Jimquisition: Why An Always-On DRM Console Would Be Dumb Dumb Dumb

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
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superline51 said:
If the console industry does go tits up, I'm not entirely sure what I will do, considering I DESPISE gaming with M&K.
Use your controller?

Maerx said:
MS = MacroSuicide.

Let's hope this is just rumors.
Then why don't they just come out and say so? Everything about "Durango" is bad news for everyone. They could use some plus points right now.
 

Atmos Duality

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Mar 3, 2010
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keitarobg said:
It's about time to start suing developers for imposing always-on DRM and failing to sustain the conditions for it. It's an obvious breach of contract, because the obligee (ze publisher) is denying a service, for which the customer has paid. Imagine buying milk from the store, paying for it and getting just the plastic jug without milk in it, because the cows aren't able to produce milk right now. It's exactly the same.

What I'm trying to say is that it's a legal issue. This is not a debate. People need to turn to court otherwise this bullshit will continue in the future.
Except every publisher who has been pushing Always-Online revokes your right to class-action-suits and shunts the case into arbitration (which is so hilariously one-sided against the customer that it is pointless).

The sick truth of the matter is that they want to push for more and more service-centric business because games, by their very nature, fall under the "natural monopoly" area of goods.

And when you combine "monopoly" with "service"...that's just a license to print money for many many long years.
Just look at the US telecoms-ISP industry.
 

uguito-93

This space for rent
Jul 16, 2009
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I live in Perth, Australia. Our internet is capped, as is almost everyone else's in the country, as well as the fact that it runs piggy-backed on phone lines not designed to handle it. It's limited and drops out for a few seconds every once in a while, which will mean getting booted every time it happens. I cannot imagine an always online console being viable here. If the rumors are true then how the hell would anyone ignore the fact that there are a metric fuckton of people out there who would not be capable of running one, even in urban areas?
 

Living Contradiction

Clearly obfusticated
Nov 8, 2009
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WaitWHAT said:
*Snip snippity snip until...*
Would anyone out there actually buy this console? I mean, like, what would it take to convince you to put up with always-online? I mean, Simcity and Diablo 3 still sold, didn't they? How much of a problem do you think this would cause?
I'll take the first part last, if I may.

Yes, Sim City and Diablo 3 sold well, but you have to bear in mind that once the cash register stops ringing and the screaming from people being unable to play goes quiet, there aren't that many people on the servers. Diablo 3 came out in May of last year and sold three and a half million copies. By June, just over two thousand were playing at 5pm on a weekday. Sim City sold just over a million copies in its first two weeks (no mean feat since Amazon pulled the plug), over half of which were digital. How many are using it now? I imagine you could probably knock two or three zeroes off the sales numbers.

That's a mountain of cash that was made on the front-end followed by minimal server load on the back. Why did the outrage happen? Because the publishers figured out that they didn't need to sink piles of money into servers; they just needed to wait for the screamers to go away and their current servers would be sufficient. They'd already been paid. They didn't care. $60 ($80 for those who embraced the purple shaft and bought the deluxe edition) times million is quite a nice payoff for a little bad PR.

If someone were to sell an always-on console, there'd be a flood of sales at the start, a massive public outcry, the ensuing debacle of "we weren't ready/didn't think it would break/are working to solve the problem/are drinking our celebratory champagne so please fuck off", and then the thing would work because over nine-tenths of the people who bought the stupid thing would put it in a closet or take it back to the store (for a fifteen-percent loss. Gotta love margin cushions). Assuming, of course, that none of the consoles broke (always a danger with new tech) or was broken by irate players. The company would have its money and then cast about for a new shiny to offer the magpie public.

I won't put up with always-online unless, as has been argued by others before me, the game I'm playing actually needs it. Multiplayer requires online, at least if there's real-time interaction. Otherwise, I'll be content with clicking on a link and watching my browser refresh or posting a move and waiting for my opponent to respond. Those are the only reasons I can see for needing an online connection for a game. In all other instances, my gaming is a solitary experience and dammit, I want to be left alone! I don't want someone tapping my shoulder when I play, stealing my kills or interrupting my narrative with "CAN GIVE SOJJJ?"

Would I buy such a console? Yes, yes I would. At a pawn shop, about a year after it released. For ten bucks. So I could show future generations an example of what hubris looks like when it takes physical shape.

On Topic: Mr. Sterling, if you could hear me, I'd applaud. If I could reach you, I'd shake your hand. As it stands, I thank you and sincerely hope you'll continue to call people on their arrogance, their ignorance, and their failings.
 

Jewky

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Feb 19, 2011
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Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they would pull through with this. Always-online DRM would, as Jim said, most likely cripple the used-game industry, hence likely driving more (albeit not as many were going to the used-game retailers) consumers towards them (AAA-industry guys). They're essentially getting rid of some competition and diverting revenues first earned by used-game towards AAA-industry and once they've actually gotten rid of them, they'll be able to raise prices some more, hence increasing their own welfare and reducing consumers', since now several people will no longer get to enjoy such games and the AAA-industry gets a couple more trucks with money.
We see an efficient form of production (used-game industry) being replaced by a less efficient (oligopolistic-form) industry and I seriously doubt that people would refrain from using always-online DRM products out of general principle and so on, since they can already afford it and simply want to enjoy the product. So the only thing I see that could fix this, is that some sort of regulations are established competitive-wise, since there's more to be gained for everyone as a whole (and more evenly distributed among industry and consumers) than when we move to the crippling of the used-game industry.
 

