Jimquisition: Vertigo

[Thanatos2k]

The husbands are also dumb, often dumber than their children. It's considered anti-woman to portray women as a fat, dumb wife in a marriage on TV. She always has to be the smart one that can insult or hit her husband when the script calls for it.

Well, anyone remember the sitcom Roseanne? Roseanne, played by Roseanne Barr, was a fat "unattractive" wife character who wasn't really that smart all things considered. (The thin sister was the smart one). Her husband? John Goodman, playing a character even fatter and dumber than her. Because even back then in something that broke traditional molds that's how it had to be.

What about characters from League of Legends?

League of Legends and Dota don't have characters, they have avatars.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Snip,

There is one Gears of War female playable character that comes to mind here in regards to you asking where the old grey haired ones are:

Spoiler: Bernadette.

Bernadette is based off a New Zealander who is racially mixed (half Maori, half Caucasian) so she's got a bit of uniqueness there as well.

I'm not disagreeing with your overall point, I'm just saying Gears of War has a 50+ years old lady who's kicking ass with the rest of them.

Ah sweet!
Thanks for that!

That actually lightened up my mood.
Being who I am, I'm the literal bottom of the barrel when it comes to representation. Right there next to the LGBT community.
Really nice to see things like this from time to time.

No worries, like I said, I agree with your sentiment, but there is still the odd ones out there. Just wish there was more variation. Would make things interesting.

 

[Dragonbums]

Care to explain why so many women want to be a princess and so few want to be Rambo. Could it be because the vast majority of women do have similar tastes? That would explain why chick-flicks appeal mainly to women, while action movies don't.

I'll say it again:

CITATION.

NEEDED.

You need a citation to tell you that little girls prefer to be princesses and women prefer chick flicks? Have you never met a woman before?

What about everything covered with the Disney Princesses? The dress up dolls aren't aimed at boys.
http://princess.disney.com/shop

Here's a definition of chick-flick:
"a motion picture intended to appeal especially to women".

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chick%20flick

Finally here's a study of movie preferences based on race, age, and gender. They found that women prefer romance; while men prefer action and sci-fi.
http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/sfischo/media3.html

All of them are preconceived stereotypes projected on girls (and boys with action figures and cars) to mold them into cookie cutter demographics of what boys and girls should like.

As a woman myself, I like princesses at first because that is what every other girl liked and girls should like princesses. So, as a normal girl I "liked" princesses. That slowly deviated when I got my first videogame console the N64, and I started to enjoy more "boy" things like Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Digimon, and basically said fuck that monsters are cool. Which then lead me to liking shows like Zoids, and ignoring those shit girl shows like the old MLP.
Luckily my parents never forced me back into the "girly" mold, and let me like what I like.

The consequence being that from Elementary to Middle school I was picked on for being a weirdo, a tomboy, and all manner of insults associated with girls that don't fit into the "girly" category. And it wasn't until my High school years that I started to have friends circles that weren't all guys but me.

Today, parents will have no problems letting their little girls buy dolls along with action figures if it so tastes their fancy. Seeing as how feminism has pushed hard to break that stereotype.

However bless the poor boy that dares to even so much as suggest an interest in a doll or any other "girly" product like easy bakes. The kid will be labelled a potential gay before the child even knows what the hell it means.

Your personal anecdote is inspiring, but that claim is outright debunked (for the most part) in the documentary I keep on posting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiJVJ5QRRUE

or if you want to skip the video and go right down to the nitty gritty:
http://www.math.kth.se/matstat/gru/5b1501/F/sex.pdf (Simon Baron Cohen's recent study of newborns)

Things being expressed earlier are MORE the result of biology than culture, not the other way around.

So a fucking documentary has more say and validity over me- a woman, who was at some point a little girl living the stereotype of dolls and princesses because some scientist said "because biology?"

