Jimquisition: Videogames Are Not Movies, Get Over It

[monkeysthatdrnk]

Jim

Slow down. I'm from the UK and I struggled to understand what the hell you were saying for half of that.

Suck in some air, and calm down.

You seemed very nervous and it looked as that you lost control a bit. Your points, whilst valid, were completely lost in the maelstrom of nervous hand gestures and repetitive ranting.

Nice glasses though.

 

[A Gray Phantom]

This needed to be said. I've been trying to tell my friends this for years.

I like this guy, despite how douchey he is.

 

[Archemetis]

Wow, 5 seconds in and the guy seemingly insults me for a notion on video games I hadn't even considered let alone believed followed by him ranting nonsensically while using fuck between every other word like that's all we come to site to listen to... Because I'll be honest, every other word I either didn't listen to or couldn't hear when the mic was fumbled away from his prickish mouth.

Again, I find myself feeling kind of insulted by the things the Escapist seem to think I'll watch...

 

[johnnnny guitar]

meh just meh

 

[Trogdor1138]

let me summarize:

- swearing for the sake swearing, because it's so cool for all the 12 year olds and it totally doesn't make you look like a complete fool and every videogame persona needs to have a stupid pseudonym like being angry, confused and whatnot

- penis drawings with MS paint and a lot of dick jokes (...)
- says in 5 minutes what could be said in 30 seconds
- repeats himself
- made many unedited mistakes, "saying Hideo Kojima is the Steven Spielberg of films (?)"
- beyond poor production values and he doesn't even try to make an effort
- awful attitude, blames audience and talks down to them
- overanalyzing the obvious

these comments from escapist say it best

1.Honestly I don't think they guy made a point, he just complained for five minutes that games don't fit a black and white definition where referencing another form of media is inappropriate. Games are influenced by film in the same way that lyricists for bands are influenced by authors. If referencing this fact contextualizes an argument, be my guest, don't make outlandish statements like games shouldn't try be movies because they are not movies. Well duh, that doesn't stop games developers drawing influence from cinema, I bet a lot of plots are influenced by authors as well, many movies at the moment are obviously influenced by comics. Get off your high horse.

2. A whole lot of a gas bagging about a relevant intertextual reference for what was a very intertextual game. Basically the guy said that music shouldn't make videos as that isn't music when it can add enjoyment to the piece when done well. I think by shoehorning games as just games you create just as big a problem as if you were to make a filmic game, or a musically driven game or a game in a surrealist art style. I'm sorry Jim but all media is a product of other media whether it likes it or not, it's all part of the human experience and it all seeks to capitalize for good or bad or what stimulates a human being. If a cut scene can excite someone by using cinematic techniques, if a game wants to include a short film to further the plot, go ahead as ultimately the game will be better for it.


3. The real problem with the show is that this fella has clearly forgotten that he's supposed to entertain. A blind rant shot against a boring dead wall by a grumpy semi-literate mouth with arms is not entertainment

there are plenty of non-story driven games for him ...

It's wrong because he refuses to acknowledge games that break free from his idea of a 'problem'

And he after does that, he gives out all these plans on how to improve things...when almost all of the time, he's simply not looking hard enough at what's already being done. He generalizes that 'it's a problem with these popular games, so it's a problem with the entire video game industry!' when it just isn't. (this is what almost every The Escapist contributor does by the way)



by the way, in his video he criticized an Adventure game (Heavy Rain) for being Story driven...


An Open Letter to Destructoid on Jim Sterling?s Misogyny [http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4298]

he's also a regular guest on gamersareembarrassing [http://gamersareembarrassing.wordpress.com/]

After seeing that open letter, I have far, far less respect for this dumb shit. Just wanted to add my two cents. I agree with you on your points.