Ken_J

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Jun 4, 2009
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This is kind of why I'm loving my Wii U. Sure it has it's own bullshit but It doesn't look nearly as bad as this
 

Lunar Templar

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Azriel Nightshade said:
Why is always on-line for consols detrimental, but always online via Steam exempt from scrutiny?

I'm not asking this to be contrarian or witty, I'm generally curious. Mainly because the only two PC games I play are WoW and LoL, both on an 5 year old iMac. So I'm a bit out of the loop.
o.0 why do people keep thinking steam needs to be 'always online', it doesn't.

it has an offline mode, which I'm using the hell out of right now because an error is preventing my PC from actually connecting to the net, again. (posting from some moms laptop)

there's been no message telling me to connect, to verify anything, it just can't find a connection and switches to offline mode, and I get to keep playing the games I downloaded before the error hit me again. (I have recently discovered Torchlight 2, so I'm not hurting for things to do. I <3 my Embermage and 'construction' tree Engineer btw)
 

Catrixa

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May 21, 2011
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There was a two week period where my husband and I had just moved into a new place and didn't want to pay Comcast a zillion dollars for two weeks of tubes, since we'd have to pay for installation (see: Comcast guy flipping a switch for $50. Our place already had the damn box), then two weeks (which they would probably just charge a month for, then make us jump through hoops to get rid of the bill entirely. Not a horrible deal, but an annoyance on top of a horrible deal), just to have internet until the FiOS guys could get there. So, I had no internet. And I watched Blu-Rays and DVDs, while playing Torchlight II on Steam (which was totally fine offline).

I've also had moments where I've thought "bring game console to fancy hotel for some convention, so an overstuffed room of people can play games all night? Hells yes!" If I had to then pay exorbitant ($20 for one hour of tubes is kinda a little batshit insane) fees just to access the games, I wouldn't bother. Really, always online is extremely narrow minded. I want to play with this toy all the time! Where I want to! When I want to! I want to take it places and show all my friends! Always-online says, "You will play this console in your living room, after work, like a normal person. You will have the exact experience we tell you to have. If this doesn't work out for you, we're sorry, but we don't really care."

Although, I've gotta say, I'm not sure if the Sim City/Diablo III issues would be equivalent to an always-on console. People aren't usually buying consoles like they buy long-anticipated AAA titles. Consoles normally need good launch titles as well as extreme interest in order to get that kind of launch. Plus, it's always easier to download a game than it is to assemble enough consoles for a launch. Companies should have greater control over consoles sold. (This said, this does not preclude them from cocking it up royally, it should just be harder for them to do so.)
 

Killclaw Kilrathi

Crocuta Crocuta
Dec 28, 2010
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mrblakemiller said:
That last minute was immaculate. The conceit we're being shown is unconscionable. I'm almost looking forward to some big crash (I'm getting too old for hardcore gaming anyways), and seeing what rises from the ashes.
Probably the new indie console market. You've got consoles like the Ouya not only letting people make games for it practically for free, but they're actively encouraging their user base to take it apart and mod it however they like. Not saying that this particular console will necessarily be a success, but it and the other independent/open source consoles might pave the way for how the industry will operate once the big three implode from alienating all their customers.
 

molly31

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Mar 18, 2013
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Microsoft really is the leader of entertainment. If they go through with this I will be getting maximum entertainment with no risk to me or my wallet. So, how can we "support" this?!
 

piclemaniscool

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Dec 19, 2008
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I'm glad that idiot is getting media attention. Surely "deal with it" is a presentable catch-all reaction to disgruntled fans and will only promote the next console.

Next week I hope Jim can bring to light the fact that EA is twisting consumer complaints into an anti-LGBT movement. Please Jim, tear them a new one. Do it for the little guys.
 

DataSnake

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Aug 5, 2009
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Another issue: planned obsolescence. If the xBox 720 requires always-on verification, what happens when those servers are shut down in an attempt to force users to upgrade to the next next-gen console? In addition to the console becoming worthless, with no backward compatibility (a very real possibility if the PS4 is any indication), that would also make any game you bought on the 720 impossible to replay years down the line.

EDIT: that'll show me for commenting before the video ends, Jim actually addressed that point.
 

Nghtgnt

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May 30, 2010
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Scrustle said:
MS needs to realise that it produces a luxury item. As much as gamers are willing to put up with shit to play their favourite games, we all realise that we don't really need to play them. These are things we fill our time with to entertain us. Comparing it to things like phones and vacuum cleaners is ridiculous. Those things are necessary items. We put up with problems with them because the need for them will not go away. If the electricity goes out or the mobile network doesn't cover wherever we happen to be, we wait until those services return and attempt again.