You know what? No.
That's it.
I'm not even going to continue this further.
I'm not making a "claim"
I'm telling you how I actually experience the very thing you claimed. The stupid "All girls like princesses" notion that is more often than not a result of the parents buying said toys for them early on without even so much as asking them what they want because the assume all girls like dolls.
The only way you, or this video can know for a fact which is biology and which is societal culture is if you have parents who are willing to give up their newborn baby boy and baby girl and subjugate them for the next 5-8 years to a totally controlled gender neutral environment and see what happens. In fact, they won't even have names. They will be chosen by the kid themselves.

I had to beg my parents before they finally caved in and bought me an Nintendo 64

 

[Thanatos2k]

Any time fat, ugly, or evil females are in a game, women complain that they're being mocked.

Any examples? Just, you know, because that kinda contradicts Jim's findings. Women cannot complain about ugly, fat or evil female chars if there have been virtually none. So, some examples please. And please don't come up with some oh-so-evil and at the same booby-butty sado-maso-fetish-dream female character. That doesn't meet criteria Jim (and me too BTW) is looking for. It is just a playmate goes nuts.

Males are appear in many many many many many more different roles than females. Not very often (most are shallow heroic 35-ish white unshaved dudes with short brown hair which is also annoying) but they do. That is a fact.

http://www.thegamersblog.com/fat-borderlands-2-character-has-facebook-in-an-uproar/

There's your example. Gearbox intentionally makes a fat character to inject variety and women ask "Why is she so fat? Can't you make her more normal?"

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Thing is Jim, if you look at women in products for women - whether it be make-up, hair dye products, magazines, and movies specifically targeted at women, made by women, they're all beautiful too. Fact of the matter is, women only want to see pretty women too.

Except for the women that don't. That's more the advertising industry's image of women, and how they want to shape them to consume their products. There are countless women who don't buy into the cosmetics or fashion industry's idea of how they should look.

 

[BQE]

Ladies and Gentleman, boys and girls of all ages!
I have found the answer that you seek!

Is she a female? YES
Is the protaganist or a playable character? YES
Is not conventionally attractive? YES
Is she human? YES

I'm sure you're waiting with bated breath but let me assure you this fox will fit all your criteria!
A woman who goes on a sociopathic rampage to achieve some peace and quiet and yes indeed, you play as this woman!
Let me introduce, a lady who probably needs plenty of introduction....

http://twistedmetal.wikia.com/wiki/Granny_Dread

Yes that's right. I say if Mr. Sterling can nominate a female monster from an archaic game, then Granny Dread should fit the bill perfectly then. [/spoiler]


I believe the ball is in your court.

10/10

Best comment of the year.
I literally had the best laugh I've had all year.

Good job sir/ma'am Good job

That's it folks. Sexism in the industry has been debunked.

Ahhh, such bliss.
*curtsy*

To know a keen eye exists among such ignobility is reassuring. One can only hope that others can see the wisdom in Granny Dread's honorable representation of women.

[sub]EDIT: Correction of my horrible BBcode[/sub]

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Calling someone cocksure is as much capable of being perceived as an insult as calling someone dense.

How so? "Cocksure" simply means "over-confident," while "dense" means stupid.

Yours was clearly an insult. Mine was just saying that I think you are over-confident in validity of your argument.

 

[wulf3n]

Why would you assume that?

It has been my observation that the majority of games fall into the power fantasy category usually from the male perspective.

We're talking about fiction - I think many writers want to explore worlds and scenarios and characters that are different to their own. Look how many people write Science Fiction or Fantasy - they aren't writing those novels to explore their own world, but to explore the unfamiliar.

In other industries perhaps, but we're talking about writing in games.

Heck, isn't that what role playing and a lot of video games are about? Playing in a world that you don't experience in your day-to-day life? Most fiction isn't about the author's crappy day at the office.

Hence the power fantasy.

So, why wouldn't a male writer be more interested in writing a female character or vice-versa?

I'm not saying a male writer wouldn't. Simply that I've observed male writers [in games] don't.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

Well, I have to agree that the 'attractive' thing can be a problem, but for me, T&A is a different thing. So for three and a half out of four, Reimu Hakurei:

Spoiler: Image.

