Jimquisition: Used Games Have A Right To Exist

Jan 27, 2011
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0_0 That online space thing is brilliant. I hadn't considered that. It makes perfect sense, so why the hell are they able to pull the wool over our eyes like that?!

That being said, I've always been for used games. I don't see a problem with it, seeing as (as you said) someone bought the game new already.

Plus, if you like it, you might end up buying the next game/other games by that publisher new.

Also, Steam offers its own method to help consumers who can't/won't shell out tons of money: Frequent sales that sometimes become insanely good (2$ for Alpha protocol? 7$ for Borderlands and all DLC? YES. PLEASE).
 

SonOfVoorhees

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If i buy a game, its mine. I own it. Its my property and i can do what i want with it. Same as cds, dvds, cars and anything else i buy. But isnt it funny only game companies ***** about it and not car companies or anything else.

Also if i couldnt buy second hand games or rent games, then i just wouldnt buy certain titles.
 

Kapol

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May 2, 2010
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You know, the only really good examples Jim presented were pretty much all focused on one company, EA. Focusing on a single company, no matter how big of assholes they are, doesn't make a good argument. And the focus is that used games aren't as bad as piracy. Well... duh. Even if they say otherwise, even companies that say it is realize it's not. It may be as bad for the company to some degree, perhaps even worse due to it being something completely legal, therefore there's nothing to deter people from buying used.

The example given about DLC released on the first day I do agree with. That's complete BS. What they should have done is made the online not require an online pass and instead made it so anyone who purchased the game new got all those extra suits and such that you didn't need.

I also agree with the argument against the fact that publishers are trying to screw over their customers by saying they don't have the right to do what they'd like with their products (such as Sony claiming that, when you purchase the PS3, you're really only purchasing a license to use it, at least I think it was Sony who said that).

Then again, these are businesses. They have to do whatever they can to make as much money as they possibly can. For them, it's not about the 'art' or making the perfect game, it's about making as much money as possible. And there's nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Without that attitude, they likely wouldn't stay in business long.


Anyways, I digressed. One problem I'm seeing with the series is that it only looks at one side without even acknowledging the other sides argument unless it's simply to call them complete crap then barely expanding on why they're crap other then because he says so. That doesn't make for a good argument. I know this is an opinion-based series, but it's still a problem in my opinion.
 

RJ Dalton

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Personally, I'd be more willing to buy games new instead of used if a) They weren't so expensive and b) less of them were complete shit.
 

Littaly

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I'll confess that I don't have any sources to back this statement up, so someone, please correct me if I'm wrong. But when you ask "aren't they making enough money already?" you make it sound like most publishers are greedy bastards sitting on piles of money, trying to suck you dry every chance they get. But the last thing I heard was that the only publisher who was turning a profit was Activision (and that was before they pulled the plug on Guitar Hero). I'm not saying their ways of making gamers pay more for their games aren't assy, I hate them too, but a company is a company, you can't expect them to sit and do nothing when they're losing money.
 

Scrustle

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LOVING this mini-series to far! My exact sentiments Jim! I really hope someone listens to this. I.E. PUBLISHERS!
 

Kingsnake661

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gphjr14 said:
It is a shame people don't realize they're being fucked over by DLC and online codes. When the game is bought brand new that is all the publisher is entitled to not one cent more.
Oh, i know i'm getting screwed over, the PROBLEM IS, if i like the game enough, I want the DLC. It's not as huge a deal for me persay, I don't game nearly as much as I used too, and so far, I'd say in the last 2 years, there have been like, maybe 6 games i liked enough to get DLC for. Mass Effects (both), Civ 5... CoH booster packs... That... accually may be it... less then I though, oh and Deus Ex in Oct. Mass 3 when it comes out... can't think of anything else that's got my eye...

So, I know i'm getting screwed... and a part of me kind of cares, but, I'm willing to endure it for games I really like. It's a vice. I don't give people a hard way to go when they blow there money on ciggerets, lotto tickets, or other "vices" they have that is, more or less, a total waste of money, because they enjoy it, and it isn't my place to judge.