If crappy servers go down just that one time too many, we won't wait any more. We'll go buy a PS4 instead. Or maybe we'll get a PC, or even watch a movie or read a book. Whatever example you can think of. But if your luxury product doesn't work exactly when it is convenient for us, then don't expect our patience to last very long. You can't demand that we "deal with it", you need to deal with us. If you're not fulfilling our requirements, then we're not going to give you our money. Simple as that. You need to work around our demands, not the other way around.

The stupidest thing about all this is that our demands aren't even that complicated. We don't really care about all this fancy gimmicky shit. We just want a machines which has sufficient power to run games, and for those games to be fun. Maybe a few online features as well, like online play and download services. We'll gladly give you money for that. Instead you'd rather overcomplicate everything, treat us like criminals right from the word go, and try to squeeze as much money out of us at every single possible opportunity.
Well said. One thing I'd add is the difference between an "option" and a "requirement" - consumers will like something as an "option", but dislike it when something is a "requirement". Hopefully someone with a degree in business can phrase that better then I, but I think that would be a stronger argument because given enough time the connectivity argument will be rendered moot by the slow march of progress in infrastructure, or by that being a small enough population to not impact the company's profits significantly enough.
 

gorfias

Unrealistic but happy
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May 13, 2009
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the antithesis said:
And that's how the Ouya will outsell the next Xbox. Deal with it.
My buddy's is on the way. He payed into Kickstarter.

I think it is a little behind the curb, but at $100, if it can be replaced by a Tegra 5 in a couple of years, I don't think that will even be an issue. $100 is a throw away item.

I've lost a couple of really good games because a company stopped having a server work. I didn't know when I paid Walmart $10 for a newly anti aliased copy of the original Halflife, I was only renting it and it would stop working from no fault of my own.

ITMT, enjoy:

 

RodSk8Dude

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Nov 10, 2012
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Scrustle said:
[...] phones [...] are necessary items. We put up with problems with them because the need for them will not go away. If [...] the mobile network doesn't cover wherever we happen to be, we wait until those services return and attempt again.[...]
The funny thing is, I can still use my cellphone without internet or reception, to listen to songs, play games and a few other stuff.

Also, I live in Brazil. Games are popular here. But the minimum wage converts to around 300 US dollars, consoles and games, because of taxes, are 500 and 100 US dollars, respectively. It's already hard to have these, just recently me (20) and my brother (29) were able to start buying original products, and I will happily buy original games if they're not full of this kind of bullshit.
And the internet? It's also very expensive. I have a fast internet, but I share it with my brother, so I can't rely on it too much, and although I have a very big family, I don't know ANYONE who has a fast internet, so always online would be really stupid here. And the market really has a lot to expand around here. I mean, the country has around 200 million people, even if most don't have conditions, imagine the part of it that DOES, it still would be a considerable market, wouldn't it?
 

triggrhappy94

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Apr 24, 2010
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So, Google tried to give everyone in San Francisco free Wifi every where. Something consoles could take advantage of. Microsoft sued Google--Google was making a play on the OS market by doing this--to keep them from doing it.
Now, Microsoft demands that everyone be online all the time.
What, does Microsoft think its a Republican Senator now? They think they get to break things than ***** about how the tings they just broke are broken?
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/jon-stewart-knocks-senate-banking-committe
 

Dead Seerius

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Just the episode I was expecting!

You know, it's funny; two years ago I would see 'PC gaming is dying!' being proclaimed all over the internet while people couldn't wait to see what the next generation of gaming consoles would offer. Seems like a bit of a role reversal now.

Anyway, consoles will die if they end up pushing this bullshit DRM. It's revolting how little such DRM supporters think of us consumers. It's insulting. I'm still hopeful that MS isn't stupid enough to include always-online DRM in the Nextbox, but if they do... adios.

I predict "deal with it" will become the rallying cry of the public as they boycott MS if all this turns out to be true.
 

Kenjitsuka

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Sep 10, 2009
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So true. And so, so sad.

Here's to hoping it's just rumors.
Oh, but don't think you're SAFE once it's release without always on requirement!
Ever hear of "System update required to play this title"?
Boom! Now you're always on required after you bought it!

Remember PS3's removal of Linux support?
 
Aug 1, 2010
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DVS BSTrD said:
Uratoh said:
How long until there's a shiny new jim sterling 'deal with it' gif? XD
Sir Thomas Sean Connery said:
I need this immediately.
WaitWHAT said:
NOT SOON ENOUUUGGGH!!

Someone make it NOW!!!!
Got it done as soon as could, I might have a higher quality version up later.
[image/]http://th642.photobucket.com/albums/uu145/bliat/th_brilliantmoot.jpg[/IMG]

Simply fantastic work.

I'll be using this frequently.
 

VoEC

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Dec 10, 2010
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Great episode as always. But I have one question:

Does anyone know where to get/listen to the new background music? It's awesome (and I think it's by Danny B.?)