Jimquisition: When Piracy Becomes Theft

[Dusk17]

I dont understand how you can say piracy is not theft. It is the use of a product or service without paying for it. It doesnt matter why you pirate games it is still theft. Even those who defend it by saying they will pay later it doesnt change the fact that you stole a product, it doesnt work on credit like that.

 

[Something Amyss]

No, it's still not theft. Calling people thieves because you don't like what they're doing is exactly the problem you just shifted away from.

As for people who pirate charity bundles, can't be just call them scum?

 

[Something Amyss]

I dont understand how you can say piracy is not theft. It is the use of a product or service without paying for it.

Which isn't theft.

didn't you just answer your own question with your definition?

 

[Epona]

I dont understand how you can say piracy is not theft. It is the use of a product or service without paying for it. It doesnt matter why you pirate games it is still theft. Even those who defend it by saying they will pay later it doesnt change the fact that you stole a product, it doesnt work on credit like that.

If I steal your bike, then you lose a bike. That's theft.
If you copy one of your games, you lose nothing. See the difference?

 

[Brian Hendershot]

I think people are missing the point of this video. You should pay something to humble indie devs at the very least because they respect you. They take out all the DRM, give the proceeds to charity and in the process are losing money. At the very least you are giving money to charity and getting some sweet games in the process.

And let's get off the topic of if it is theft or piracy. That's missing the point. Whatever you are doing, in the case of the humble indie devs, is just wrong.

Plus...it's only like a penny..come on...

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

I don't know why you are spending energy thinking about the people who copy indie games. I have a better idea than demonizing them. Come to grips with the fact that some people are just lame, and a small percentage of the population derives satisfaction from they feeling of superiority they get by screwing others over in a very minor and inconsequential way. Your life would be better if you just ignore them. They aren't going away, there is no need to bother expending thoughts on those people.

The fact that the games are "pay what you want" conclusively proves that people don't pirate games to save money. All but the crappiest games out there will give you at least 10 hours of gameplay and even at $60 + tax that comes out to much cheaper/hour than almost any other form of entertainment. So piracy is almost never about money and people can stop that tired old "you are just cheap" argument.

The success of Steam proves that even if the games are available for free people are still willing to pay. And Gamecopyworld and Piratebay make me feel secure buying games on Steam because I know that nobody can take away the games I bought for any reason.

 

[MonkeyPunch]

Sorry dude, but there's no "middle ground" and it's still not "theft"... you can't apply the concept of "theft" to intellectual goods, it may be cockmongery or dickery, douchebaggery or something like that and I always make sure to pay at least 5? even if I already own most games, but it's still not theft.

I know I will regret asking, but can't it be seen as theft?

So lets say you pirate the indy game Aquaria.

That game costs 20 Euro.
You have the game in your possession because you downloaded via a torrent instead of the official site.
So 1 copy on your HD, but no money in Bit Blot's account.
For every copy of Aquaria on someone's HD Bit Blot should have the equivalent value on their bank account. 20 copies sold should equate to 20 times the games value on Bit Blot's account.
(edit- also just thought about from the aspect of: if you are in possession of something you didn't legally acquire, surely you must have stolen it?)

They are missing 20 Euro because in theory if you have Aquaria on your HD Bit Blot should be up 20 Euro. But they aren't - they've been robbed of that payment.

 

[Saltychipmunk]

scum carries no weight. You see words are only as hurtful as the meaning they convey.
scum just doesn't carry that kind of weight.

theft on the other hand carries moral weight. Everything society teaches us says theft it inherently wrong. Where as scum... trash.. are just words meant to be demeaning .

and the kind of pirate jim is talking about is just that kind of person , a thief, someone or something that is inherently in the wrong on a social and moral stand point.


It is like megaupload. People paint it as a martyr and the evil fbi and usa as the evil. But megaupload encouraged piracy, it profited from piracy , it was not one of the harmless leechers , it was the distributor . Put it another way , it wasn't the crack addict... it was the crack dealer.

and the same is true about these people who crack and distribute indi games. they are the source of the issue.

 

[Mojo]

Also, would buying a legal copy of a game that comes with a shitty on-line service that spies on you & you MUST have & then cracking it for it to work without said service be justified?

Legal? No, as you are modifying the games content (the .exe) withouth the producers permission.
Justified? Yes. They have the money you have the game. How can producers expect every customer to make accounts for 2 different websites (giving away their email and having 2 extra passwords to remember) just so they can save the games progress? But only if you are online all the time and didnt install the game on 3 other computers yet.
But thats just my oppinion.

 

[Naeras]

Sorry No, Indie devs are not special and copyright infringement doesn't become theft when it involves an Indie developer.

In fact, I place a lower value on Indie games because most are ugly, simplistic and repetitive. I don't pirate them though, I watch them on YouTube and decide to skip them. I guess this show was required though, given the anti-piracy stance of the escapist.

The point here is that indie games a) generally don't cost anything at all and b) often times the money doesn't go to the official publisher money pile, but to the developer. Also they don't screw me over by making me install spyware on my computer in order to let me play the game, unlike said publishers. That's why it's infuriating to see how cheap people are. It's like pirating an ice cream sandwich, if that had been possible.

It doesn't really change the argument for whether or not it's "copyright infringement" or "theft", indeed. But if I got told one guy pirated Bastion and another guy pirated a Ubisoft title, I know which of them I'd call out as the bigger douchebag.

 

[Azuaron]

I liked the original intro myself...

Yeah, same here.