While I've already conceded the 'attractive' point, she's clearly not T&A, and for that matter there's not even a midriff to be found in the entire (all-female) cast. As for personality, she's widely regarded as a jerk, usually resolving incidents for her own personal gain rather than any sense of altruism. The other protagonist, Marisa Kirisame, isn't much better in that regard, but certainly the two of them make an interesting case study on that third point about not having daddy issues or unquestionable moral high ground.

 

[Thanatos2k]

Well, I have to agree that the 'attractive' thing can be a problem, but for me, T&A is a different thing. So for three and a half out of four, Reimu Hakurei:

Spoiler: Image.

While I've already conceded the 'attractive' point, she's clearly not T&A, and for that matter there's not even a midriff to be found in the entire (all-female) cast. As for personality, she's widely regarded as a jerk, usually resolving incidents for her own personal gain rather than any sense of altruism. The other protagonist, Marisa Kirisame, isn't much better in that regard, but certainly the two of them make an interesting case study on that third point about not having daddy issues or unquestionable moral high ground.

Sadly, I think moe now falls under the "traditionally attractive" category in Japan, terrifyingly enough.

 

[Velocir_X]

So a fucking documentary has more say and validity over me- a woman, who was at some point a little girl living the stereotype of dolls and princesses because some scientist said "because biology?"

You know what? No.
That's it.
I'm not even going to continue this further.
I'm not making a "claim"
I'm telling you how I actually experience the very thing you claimed. The stupid "All girls like princesses" notion that is more often than not a result of the parents buying said toys for them early on without even so much as asking them what they want because the assume all girls like dolls.
The only way you, or this video can know for a fact which is biology and which is societal culture is if you have parents who are willing to give up their newborn baby boy and baby girl and subjugate them for the next 5-8 years to a totally controlled gender neutral environment and see what happens. In fact, they won't even have names. They will be chosen by the kid themselves.

I had to beg my parents before they finally caved in and bought me an Nintendo 64

Woah Woah Woah, calm down; no need to explode. But yes, generally presentations of a series of related cited facts (documentaries), peer reviewed scholarly articles, logical lines of argumentation, and the results of controlled experiments are considered closer to the "truth" (as much as that can exist) than one persons individual experience. There's a reason anecdotal evidence is considered a logical fallacy. Moreover you do not need to completely strip something of its environment to get meaningful results; something called regression analysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_analysis) exists. The results of numerous studies (Simon's is simply the most well known) are generally in consensus here, preference of toys at an early age: dolls and human-like things for girls and mechanical things for boys is most closely related to prenatal testosterone.

Now I understand you may have had a trying relationship with the norm. You are clearly genetically predisposed to something else, and I'm generally happy you found happiness somewhere else. But your experience does not discount the validity of the statistical baseline or its models.

And finally, why is the fact that you're a woman pertinent? Logic is logic, no matter who it comes from.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

Sadly, I think moe now falls under the "traditionally attractive" category in Japan, terrifyingly enough.

Point. I still think it's at least a step up from T&A, but she still counts as being 'attractive'. I already conceded that, though.

 

[Velocir_X]

Calling someone cocksure is as much capable of being perceived as an insult as calling someone dense.

How so? "Cocksure" simply means "over-confident," while "dense" means stupid.

Yours was clearly an insult. Mine was just saying that I think you are over-confident in validity of your argument.

From dictionary.com:
Cocksure: overconfident, arrogant, conceited

arrogant and conceited are clearly insults, and of a similar connotation to dense

Now I could give less than two shits about what people call me, but its inconsistent to complain about being called dense on the grounds that its an insult and then turn around and call someone cocksure in the same sentence.

 

[springheeljack]

I was just thinking today about the fact that rockstar has not made a game with a female lead yet
I wish they would it would be interesting playing as one

 

[Thanatos2k]

I was just thinking today about the fact that rockstar has not made a game with a female lead yet
I wish they would it would be interesting playing as one

Grand Theft Auto is a game where you play a criminal. The criminal gender ratio in real life is 10:1 male. It is not unrealistic for a game about criminals to have most of the characters be men.

