rarely allowed, but there is nothing you can do when someone doesn't care about your smaller group, because he's got his own group that doesn't care.BelindaClock said:
Can I just say a-fucking-men to this post. This is the reality of the situation, not the overly dramatic call-to-arms that Jim's asking for in pursuit of views and ad-revenue. I've been gaming online for 13 years and in that time I've seen every kind of scumbag and every kind of saint. If a girl is being harassed online it's almost always to do with the game itself and it's completely equal to the kind of insults guys direct at other guys. If we wrap every girl in bubble-wrap and proclaim that it's wrong to ever call them out online than we are being just as sexist and misogynistic as the assholes that target girls just for being girls.nenja said:
If you think you're being targeted by trolls, block them, mute them, leave the page, etc. Do what you have to do to get away from it. Confronting that shit only fuels these people, as many, many others on this thread have attested to.
My fear is that if we ignore the trolls (especially when they have access to sensitive information) is that some day a crazy person, who might be written off as just a troll, is going to commit a bigger crime. I see the possibility of things escalating.Magenera said:
I studied early Civil Rights history (in America), I am starting to see similarities between these trolls and the major hate groups. First came the loud obnoxiousness, then came the vandalizing (where police were ignoring the issue, mostly, some even joined in), then came the lynchings, then came the riots, then came the public outcry and silence was no longer a viable option.
I can not turn my back to the trolls, for I legitimately fear, that they will attack me. Silence is the Rape victims worse enemy, living in fear constantly destroys a persons mind. At this stage we are fortunate, if we prosecute the ones making threats, we can head off further destruction.
I will not live in fear, I will fight with any lawful means possible.
Milk milk. Milking on the farm of ads.odinzeus said:
Trying to get people into a cause by trying to make them feel inadequate and immoral. Oldest trick in the book.
I feel that this topic, whilst valid, is never properly addressed. Yes, women are treated poorly within the industry and by the gaming community as whole, of that there is no doubt, however, for all the videos, for all the discussion, there's never analysis as to why this is the case. Sure it's easy to say "There's a large demographic of jaded male misogynist/gynophobic gamers who demean and harass women within, or commenting on, the industry. It needs to stop". But I think there needs to be a question as to "Why are there so many jaded male misogynist/gynophobic gamers to begin with"? I believe these issues, that are becoming all the more common, are but a symptom of deep rooted problems that are never addressed or even acknowledged.
I don't know if everything written here is truth but never the less this is just about the best post here. Only sad thing is that nobody will cover this and paste it all over the media since it won't bring clicks and visits unlike cries of professional victims.nenja said:
Enjoy your games and report trolls. Peace out!
Oooooh...
Gamers are like Feminists now? A giant hive-mind where each and every individual is wholly responsible for any and all statements and opinions of anyone also identifying with the same group?
Well, rest assured, from this moment on I will start sending out positive thoughts of inclusiveness, respect and tolerance to the hive.
Gamers are like Feminists now? A giant hive-mind where each and every individual is wholly responsible for any and all statements and opinions of anyone also identifying with the same group?
Well, rest assured, from this moment on I will start sending out positive thoughts of inclusiveness, respect and tolerance to the hive.
Let's back up a second and remove gender from the Equation, Jim also did a video about Phil Fish leaving videogames for being relentlessly trolled on his ultimately irrelevant opinions like he was Roger Goddamn Egbert or something, this isn't an issue solely about women, (although they do seem to frequently cop the worst of it for no other reason than their gender) nor is the backlash against this kind of bullshit only happening when women are targeted, this is an issue with cowardly asshats hiding behind the anonymity of the internet as they project their impotent rage and lack of self worth onto others. Trying to make the anti-dickhead movement Jim is in favour of about protecting one gender over the other is not that far away from the same kind of blame-redirection bullshit Jim is right to call out.Yuuki said:
End of the day, no-one should have to put up with this bullshit, it may be difficult to fight but it's not impossible, it just requires a commitment to not turning a blind eye, nor accepting it as the status quo, it means finding new ways to change ingrained attitudes and to effectively (somehow) exclude from the internet people that are determined to eternally be raging cockholes, even if the fight were essentially futile, then it'd still be worth having, is real world crime not worth dealing with because there's always going to be people willing to commit it? Abandoning the internet as a cesspool of horrible people is a self-fulfilling prophecy, just because you think it's an insurmountable problem, don't expect everyone else to stand aside.
It fits the reported facts better, given that there was no reportage of this before December from when the game was first taken down, it doesn't assume anything not in evidence and Wizardchan is quite frankly an obscure forum. It is not like 4Chan, which everybody knows about.th3dark3rsh33p said:
The Dev in question would need a reason to find Wizardchan in the first place, something the first series of events doesn't supply. At all.
Geez, how embarassing, stuff like that is still going on?
And I'm certainly not going to harass or defend people because I somehow agree or disagree with the way they lead their life or anything, because I try not to judge people, but sometimes I really wonder what people gain from such behaviour.