 

[mega48man]

for a douchebag who i'm probably not going to enjoy in the future, you make an extremely valid point supported by true unbiased facts and sprinkled with british humour. however, Metal gear solid 4: guns of the patriot had an opening cut scene that lasted an hour and a half, that's the minimum runtime for a feature length movie.

it took me some getting used to like this new jimquisition thing, the first third just kind of pissed me of and i gradually began to like it, especially the part with the reference to "the room", which was the worst movie of all time. i also found his lack of preparation and execution pretty dull. come on, standing in front of a white wall with shitty lighting and a shitty camera? and fumbling for a box instead of having it prepared or taking multiple shots? he really is a douchebag to do this all in one run. however, that intro of him doing hilarious random humiliating shit was some saving grace and compensates for the douche attitude, i'm really looking forward to seeing him do crazy silly things like that.

 

[coakroach]

Thank god Captain Obvious saved us all by beating up that dead horse

 

[Zay-el]

let me summarize:

- swearing for the sake swearing, because it's so cool for all the 12 year olds and it totally doesn't make you look like a complete fool and every videogame persona needs to have a stupid pseudonym like being angry, confused and whatnot

- penis drawings with MS paint and a lot of dick jokes (...)
- says in 5 minutes what could be said in 30 seconds
- repeats himself
- made many unedited mistakes, "saying Hideo Kojima is the Steven Spielberg of films (?)"
- beyond poor production values and he doesn't even try to make an effort
- awful attitude, blames audience and talks down to them
- overanalyzing the obvious

these comments from escapist say it best

1.Honestly I don't think they guy made a point, he just complained for five minutes that games don't fit a black and white definition where referencing another form of media is inappropriate. Games are influenced by film in the same way that lyricists for bands are influenced by authors. If referencing this fact contextualizes an argument, be my guest, don't make outlandish statements like games shouldn't try be movies because they are not movies. Well duh, that doesn't stop games developers drawing influence from cinema, I bet a lot of plots are influenced by authors as well, many movies at the moment are obviously influenced by comics. Get off your high horse.

2. A whole lot of a gas bagging about a relevant intertextual reference for what was a very intertextual game. Basically the guy said that music shouldn't make videos as that isn't music when it can add enjoyment to the piece when done well. I think by shoehorning games as just games you create just as big a problem as if you were to make a filmic game, or a musically driven game or a game in a surrealist art style. I'm sorry Jim but all media is a product of other media whether it likes it or not, it's all part of the human experience and it all seeks to capitalize for good or bad or what stimulates a human being. If a cut scene can excite someone by using cinematic techniques, if a game wants to include a short film to further the plot, go ahead as ultimately the game will be better for it.


3. The real problem with the show is that this fella has clearly forgotten that he's supposed to entertain. A blind rant shot against a boring dead wall by a grumpy semi-literate mouth with arms is not entertainment

there are plenty of non-story driven games for him ...

It's wrong because he refuses to acknowledge games that break free from his idea of a 'problem'

And he after does that, he gives out all these plans on how to improve things...when almost all of the time, he's simply not looking hard enough at what's already being done. He generalizes that 'it's a problem with these popular games, so it's a problem with the entire video game industry!' when it just isn't. (this is what almost every The Escapist contributor does by the way)



by the way, in his video he criticized an Adventure game (Heavy Rain) for being Story driven...


An Open Letter to Destructoid on Jim Sterling?s Misogyny [http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=4298]

he's also a regular guest on gamersareembarrassing [http://gamersareembarrassing.wordpress.com/]

Quoted for truth. I salute you.

 

[nipsen]

..here's a simple solution for you, Jim. Next time you get a shoebox with bling from a video-game publisher - just collect the producer-intro and the talking points - and then mail the rest of the box to me. I'll be happy to write an actual review of the game. And then you can flap your gums about the industry in general as usual - while I enjoy and write about the actual game. From the narrative presentation and the methods that are used. To the technical details and how they are integrated into the game-flow.

Clearly you have no need for the actual disc to write a review anyway. So PM me, and I'll send you my address.