 

[lord.jeff]

Well, I have to agree that the 'attractive' thing can be a problem, but for me, T&A is a different thing. So for three and a half out of four, Reimu Hakurei:

Spoiler: Image.

While I've already conceded the 'attractive' point, she's clearly not T&A, and for that matter there's not even a midriff to be found in the entire (all-female) cast. As for personality, she's widely regarded as a jerk, usually resolving incidents for her own personal gain rather than any sense of altruism. The other protagonist, Marisa Kirisame, isn't much better in that regard, but certainly the two of them make an interesting case study on that third point about not having daddy issues or unquestionable moral high ground.

Sadly, I think moe now falls under the "traditionally attractive" category in Japan, terrifyingly enough.

How is it sad that is considered attractive? Unless you think traditionally attractive means sexualized.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

I was just thinking today about the fact that rockstar has not made a game with a female lead yet
I wish they would it would be interesting playing as one

They have. 'z called Oni. You played a female cop in a futuristic world. It wasn't open world, or anything, though. Pretty lianear beat-em-up.
Bungie had a hand in it, too, but my Oni avatar on my R* social says R* owns the property.

But Oni was like... a PS2 release game. It's definitely been long enough for it to be overlooked.

 

[Dragonbums]

I was just thinking today about the fact that rockstar has not made a game with a female lead yet
I wish they would it would be interesting playing as one

Grand Theft Auto is a game where you play a criminal. The criminal gender ratio in real life is 10:1 male. It is not unrealistic for a game about criminals to have most of the characters be men.

Well keep in mind he's not talking about GTA in general.

They have made...a few new IP's in the past. The only thing that comes up right now is Bully.
So it's entirely possible for them to make a new IP.

I mean, they made 1 billion dollars afterall.

 

[cidbahamut]

It might be time for a new soap box. This one is starting to show signs of wear and tear.

 

[Dragonbums]

So a fucking documentary has more say and validity over me- a woman, who was at some point a little girl living the stereotype of dolls and princesses because some scientist said "because biology?"

You know what? No.
That's it.
I'm not even going to continue this further.
I'm not making a "claim"
I'm telling you how I actually experience the very thing you claimed. The stupid "All girls like princesses" notion that is more often than not a result of the parents buying said toys for them early on without even so much as asking them what they want because the assume all girls like dolls.
The only way you, or this video can know for a fact which is biology and which is societal culture is if you have parents who are willing to give up their newborn baby boy and baby girl and subjugate them for the next 5-8 years to a totally controlled gender neutral environment and see what happens. In fact, they won't even have names. They will be chosen by the kid themselves.

I had to beg my parents before they finally caved in and bought me an Nintendo 64

Woah Woah Woah, calm down; no need to explode. But yes, generally presentations of a series of related cited facts (documentaries), peer reviewed scholarly articles, logical lines of argumentation, and the results of controlled experiments are considered closer to the "truth" (as much as that can exist) than one persons individual experience. There's a reason anecdotal evidence is considered a logical fallacy. Moreover you do not need to completely strip something of its environment to get meaningful results; something called regression analysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_analysis) exists. The results of numerous studies (Simon's is simply the most well known) are generally in consensus here, preference of toys at an early age: dolls and human-like things for girls and mechanical things for boys is most closely related to prenatal testosterone.

Now I understand you may have had a trying relationship with the norm. You are clearly genetically predisposed to something else, and I'm generally happy you found happiness somewhere else. But your experience does not discount the validity of the statistical baseline or its models.

And finally, why is the fact that you're a woman pertinent? Logic is logic, no matter who it comes from.

It matters that I'm a woman because at one point I was a girl. A literal person that is the object of the documantery and survey claims.
That's like saying poor Africans don't really know what they are suffering economically even though they tell you to your face what it is because some documentary by a white guy said something else.