Jimquisition: When The Starscreams Kill Used Games

[gamegod25]

Unfortunately it will be us that they blame for not buying 5 million copies of Generic Military Shooter X. It's not their fault that they spend more than they could possibly hope to make back, it's not their fault that they keep pumping out the same shit year after year, it's not their fault that they use DRM and online passes. No, it's our fault and we should feel sorry for them and give them our money like good little sheep.

There is a reason why acceptance is the first step to recovery, because when someone has a self-destructive habit they tend to blame everyone but themselves till the bitter end. Hopefully it won't be too late by then.

 

[Holythirteen]

It's worth noting that Kuchera is getting raked over the coals on Penny Arcade's own site by 99% of the comments on that editorial as we speak.

Deservedly so, frankly. Microsoft suddenly becoming Valve would take more than some artificial market manipulation; it would take a massive change in philosophy in a company that I'm getting an increasing sense is tearing itself apart inside and out.

Yep, one of those was me. I didn't do nearly as awesome a job as Jim, obviously, but I asked the same question; Why in the hell would publisher's charge less just because they have more control over the market? His exact words were "Once that secondary market is removed you can suddenly profit from every copy of your game sold, and as profit margins rise it's possible we'll see prices drop." Oh sure Ben, we'll just lick Microsoft's boots in the meantime and I'm sure they'll take pity on us and possibly charge us 5 dollars less for digital downloads. Tycho linked said article on the main page but somehow managed to avoid saying anything directly about it, but he basically said that the Xbone model is similar to the steam model minus the possibility of digital trade-ins. I love how he linked the article so that he could say absolutely nothing about it.

I swore I would never say this, but Thank God for you Jim, for still having the balls to express your opinions.

 

[tardcore]

One thing that really jumped out at me was the bit about how much (or little) brick and mortar stores are making off new game sales.


It really sounds like the exact same bullshit that movie theaters have been going through for the past three decades.
The film industry went apeshit and started pumping more and more money into movie budgets and advertising. Which meant to even make their money back they had to start charging the theaters more for the rights to show the studio's films, which raised ticket prices outrageously and even then the movie houses themselves were still only making a pittance per ticket.

So the theaters made next to nothing off ticket sales so to turn a profit and stay in business had to gouge their customers with insane concession stand prices. Which in the end didn't work due to people getting sick of the outrageous prices, and alternative venues for viewing films (IE rentals and home viewing) opening up, many movie houses slid into decline or went tits up completely. Which set the stage for the rise (and in some cases fall) of giant corporate multiplexes which drove most of the mom and pop theaters out of business forever. And the real pisser here is that most of these multiplex companies were tied at least indirectly back to the giant film studios who fucked things up in the first place. The continuous growing greed of these studios completely gnawed the very heart out of the industry infrastructure that helped them to become wealthy in the first place. Leaving nothing for anyone but themselves.

Is this scenario starting to sound chillingly familiar to anyone else?

 

[penthesilea180]

The not needing to comb your hair is the best thing about hats in general, but the best thing about bowler hats is using them as throwing weapons.

 

[luckshot]

yeah, it's looking more like they don't want me to buy their consoles or any of the games.

well console makers it was a fun ride but i guess this gen is my stop, pc only for me now

 

[MrHide-Patten]

I actually never buy used games at all, but I love having my consoles games in physical form and actually owned by me. Steam is acceptable on PC, same system on a console = GTFO. Console is supposed to be a dedicated gaming machine. No drm and activation shit.
Also, xbone will be region locked. And my favorite games from recent years (PS3, Vita) were ALL imported. And never came out in the west.

That'll be real dampener for me if Sony makes the PS4 region locked and leaves me unable to play UK games on my Australian machine. Australian prices are bullshit, I'd rather order them from OsGameshop and wait two weeks after release for my game to be delivered.

 

[Sneezeguard]

Yup, the publisher will never reduce the price of games if they feel the market is used to a certain price and will pay it. How many threads/people have there been complaining about the price of games in Austraila? I think they pay in Austraila twice what we pay in England for games.

We generally do, but it's a little more complicated than that, and you're quite right that a lot of it just has to do with setting games at prices that they know they can get away with. Speaking broadly, everything in Australia is more expensive. Money basically is just not worth as much within our own country, so having to pay so much more for games is something that they kind of got away with here for a very long time. On a more positive note, game prices tend to drop very rapidly here, so, unless a game is really successful or selling really well, it will probably drop down to a decent price within a few weeks of its release, or a few months if you're patient.