I do agree with this though, fuck the big companies, but the indis shouldnt have to deal with that, I may never play it but I am gona go buy that serious sam game just because it had an awesome commercial and I respect the dev.

Die in a fire. I don't care WHO puts out the whatever, they need money to make the games/movies/books/whatever you want, and you're a pedophile burglar if you don't give it to them simply because they're "big". If they're DRMing the Hell out of it or not making it available conveniently, then we get into a gray area, but if they're putting out a DRM-free, non-region locked, easily available product, you better (wo-)man up and pay the company.

If an indie developer DRMed the Hell out of a game and made it difficult to buy/play (e.g., you MUST have an always on internet connection for this single-player game), then pirating that game is just as acceptable as pirating one of EA's. Conversely, if a major publisher releases a game without DRM and no hassles, pirating that game is just as despicable as pirating World of Goo.

The size of the company is irrelevant. Their stance is everything. We must reward companies, big and small, for being awesome and punish them, big and small, for being dicks.

That being said, while I certainly think there's various shades of gray involved when it comes to piracy, the only morally blemish-free method is to pay for your media. If you don't approve of a company's practices, don't buy their stuff. Don't pirate it, but don't buy it, either. If you want to play a game (or watch a movie or read a book), you are morally and ethically obligated to pay for it. This isn't food; you don't "need" to play the latest whatever.

The only time it's completely morally acceptable to pirate a game is if you've already paid for it and you're using the pirated version for convenience or if the company has made it literally impossible for you to give them your money (HBO, I'm looking at you [http://www.virtualshackles.com/207]).

 

[oZode]

Sorry No, Indie devs are not special and copyright infringement doesn't become theft when it involves an Indie developer.

In fact, I place a lower value on Indie games because most are ugly, simplistic and repetitive. I don't pirate them though, I watch them on YouTube and decide to skip them. I guess this show was required though, given the anti-piracy stance of the escapist.

BTW, when I hear people talk about castrating and torturing people (I guess only males are pirates), I assume they are not to be taken seriously.

I swear he said female genitalia too. This so applies not just to indie games. For example what about that new rayman game which doesn't have that strict DRM that most ubisoft games have?

 

[Epona]

I think people are missing the point of this video. You should pay something to humble indie devs at the very least because they respect you. They take out all the DRM, give the proceeds to charity and in the process are losing money. At the very least you are giving money to charity and getting some sweet games in the process.

And let's get off the topic of if it is theft or piracy. That's missing the point. Whatever you are doing, in the case of the humble indie devs, is just wrong.

Plus...it's only like a penny..come on...

Guilt trips don't work with text, you need TONE to successfully apply a guilt trip.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

If I steal your bike, then you lose a bike. That's theft.
If you copy one of your games, you lose nothing. See the difference?

No, Jim was saying still an indie game is bad....stealing a company game is fine. Piracy fucks every game maker regardless of what the charge is or who makes it. So your analogy fails, Jim is talking about taking a game with out paying and some how because they are independent they deserve less piracy than a normal company. Im thinking its more to do with poor and the rich. A big company has loads of cash so pirate them, an independent has less money so pay them for the game. When will people learn that pirates want things for free regardless what it costs or who makes the game.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

If I steal your bike, then you lose a bike. That's theft.
If you copy one of your games, you lose nothing. See the difference?

Erm that bike wasnt for sale so its theft. A game is for sale, legally. So what is that? Also a difference between a friend letting another friend copy a game and the internet to download for free. Big different.

Ok, you make a picture to sell. Ten people walk in, photocopy it and walk out. Is that theft, after all you still got the original copy. Just admit you dont want to pay for stuff.

 

[j0frenzy]

I would vote for Jim Sterling, but he is not eligible since he wasn't born in the US (I believe). Though that was almost inspiring me to quickly fill out my form for an absentee ballot for my state's upcoming primary.

 

[Callate]

1. Hey, don't look at me- I bought World of Goo. (And it was worth every penny. Seriously. Pick it up if you haven't yet. The soundtrack alone is worth what they're asking.)

2. Presumably Jim was born in the UK, so he can't be legally elected president. If we're talking more of an "armed-insurrection-dictator-for-life" kind of thing, well, let me know.

3. Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the second episode talking about piracy is the episode where the jimquisition stopped stealing borrowing video from Fallout...?

 

[Brian Hendershot]

I think people are missing the point of this video. You should pay something to humble indie devs at the very least because they respect you. They take out all the DRM, give the proceeds to charity and in the process are losing money. At the very least you are giving money to charity and getting some sweet games in the process.

And let's get off the topic of if it is theft or piracy. That's missing the point. Whatever you are doing, in the case of the humble indie devs, is just wrong.

Plus...it's only like a penny..come on...

Guilt trips don't work with text, you need TONE to successfully apply a guilt trip.

Perhaps you are right. Maybe I should try the Elcor approach.

Angry Tone. I think people are missing the point of this video. Passionately, you should pay something to humble indie devs at the very least because they respect you. They take out all the DRM, give the proceeds to charity and in the process are losing money. At the very least you are giving money to charity and getting some sweet games in the process.

And let's get off the topic of if it is theft or piracy. That's missing the point. Whatever you are doing, in the case of the humble indie devs, is just wrong.

Exasperated, Plus...it's only like a penny..come on...

 

[ActionDan]

Totally agree with ya Jim, it's totally shameful and just plain wrong.

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

This video is not a serious "is piracy theft?" discussion. Those believing so may have slightly veered away from the intended point I was making and may have not quite gotten the sardonic part of it.