Jimquisition: Used Games Have A Right To Exist

[ZeZZZZevy]

He actually does make some good points here.

I personally am fine with used games existing. It's a market, which is fine. I do have a problem with people complaining that their used game isn't exactly the same as a new copy (aka content was cut because you didn't buy it new).

I would like to see digital distribution see wider adoption (especially on consoles) because prices go down and money is still sent to the publisher. So everybody wins.

 

[Michael Hirst]

There should be less banging on about some mroal highground in this debate, it comes down to 2 very simple facts, Publishers want more money from the videogames they release and consumers want the option of paying less for a game and thus making them affordable.

Pre-owned should be an option just like it is for every other media out there and lending someone a game should also be fine and legal, afterall like Jim says it means someone has actually paid the price for that product at least once. I hate having a good game that I think others should play and not being able to let them play it, even though lending can really help games.

I'll use 2 examples from the PS2 here. Firstly Ace Combat: The Unsung War, I bought this game because I had been a long time fan of the Ace Combat games but missed out on 4 (it just wasn't anywhere to be found) a few of my friends weren't very interested in flying games saying they found them tedious etc, I let them borrow Ace Combat, they won it and then proceeded to buy the next instalments themselves but they wouldn't have if someone hadn't let them take that first uncertain step by lending them a game to try out.

On the flip side I was undecided about Persona 3 until a friend of mine wanted to buy FES and GAVE me his original copy, I played the game and really liked it then furhter in the future I bought both Persona 4 and P3P brand new (hell I actually imported P3P to the UK because there were no plans for a release at that time)

Finally a note to EA, Activision and any other greedy buggers who want even more money, YOU'RE DOING FINE YOUR BUSINESS IS HUGE AND BLOOMING YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN.

 

[Prosis]

I live in a moderately sized town in America.

In this moderately sized town, one can buy goods with money. They can be new, or they can be used.

I can buy used furniture, I can buy used clothes, I can buy used books, I can buy used appliances, I can buy used computers, I can buy used DVD's, I can buy used cars, I can buy used books, I can buy a used house.

One may argue that for every thing that I buy used, I am stealing money from the original company. If I buy a used fridge, that is one less fridge that is sold. If I buy a used car, that is one less car sold. However, these remain legal to do. Why? Because by purchase, I own these things.

My point is this: video game companies, suck it up. EVERY other industry puts up with used sales cutting into their slice. Sucks for you, but that's the way the system works.
Would video game companies make more money if used sales did not exist? Possibly. There's to many variations with supply/demand, advertisement, and consumers being able to afford new material to really be able to answer.

Should video game companies get special privileges that no other industry is granted?

I think not.

If games don't make enough profit to cover the expense of making the game, its not because of used game sales. Either your advertising sucks, or your game sucks (or is at least not as good as you thought it'd be). Improve your game or advertising, or make cheaper games. Just like any other industry

 

[Aardvaarkman]

While overall making some good points, Jim got one thing wrong:

While, physically, it is possible to throw your game in a river and run away, it is not legal to do so. That's littering, which is not only a legal crime, it's also morally wrong and deeply inconsiderate to your fellow humans.

 

[Kojiro ftt]

While I generally agree with Jim here, I am actually in favor of dropping the physical media altogether. I love digital downloads and all the advantages of it, especially how damn cheap the games get on Steam, which I am sure you could trace back to the fact that there is no manufacturing, shipping, and brick and mortar shop taking their cut.

 

[theaceplaya]

I never would have bought Assassin's Creed 2 and Brotherhood new if I hadn't been able to buy AC1 used. Just putting that out there.

 

[Karma168]

They have options, they can't *****. It's not like they're being forced to buy used. If they're that strapped for cash, but they can't wait for a sale, I think I know one reason why they're strapped for cash in the first place.

Nobody is forced to buy preowned but when you have a limited amount of free cash you're going to look at the cheapest option. Go look at any game (older the better) and i bet you can get a used copy for much less than a new copy. Why choose the more expensive option when there is a equally good product for much less?

Do you, or have you ever owned a car? Did you buy new or used? The same principle applies here, you have two equal products but one is much cheaper than the other and no profits from the resale go to the manufacturer. Should car makers apply a one use licence that means unless they get paid an extra grand your car becomes illegal? Even the motor industry isn't that stupid, instead of putting people off buying their cars they've made it so they are the only ones who can fix them (due to high tech, enclosed engine blocks) and make their money from that; so even though they get no money for that used car they recoup the loss through continued maintenance.

That's what games need to do; by putting out high quality dlc (i.e not shitty £10 map packs) that keep the game interesting and makes either the original owner want to keep it or the new buyer pay more for it then you would see an improvement. The current system penalises preowned customers instead of tempting them to pick up the product; think about it, if you have to pay another £5 to get access to content that may either be utter crap or unusable (i.e deserted multiplayer) then that's not going to make the customer happy is it? They will feel cheated and may not pick up any new games you produce (i.e the sequel argument Jim made last week). Instead if you produce good dlc then people would be happy to pay if they liked your game and it wouldn't matter if they bought new or not, your still making money. To encourage new purchases they could use something like the Cerberus network from Mass Effect 2 that gives new customers a discount on dlc.

The correct way forward is to make things like dlc good enough that people want to buy it regardless of how they got the game. By locking out parts of the game people will just avoid it until it's cheap enough that either the loss isn't noticeable or until the price is low enough that even with the extra unlock costs they are still better off buying preowned than new.