I will say this about the video. I've always kind of been on the fence about used games. NEVER figured them in the same ball park as pirates, but, was always sympitic to developers over the lost revenue, but, this video is kind of swaying me. Jim, god forbid, made some decent points. I suppose what sours ME to used games is the fact i feel gamestop in general kind of screws over the kids with there prices, and, only shave off what, maybe 5 bucks off newer used games? I think that's borderline taking advantage of the poor kids who don't know anybetter, but, eh, it is a way from them to afford a different game they might not have gotten otherwise...

*shrug*

Food for thought anyways, nice ep.
 

PeePantz

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Hitchmeister said:
Terrible terrible argument. "I can waste as much money as I want on crap games, thereby encouraging publisher to keep making even worse games, because I can turn around and resell them to some other sucker who will also hate it. It doesn't matter how bad games get because of the lemming-like churn of money to be made off cycle bad games around the toilet of current gaming."

Show a little self-control and don't give publishers your money for games you hate and you won't need to be able to resell them to to the next poor sod.

But don't cry because you're too stupid to recognize crap after being sold it repeatedly. And don't blame the publishers for thinking that what you really want is more of the same crap you've resold time and time again. They can't hear you over the piles of your money they're busy counting.
Hey, it happens. When it does, it's like a last line of defense. If I enjoy a game, there's no way I'm going to sell it back. However when something turns out to be utter shit, hell yes I'm going to flip it and make more game purchases. Used games are the rare instance where shitty games can actually help the industry.
 

Still Life

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Kapol said:
You know, the only really good examples Jim presented were pretty much all focused on one company, EA.
I think for the sake of keeping the video to a manageable and punchy length, it is quite necessary to focus on one particular player on the field. And not without merit: EA is arguably the biggest proponent of ethically questionable consumer policies.
 

Sir Prize

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I'm in agreed with all the points made Jim, and here's something for those who still defend the publishers and alike. If the offered 'free' DLC and alike from a new purchase isn't enough to make someone want to buy a game, then that's their fault not the buyer's. Stop trying to defend those who will go to lenghts to wring you dry of all you money and probably don't give a damn about you. Also let others be smart with their money if they want.

I like used games because after finishing or not using a game for however long, I can get rid of it without feeling like it's been wasted. I can get games that lack demons and see if I like them without having to lose £40-£50, on something I may not like. Also it lets me get a really old game that I missed out on.
 

Kapol

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May 2, 2010
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Still Life said:
Kapol said:
You know, the only really good examples Jim presented were pretty much all focused on one company, EA.
I think for the sake of keeping the video to a manageable and punchy length, it is quite necessary to focus on one particular player on the field. And not without merit: EA is arguably the biggest proponent of ethically questionable consumer policies.
I can understand that to a degree, but most of the video seemed a bit rambly to me, and more examples could have easily been included. It just seems a bit silly to focus on easily the worst company and then say that ALL companies are guilty of doing the same sort of horrible things.
 

PeePantz

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Littaly said:
I'll confess that I don't have any sources to back this statement up, so someone, please correct me if I'm wrong. But when you ask "aren't they making enough money already?" you make it sound like most publishers are greedy bastards sitting on piles of money, trying to suck you dry every chance they get. But the last thing I heard was that the only publisher who was turning a profit was Activision (and that was before they pulled the plug on Guitar Hero). I'm not saying their ways of making gamers pay more for their games aren't assy, I hate them too, but a company is a company, you can't expect them to sit and do nothing when they're losing money.
Okay, I'll bite. You're wrong, very wrong. I could post several more, but here's EA's June quarter profits: http://www.vgchartz.com/article/87355/ea-profits-221m-in-the-june-2011-quarter-on-999m-in-revenue/
 

Mangue Surfer

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Hitchmeister said:
Terrible terrible argument. "I can waste as much money as I want on crap games, thereby encouraging publisher to keep making even worse games, because I can turn around and resell them to some other sucker who will also hate it. It doesn't matter how bad games get because of the lemming-like churn of money to be made off cycle bad games around the toilet of current gaming."