 

[titaniumChampion]

After reading some of the feedback on this forum, I fully expected to loathe this new series. But after watching this episode he makes a lot of sense. After 3 minutes & 40sec of the rant he arrives at his true intent, which is the exact opposite of what Extra Credits is always discussing. Trying to make the gaming industry more like film or trying to make people see it as an art form is a mistake.

Not everything in the world needs to have artistic intent. Why do games need to be qualified for a public that doesn't truly care about the industry? I want to see game developer's thrive and test the boundaries of our perceptions. Instead of realism, we need to explore possibilities beyond our own experiences. Linking film to games we're likely to see the same thing that makes hollywood dull today -- non-stop reboots. Do we really want to merge ourselves with an industry that continues to ruin classics with low caliber actors?

Lastly, Gaming is strong enough to stand on its own merits. It doesn't need to be compared to anything else. Film has classics like Godfather, Gone With The Wind, and Citizen Kane. Games have Metroid, Mario, Metal Gear Solid. Film buffs would tell you that you don't know cinema until you've seen the classics, and the same can be said about gaming. There are many fools that will talk about your medium without a clue, like people will say that The Dark Knight was the greatest movie ever. These people should be dismissed as ignorant, and we should remember we don't make games for hollywood or the general public, we make them for the gamers.

'Nuff Said.

 

[Deadlyveggie]

Film too had to go through this during it's birth. Seen as simply a spectacle it had to survive the "it's not literature" bullshit for years.

Bourgeois ideals of a superior traditional cannon plagued film for years, and will continue to nibble as Gaming's heels. But hey, these people eventually die

 

[russman588]

I like Jim Sterling's writing, so I want to see this improve.

Jim:

Spend more time on production value. Keep your cutaways focused on the topic. Splicing footage from more than one game, footage of yourself and random images just gets excessive. Most of the descriptions of stuff could have been done with you talking while showing footage of either Heavy Rain or MGS4. The important bits could have you talking to the camera.

Also, watch the finished product before you put it up, edit out stammering and parts that have you misspeaking. If you don't have time to put together a polished video worthy of an Escapist video slot, then it can just go up on YouTube.

Here's hoping the next one is a lot better...

 

[Steady Drain]

Will the escapist have the balls to listen to its community and axe this dross?

 

[abowit_ryan2]

makes me think of what movie bob does but less cohesive and more opinionated (if that were possible)

Saying fuck that often makes the word lose all meaning.

I still intend to watch next week's episode. I didn't think the first episode of Extra Credits was that good but now i enjoy it as much as any of the site's features.

He just doesn't SEEM as "refined" as The Escapist other opinion shows. I am including ZP on that list mind you.

 

[Raistlinhawke]

Please Escapist, do not allow this entertainer further tenure at this site.

In all honesty, its difficult to watch this video beyond two minutes. His style is abrasive and confrontational without having anything resembling a coherent argument to bring to the table. His vocabulary is consistent swearing beyond the point of humor or reasonableness, and his logic is simply repetitive.

His production values are at the bottom of the barrel, and he has only the barest hint of a personality beyond insipid hand gestures. Worse still, he has this annoying - and at times discomforting - habit of inflicting immature artwork that only detracts from his vapid points and furthers his un-likability.

More than just a troll king and flame bait, this content-maker will seriously detract from the mature and elevated image The Escapist has gained over the years. Especially with new acquisitions like "Extra Credits", there is a higher reputation to uphold here that Jimquisition will simply get in the way of.

 

[MattAn24]

Please Escapist, do not allow this entertainer further tenure at this site.

In all honesty, its difficult to watch this video beyond two minutes. His style is abrasive and confrontational without having anything resembling a coherent argument to bring to the table. His vocabulary is consistent swearing beyond the point of humor or reasonableness, and his logic is simply repetitive.

His production values are at the bottom of the barrel, and he has only the barest hint of a personality beyond insipid hand gestures. Worse still, he has this annoying - and at times discomforting - habit of inflicting immature artwork that only detracts from his vapid points and furthers his un-likability.