It can't be money or fame, so I guess they're just always angry?
And I'm certainly not going to harass or defend people because I somehow agree or disagree with the way they lead their life or anything, because I try not to judge people, but sometimes I really wonder what people gain from such behaviour.
It can't be money or fame, so I guess they're just always angry?
All of this about being held accountable for other people's actions? What a gargantuan pile of dismbodied elephant bollocks [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit]. There are few people (in gaming communities at large, doubly so on the Escapist) who would condone/tolerate the sort of behaviour you report in your video, but the fact is that if there was actually anything people could do about it, then people would bloody well be doing it. Unfortunately, there is very little [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bugger_all] one can do against an anonymous avatar, nor is it your responsibility [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante] to do so, because everyone knows [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10012382/Boston-bomb-Reddit-apologises-for-identifying-wrong-suspects.html] how well that always works out [http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1344982/trial-by-social-media-police-criticise-response-to-mardi-gras-excessive-force-video/] every time guaranteed [http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/29/digital-vigilantism-think-before-pictures-of-wrongdoing-online]. Most societies appoint figures to cut out shit like this harassment. In this case, the moderators are responsible for the site, and the police are responsible for the rest. The fact is it's very difficult to prosecute for the phone calls, but that is a failure in the law, not the people who happen to be passing by at the time.
Seriously, "don't feed the trolls" is an internet mantra for a damn good reason. If you reprimand someone for sexist BS, then someone ignorant enough to have posted it in the first place is unlikely to be swayed into becoming a better person by your calling them out, so you've wasted your time. And if they are, indeed, a troll - then you've shoved down their gullet a not-insubstantial quantity of the attention they crave so they'll find a new target - rinse & repeat - so you'll actually have been counter-productive (and wasted your time). Thebest only thing you can do in the short term is report it and move on. And don't get me wrong, I think you should report that shit any and every time you see it, but unless you're a mod (or law enforcement officer) you should subsequently stand aside.
So by all means lobby for an overhaul in the law regarding "IRL" harassment (also feel free to harangue the forum or wherever for more moderation I guess), but stop flinging poo at everyone who has the gall to be present. You talk of "the gaming community" as if it's a hive mind or something - worse still, that it's one single community [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Spurious?s=t]. And I'm glad you brought up the topic of "fracturing [http://writingishard.wordpress.com/2010/07/02/logical-fallacy-friday-the-false-dilemma/] the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_us_or_against_us] community [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma]" there, Jim - I'd say you've done a sterling [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pun] job of bringing us all together.
As for the argument about people "covering [sexism/harassment in VG communities] up", that's something I don't really recall ever having seen (smells a bit like straw to me [http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html]). To be perfectly honest, I only see this sexism/harassment stuff when someone goes out of their way to inform me of it, ~95% via the Escapist forums, but at least I have seen that, even if I am beginning to tire of the "social justice warrior" routine that seems to be almost the entirety of the Escapist these days. Fortunately, Zero Punctuation seems to be holding out (for now).
I've disagreed with some of your points before, Mr. Sterling, but this is the first time I've seen a video that seems so utterly specious that I cannot help but lose some respect for you. Son, I am disappoint. I hope you step your game back up soon, 'cause I enjoy your videos in the most part.
Seriously, "don't feed the trolls" is an internet mantra for a damn good reason. If you reprimand someone for sexist BS, then someone ignorant enough to have posted it in the first place is unlikely to be swayed into becoming a better person by your calling them out, so you've wasted your time. And if they are, indeed, a troll - then you've shoved down their gullet a not-insubstantial quantity of the attention they crave so they'll find a new target - rinse & repeat - so you'll actually have been counter-productive (and wasted your time). The
So by all means lobby for an overhaul in the law regarding "IRL" harassment (also feel free to harangue the forum or wherever for more moderation I guess), but stop flinging poo at everyone who has the gall to be present. You talk of "the gaming community" as if it's a hive mind or something - worse still, that it's one single community [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Spurious?s=t]. And I'm glad you brought up the topic of "fracturing [http://writingishard.wordpress.com/2010/07/02/logical-fallacy-friday-the-false-dilemma/] the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_us_or_against_us] community [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma]" there, Jim - I'd say you've done a sterling [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pun] job of bringing us all together.
As for the argument about people "covering [sexism/harassment in VG communities] up", that's something I don't really recall ever having seen (smells a bit like straw to me [http://www.fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html]). To be perfectly honest, I only see this sexism/harassment stuff when someone goes out of their way to inform me of it, ~95% via the Escapist forums, but at least I have seen that, even if I am beginning to tire of the "social justice warrior" routine that seems to be almost the entirety of the Escapist these days. Fortunately, Zero Punctuation seems to be holding out (for now).
I've disagreed with some of your points before, Mr. Sterling, but this is the first time I've seen a video that seems so utterly specious that I cannot help but lose some respect for you. Son, I am disappoint. I hope you step your game back up soon, 'cause I enjoy your videos in the most part.