Additionally, I've noticed game's starting prices are generally lower than they used to be anyway. So, instead of games coming out on shelves at $120, they start at $100. It's still bullshit that they're that high, but it does seem to be improving.

But your money is worth roughly the same as the us dollar

1pound = 1.51 US dollar
1pound = 1.57 AUS dollar

But you pay 100$ and America pays 60$

And while things in Austraila are generally more expensive the difference really shouldn't be that great.

Also your population is highly urbanised 89% live in urban areas more than 75% of population on the coast.

Most consumer electronic products are manufactured in places like China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, or Japan. To send containers from any of those places to Australia takes about 13 days compared to 25 days to the UK or the US.

Distrubution should be easier and less expensive, your games in fact should be probably cheaper that over here. :S

And don't you have some deciated businesses trying sell games at a fairer price? I swear I've heard some in another thread.

It really doesn't make sense to me why your games are so high besides greed.

 

[daxterx2005]

Bobby Kotick is a piece of crap, he out right said he'd raise the price on SIXTY DOLLAR GAMES?
Is he freaking high?

 

[CyberMachinist]

The EC guys talked about a really good idea for a model that I think would work brilliantly. You rent a game for a few days, and, if you like it, all the money you spent on renting that game so far goes to your purchase of a full game, meaning there is no risk at all to the consumer if they decide to rent a game for a while in order to try it. If I put $5 towards trying a game out, I now have to pay $5 less if I decide to buy the game at full price. Everyone gets their money's worth. Everyone's a winner.

You know that sounds like a good model, which i support, of course there is still the issue of people who use it as a template to make illegal copies to distribute themselves. I know this doesn't encompass everyone and I'm pretty sure some at least have the decency (or lack of knowledge) to not do this, but I'm sure we all know there are people out there who(unfortunately) pirate just because they feel like it, like self-entitled kings, you know who I'm talking about.

This model should be considered by "Rational" businessmen in this market (Can anyone name at least one? or are they all dead) but somehow this issue might frighten them off from this idea, I'm not sure if this is a big issue but if it's small then someone with some sense should find that little issue negligible, hopefully.

I would love to try this model out! and have some of my own idea's to add to it.



OT: As for when the industry runs out of dragons. Will we even be alive when this happens? Businessmen like these people always tend to take any excuse, no matter how trivial it is, and make it seem like a legitimate cause, so their reasons might as well be numbered with a big "K" at the end! And who's to say that they won't stay in denial for when that day of self-realization dawns on them? I'll agree with Jim on the many points he made in this video but consider this. The publishers aren't the so-called knights in armor slaying the dragons that threaten them, They are the Dragons! Well technically the dragon-spawners, they created these problems themselves, I think that was what Jim was implying.... I think?

 

[speight88]

This episode has really made me think about whether i'll buy any new games at all really.

I mean, why get screwed over by a new game that has 8-10 hours of gameplay when i have old copies of 10 year old games i love, cherish, still play and enjoy. I still love the odd game of Transport Tycoon, and i've got some oldies from GOG that i play regularly.

I just get the feeling of why should i support most of the current industry (i do still occasionally chance my arm with some indie games), when i have countless hours of free time that can be taken up with old games i love.

 

[badgersprite]

The EC guys talked about a really good idea for a model that I think would work brilliantly. You rent a game for a few days, and, if you like it, all the money you spent on renting that game so far goes to your purchase of a full game, meaning there is no risk at all to the consumer if they decide to rent a game for a while in order to try it. If I put $5 towards trying a game out, I now have to pay $5 less if I decide to buy the game at full price. Everyone gets their money's worth. Everyone's a winner.

You know that sounds like a good model, which i support, of course there is still the issue of people who use it as a template to make illegal copies to distribute themselves. I know this doesn't encompass everyone and I'm pretty sure some at least have the decency (or lack of knowledge) to not do this, but I'm sure we all know there are people out there who(unfortunately) pirate just because they feel like it, like self-entitled kings, you know who I'm talking about.

This model should be considered by "Rational" businessmen in this market (Can anyone name at least one? or are they all dead) but somehow this issue might frighten them off from this idea, I'm not sure if this is a big issue but if it's small then someone with some sense should find that little issue negligible, hopefully.

I would love to try this model out! and have some of my own idea's to add to it.



OT: As for when the industry runs out of dragons. Will we even be alive when this happens? Businessmen like these people always tend to take any excuse, no matter how trivial it is, and make it seem like a legitimate cause, so their reasons might as well be numbered with a big "K" at the end! And who's to say that they won't stay in denial for when that day of self-realization dawns on them? I'll agree with Jim on the many points he made in this video but consider this. The publishers aren't the so-called knights in armor slaying the dragons that threaten them, They are the Dragons! Well technically the dragon-spawners, they created these problems themselves, I think that was what Jim was implying.... I think?