 

[Littaly]

I'll confess that I don't have any sources to back this statement up, so someone, please correct me if I'm wrong. But when you ask "aren't they making enough money already?" you make it sound like most publishers are greedy bastards sitting on piles of money, trying to suck you dry every chance they get. But the last thing I heard was that the only publisher who was turning a profit was Activision (and that was before they pulled the plug on Guitar Hero). I'm not saying their ways of making gamers pay more for their games aren't assy, I hate them too, but a company is a company, you can't expect them to sit and do nothing when they're losing money.

I don't mean to sound harsh but you may want to get sources if you do try and say things like that.

EA made nearly $221 million PROFIT, thats profit not revenue. The revenue was close to $1 billion. That was just the June 2011 quarter, NOT the whole year. So we'll quadruple that to $884 million which will probably work out more so nearly a $1 billion PROFIT for the whole year on a $4 billion revenue.

Oh sh*t, my bad then. It was something I sort of heard a year or so back, and since I hadn't heard anything else since, I assumed it was still the case. I should probably have looked it up before opening my mouth.

I'll take back most of what I said, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[GonzoGamer]

I still hate Gamestop do to other business practices, but I still go to Game X change :3

I don?t think that anyone is suggesting that Gamestop?s practices are good for gamers or the industry at large. Just that we have every right to buy used and trade in old games without losing data. Gamestop has only gouged the market to the point where you may as well buy a new copy (as the used price is usually only a savings of a dollar or two) but as they limit their new stock so the consumer has little choice.
So all these schemes like $10 pass and dlc codes aren?t going to deter crap if gamers are still only offered a used copy when they go to gamestop.
So once again, why are the publishers going after the few remaining pennies in the pockets of gamers who buy used rather than going after that market share which gamestop so readily abuses. They wouldn?t have to try too hard to offer gamers a better deal than gamestop and it would actually solve their problem.
I?m not saying that publishers don?t have any rights to used sales, just that if they don?t actually fill that spot for the consumer, they can?t decide it would just be easier to be dicks to the consumers who may buy new later...like I do.

 

[Bonecrusher]

Companies that protest used games are awkward, but I really bored from the guys who try to justify those companies...

I agree with Jim Sterling on this topic.
I wish that weird companies could also see it.

 

[Rawne1980]

Oh sh*t, my bad then. It was something I sort of heard a year or so back, and since I hadn't heard anything else since, I assumed it was still the case. I should probably have looked it up before opening my mouth.

I'll take back most of what I said, thanks for clearing that up.

Actually bud I owe you an apology.

I re-read my post and it did sound a bit harsh like I was digging at you and thats not what I wanted.

To put it a nicer way which I should have done first is to say you were not 'far' wrong.

The big companies like EA and Activision do make one hell of a profit.

The little companies that try and compete for the same shares of the gaming market are the ones making a loss. Some of them do bring in a decent income but a lot of them struggle a bit which is how EA and Activision manage to put them under and take their employees and ideas.

You were on the right tracks you just needed to look a little underneath the big companies.

The smaller ones do struggle and it is a tough business to compete in when you have so many companies all vying for our business and we can only spend so much on games a year. We can't give everyone a profit and it is unfortunate that some smaller companies do struggle.

So again, I apologise for sounding a bit like a lecture in my last post, you were on the right lines and I should have explained myself better.

 

[drkchmst]

Don't forget one of the most subsidized industries in the US is the video game industry. I would put money on most of the video game industry in the US being software development. Basically we're paying for our games twice over and then some.

 

[funguy2121]

Used Games Have A Right To Exist

Publishers would have you believe that used games are the biggest threat to the games industry. Even gamers will sympathize with these huge companies and equate the used market with piracy. Unlike piracy, however, used games have plenty of right to exist and are not the demonic entity others make them out to be. Jim Sterling, naturally, has the band-aid of reality to plaster over your fantasy cuts.

Watch Video

Best vid I've seen of yours/Jim's (do you/does he read these?) yet.

Just a thought.

Millions (billions?) of our dollars were used to bail out Detroit, decades after they collectively stopped making quality cars ("we'll let the Japanese do that!") and started churning out vehicles with a guaranteed expiration date (we can exclude Pontiac for this, IF they bring back the Solstice so I can trade my Grand Am in for one). And yet I've never once hear of Daimer-Chrysler or GM saying "we have to stop this godawful used car market, it's killing our profits! Down with Car Fax!"

Please, someone, tell me how cars and movies and music are all different from video games.

 

[leeprice133]

If I purchase an item, I damn well expect to own that item outright. If I want to sell it on when I'm done using it, that should be up to me. Publishers have already guaranteed themselves monster profits by negotiating ridiculously lengthy intellectual property rights. Fuck 'em if they want to sell me something then tell me I have to give them a back-hander to use it...

 

[Valthek]

Dear Jim sterling.
I take back every argument I made against your first videos. Maybe I'm a little late to the party here, but your videos have improved greatly in quality. Great points are made, intelligent arguments are used to support them and overall quality is delivered.

 

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, the whole publisher attack on used games is garbage.

You can buy and sell used books, used CD's, and used DvD's. Any product that you buy, you can re-sell. At least, right now you can. If we let them shut down used games, then there's no reason book sellers couldn't use the exact same argument to shut down used book stores.

 

[Aprilgold]

It is a shame people don't realize they're being fucked over by DLC and online codes. When the game is bought brand new that is all the publisher is entitled to not one cent more.

Basically, your right, these online codes and other forms of DRM are just there to cut down on legal things.

I still think Publishers are just trying to jump the shark and land in Online Gaming area where games are sold through vendors like Steam or Origin. Abandoning the vessel of consoles.... But thats just me, consoles have a ton of generations left, just that every publisher seems to be knee jerking themselves into thinking consoles are going to die very soon, want to milk all the money off of those people then jump onto online distribution, when its just not true.