More than just a troll king and flame bait, this content-maker will seriously detract from the mature and elevated image The Escapist has gained over the years. Especially with new acquisitions like "Extra Credits", there is a higher reputation to uphold here that Jimquisition will simply get in the way of.

I.. Can't put it any better than you just did.

By putting this "Jimquisition" on The Escapist, after all the legitimately intelligent, thoughtful discussion/debate that Zero Punctuation/Extra Punctuation, Extra Consideration, Extra Credits and the like have brought in, adding THIS tripe to the line-up completely ruins all of that intellect.

It's quite obvious Jim has absolutely no care in the world for video games being known as a good thing. Hell, I've stated this before, my step-father doesn't play video games, he doesn't understand (or care) why the hell they exist, but he respects that both my mother and I enjoy playing them. It's bad enough that the mainstream media uses video games as a scapegoat when ANYTHING bad happens in the world. "Billy killed Timmy in the playground at school!" "IT'S THOSE VIDJA GAMES AGAIN, I TELLS YA~!"

Movies have their own problems with ratings and content involved. I know Australia's censorship/ratings system is in dire need of a revamp. But there ARE games which can absolutely be classified as art. Immensely qualified artists and designers work for game companies to create masterpieces of gaming.

I should also know because I've done extensive research on an upcoming course I plan to do at QANTM College (globally recognized private college/institution) involving Games Design. A lot of the course has much to do with drawing and 3D modelling/animation, going into major detail.

Yes, games are not movies and movies are not games. That's FUCKING OBVIOUS. Books are not Music, either. Y'know why? Because one is "Books", the other is "Music". One is audio and one is visual. Games are practically interactive books (they both have stories), with some allowing you to choose your own path and others telling an in-depth story.

Personally, I prefer in-depth stories like Final Fantasy, etc because I get to know a group of characters interacting with the issues they have to deal with. In most "choose your own adventure", you end up missing large chunks of content because you chose "this path" instead of "that path". It's those things that REALLY infuriate me when playing/enjoying a game.

Example; Final Fantasy IV/Final Fantasy VII VS Mass Effect/Fallout

Spoiler

In FFIV, your party members throughout the game drop like flies/get replaced often because it's relevant to the story progression or something better is around the corner. FFVII kinda featured this with the whole OMG AERIS/TH DIES! Yes, you lose a character you spent most of the game journeying with, but eventually ends up being a benefit (the Holy Materia, etc)..

In Mass Effect/Fallout, anything you do changes anything and everything. You could end up killing off characters or blocking certain content/access to stuff because you chose Option B instead of Option A or C. This DRASTICALLY alters the story and in turn, you miss out on doing certain quests or interacting with particular people. You may end up killing (just for kicks, lulz) a random NPC which turns out being a VERY SUPER IMPORTANT CHARACTER in the future, be it as a quest-giver or party member.

Eh, I've rambled long enough, but somewhere in here clearly shows that yes, games not movies, movies not games, but they're still very deep narrative. Aside my rather negative view of Mass Effect/Fallout, I DO enjoy some of the content they have. One of these is how much quality is involved in the in-depth plot and direction changes. One could say you're "playing a game with the quality/story of a movie". But eh, what the fuck do I know?

 

[MattAn24]

Actually, to give Mr. Sterling a little credit.. At least The Escapist hasn't given a show to THIS guy.

THEN the site would implode with immense stupidity.

 

[Lenin211]

This seems like a pretty pointless show. It only points out things we already know and repeats them over and over. It did not seem to me like he was making any valid points ex. "Hollywood quality implies that games are not as good as movies." seems like a biased and untrue opinion. I will watch the next one but if the show does not improve, I will stop watching it.

 

[SomethingUnrelated]

One thing: "gaming's biggest douchebag" - Yup. The style is an utter mess, and it clouded over the handful of fair points that were made.