As I said, though, the fear of piracy is really quite ridiculous when you consider that literally any form of entertainment can be pirated. DVDs can be ripped. People can make and upload copies of books. TV shows can be recorded and distributed illegally. And yet no other industry uses that as an excuse to adopt anti-consumer policies. What intelligent companies do is they find a way to provide the product and service in a consumer-friendly way to remain relevant. Are people downloading stuff through the internet? Provide a distribution service online that is easy and painless enough to use that more people feel no real need to pirate games anymore.

Imagine if the world had no libraries or no free-to-air television because of the risk of people copying that content. Imagine if filmmakers had refused to allow Blockbuster to exist because of the risk of people ripping VHSs and DVDs.

Did some people steal and pirate that content? Yes, but they kept going anyway.

We don't want the video game industry to go the road of the record and music industry and descend into irrelevance.

 

[Sehnsucht Engel]

They debunked piracy as a cause for bad sales? I must have missed that, seems like people still want to blame it, even if there's more talk about used games these days. Well, people who pirate a game would usually not have bought it anyway.

Anyway, good episode, Jim. I'm surprised that anyone would think it'd lead to anything else than monopoly.

 

[darksakul]

I never though I say this....

But M$ and the Xbone drove me too this....

Thank God for Jim Sterling and the JIMQUISITION (weeps).

But seriously Microsoft must be reading 1984 by George Orwell and felt it would be a good business strategy.

EA, Microsoft, and you other ass holes out there stop fucking with my First Sales Doctrine

 

[Jennacide]

I'm so unbelievably tired of the used game and piracy straw man arguments game publishers use. It's one of the many reasons why Valve and Steam have the fanbase they do, despite any issues like the fact Steam is a form of DRM. Valve's stance has been refreshing with Gabe's comments like "Pirates are someone to fight. They're an underserved customer."

What really makes the used games argument silly to me is that most of us here can remember older systems and when we were younger, loaning games between friends. By the logic of publishers, those were all lost sales, and no new sales were generated. No new fans were created, and only money was lost. But we all know that's bullshit. During the SNES era that's how I introduced friends into more obscure games like OgreBattle and had my friends buying their own copies. And as anecdotal as my experiences may be, I know they are not uncommon at all.

 

[Jezzascmezza]

I do like the Jimquisition, but I can't help feeling a little down after each episode, seeing as he always reveals so many brutal truths about the sorry state the games industry is currently in.

 

[Requia]

Retailers only getting 1% of the item's worth?
Something sounds incredibly wrong about that kind of figure. Maybe if you're talking about pure profits, basically after they have to pay all their employees and their bills.

Jim specifically said net profit, so yes, after everything else is taken out.

 

[PrototypeC]

I agree with one thing, that I think underlines a big part of this episode, and maybe the Jimquisition in general (if us mortals can dare to attempt to understand Jim's plan). It is that publishers are not your friend. More often than not, publishers are the cancerous mass eating the creativity and cost-effectiveness out of the games industry. They take the lion's share of the profits, not the artists, programmers and sound designers that poured their blood, sweat and tears into the actual games. That they would also screw the game retailers given the chance does not surprise me.

I don't want to end up slaying imaginary dragons either; it's just that it's always the customer being trampled underfoot when titans clash, isn't it?

 

[Muphin_Mann]

I dont often agree with Jim, but here I do. And frankly, I want the Xbone to fail harder than the Vita could ever dream. I want Microsoft to lose hundreds of millions. I want the Devs to walk out on them. And then I want all the gamers, and the retailers, and the developers to turn around and shove the reasons why it failed back at them.

 

[grumpymooselion]

Honestly, after all of this I've come to a decision. As long as the Xbox One continues its current path, I will absolutely and wholly refuse to buy any games, from any publishers, that put games on the Xbox One. Even if they're multi-platform games.

If the PS4 turns out to have the rumored used game DRM, I will do the same. I will only buy games for the PC, and, I'll do what I never thought I'd do, get a Wii U because these practices at my very core have offended me to a point that I no longer care how cool or fun a game looks. If it's in any way attached to a developer or publisher that supports any console that takes measures anything the Xbox One is doing . . . I will simply pass. I am . . . done. I am through. I will not take part in this a single second longer.

If this means I don't get to play games, even ones I really look forward to - that I know I'd enjoy . . . I just am not able to care anymore.

This is the last straw.