Show a little self-control and don't give publishers your money for games you hate and you won't need to be able to resell them to to the next poor sod.

But don't cry because you're too stupid to recognize crap after being sold it repeatedly. And don't blame the publishers for thinking that what you really want is more of the same crap you've resold time and time again. They can't hear you over the piles of your money they're busy counting.
The problem with your argument is that quality is subjective. For example, Uncharted 2, all the reviews are ?OMG!OMG!OMG!OMG!OMG!? and the demo was ok. So I bought the game and dude, get bored really fast. I traded the game with a cousin who love it and now can?t wait to play the Uncharted 3. See, buy a game don't destroy the industry, dislike a game don?t make it a crap and second hand marketing don?t kill the franchise.
 

Kingsnake661

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Littaly said:
I'll confess that I don't have any sources to back this statement up, so someone, please correct me if I'm wrong. But when you ask "aren't they making enough money already?" you make it sound like most publishers are greedy bastards sitting on piles of money, trying to suck you dry every chance they get. But the last thing I heard was that the only publisher who was turning a profit was Activision (and that was before they pulled the plug on Guitar Hero). I'm not saying their ways of making gamers pay more for their games aren't assy, I hate them too, but a company is a company, you can't expect them to sit and do nothing when they're losing money.
I have a hard time beliving Activision was the ONLY company to make money... I'd need a source to belive that... but I do understand that not all game publishers are greedy basterds. And if used games ARE hurting there proft margens, they do need to do something about it, they just need better stragities. The stuff they are pulling off now, just pisses off there fan base, and doesn't really do much to battle the REAL enemy, gamestop and the like. Not US. But then, what they can do besides what they are, i'm not sure. I don't have an answer to that question... *shrug* Again, a reason i tend to be on the fence about this issue. I can kind of see some merit to both arguments.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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cpt blackamar said:
I like how jim has actually turned from making rather useless points to actually ones of real value. The guys at extra credits are still doing it better, but it's good to have someone else actually chipping in things of worth
Not if you watched the one episode on cutscenes
they couldnt have missed the point worse if they had aimed in the opposite direction
 

Still Life

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Littaly said:
I hate them too, but a company is a company, you can't expect them to sit and do nothing when they're losing money.
It does no one any good when the policies are beginning to choke consumers with unnecessary BS. As for the point on profit. Not sure.

EA recently took out a sizable loan to help cover its expenditures in acquiring Popcap in its bid to take a larger share of the casual market. I don't think a loan would have been taken out if their economic analysts hadn't forecasted a reasonable profit turnover.

Activision turned over double profit (1.3 billion in revenue) last year, so I'm pretty sure the big publishers are doing just fine.
 

Invader_Ace

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Jim, thanks for, making "The Live by Capitalism, Die by Capitalism" argument. It's one you never see brought up, at least clearly enough. If the industry wants to rake in the profits through the system, then fuck them saying I can't sell my stuff.

It's Capitalism bitches!
 

Mechanix

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Thank you Jim, thank you for making this video. It's ridiculous how many people buy into the notion that used games are evil. Hopefully your video will change the opinions of the majority who are unable to think for themselves. And bravo on your capitalist argument; in my opinion, that statement about the positives and negatives of capitalism won the used games argument, and any argument from the other side cannot compete with that.

Keep up the good work.
 

PeePantz

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Still Life said:
Littaly said:
I hate them too, but a company is a company, you can't expect them to sit and do nothing when they're losing money.
It does no one any good when the policies are beginning to choke consumers with unnecessary BS. As for the point on profit. Not sure.

EA recently took out a sizable loan to help cover its expenditures in acquiring Popcap in its bid to take a larger share of the casual market. I don't think a loan would have been taken out if their economic analysts hadn't forecasted a reasonable profit turnover.

Activision turned over double profit (1.3 billion in revenue) last year, so I'm pretty sure the big publishers are doing just fine.
The funny thing with that is the fact they didn't even need to take out the loan. They had the money but didn't want to use it. Therefor, Popcap is essentially paying itself in order to exist.