Jimquisition: Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win

DjinnFor

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The one caveat I think should be added is that people who aren't going to get the game anyways shouldn't feel entitled to *****.

E.g. the Hitman: Absolution trailer. How many devout Catholics are going to get that game? How many women (or men for that matter) who would be up in arms about the over-sexualization of women in games designed for and marketed to males would be playing Hitman?

Honestly, bitching makes sense in some cases but not in others.
 

Spartan212

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I'm all for complaining, but we need to pick our battles here. If we all start bitching about everything we don't like about a game, then we're nothing but the entitled whiny gamers that a lot of people think we are. I thought we were trying to mature as an industry, no? This just seems like a big step backwards

Bitching about a game that has sexism, racism, or any other isms = good
Bitching about getting milked by pubs with crap DLC or unnecessary DRM = good
Bitching because we didn't like the ending to a game = not good

There is a fine line between bitching and complaining. One falls on deaf ears. The other gets results
 

Riobux

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The only problem I find with "go whine, boo boycott" idea is the same reason you pointed out boycotts fail: Because people buy that shit anyway. Gamers have whined about how Call Of Duty's series haven't gone anywhere in four games, and zilch occurred. They still delivered a short campaign, they still delivered generally the same multiplayer and they still delivered overprice DLC (even making it worse by creating a subscription system that's a rip-off, although even more hilarious if you're an X-Box Live user who has to pay Microsoft £40 a year, and then pay Activision some money just to access some additional content).

The only other problem I find is majority wins, but that can't be helped really. There's no way I can calm IO down and say "look, the nuns thing, people just don't get Hitman if they are complaining about that, they just don't understand that Hitman isn't serious but rather got a cheeky grinning dark sense of humour. Come on, this is the same game series that had an obese man in a slaughterhouse you had to assassinate, who when he realises who you are just keeps screaming "GUARDS! GUARDS! GUUUAAARRDDSSS!", unable to move due to his likeness to Pearl from Blade". All I can do is simply deal with it, and accept the majority rule. Even if they are usually misguided.
 

TrevHead

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Mark B said:
Don't "vote with your wallet" instead "buy yourself a vote\voice" ?
Jim is talking more about ppl who just flat out boycott every game with a publishers name on it even if the game is good and aimed at that person. All it does is stop that publisher from making good games.

How many bad games does it take to warrent a blanket boycott? The extreame of that would be for Sonic fans to boycott SEGA even though they have published some of the best games on this gens consoles.

EA have Origin, but they also have some games on Steam and publish on console.
 

Steve the Pocket

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To me, boycotting games ? as it is with any company ? is less about sending a message I know they'll never get from one lost sale they never knew they could have had, and more about not feeling morally right giving my money to someone so unabashedly evil.

That said, if I were naive enough to try to send a message to Ubisoft about DRM, I wouldn't be boycotting all of their games; I'd be buying the ones that are on GOG.
 

mjc0961

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RaikuFA said:
So any ideas on telling Capcom that I want AAI2 and MML3?

Should I make death threats, demand donations back and attack people who don't know what were talking about?
This.

But is whining really going to work all that better than boycotts for most things? Much like boycotts, it's useless unless everyone gets organized and whines together. It worked on Mass Effect 3 because that's exactly what happened: shitloads of Mass Effect fans all over the internet began whining at once. We had people donating to charity and sending cupcakes and writing fan fiction and you couldn't turn your head without finding some people whining about Mass Effect 3's god-awful ending. Other times, as pointed out in this video, people whine about the wrong shit. Rather than whine about Diablo 3's DRM, they whined about colors? And of course, nothing changed on either of those fronts. Oh, and don't forget that classic example of people whining about Sonic 4 and deciding to boycott Sonic 4 in favor of buying Sonic 1, because giving your money to SEGA instead of giving your money to SEGA will really teach those bastards at SEGA what for. And other times, you get the diehard fanboys who try to defend the most asinine business practices and sometimes they manage to be louder and win. Congratulations, people who defend always online DRM and online passes, you have made the world a shittier place.

Basically, it seems like we can't win any battles unless we get lucky and everyone gets pissed off about something important and begins bitching about it at the same time so they can drown out the defenders and get massive attention. Anyway I'm going to go buy Shadows of the Damned now, because Grasshopper Manufacture and Suda 51 are awesome and not giving EA money hasn't stopped them from trying to fuck me up the ass without lube in every game they put out after Shadows of the Damned.
 

J-meMalone

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The Great JT said:
If that's the case, let me get on doing my part. Ahem.

"GODDAMN IT, WHERE THE HELL IS MY SEQUEL TO SKIES OF ARCADIA?! THAT GAME WAS GREAT!!"

Also, I like your hat, Jim.
Yeah it was!

And no, the the protagonists appearing in Valkyria Chronicles was not enough!

OT: A very interesting point, I'd never considered this, and what you say is definitely true.

Thank god for you, Jim.

Edit: Grammar clear up, it was horrible!
 

TrevHead

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RaikuFA said:
So any ideas on telling Capcom that I want AAI2 and MML3?

Should I make death threats, demand donations back and attack people who don't know what were talking about?
Well just refusing to buy unrelated games won't work, if anything it leave the company with less money to spend on games, less risks and new projects which might well be the game you want. Publishers aren't psychic they don't know why you didn't buy a game, to the execs looking at flow charts they will draw up totally different conclusions and probably the total opposite.

I've seen ppl passing up on doujin games like Exceed (100% indie) just because Capcom is helping out with the digital distro in the west, ie a publisher just publishing a game like in the old days.

If a game looks good on it's own merits (including the DRM, DLC etc) buy it, if not don't, sometimes whatever you do won't make any impact, all you can hope to do is create a big enough stink on the internet with enough ppl that the publisher has to sit up and take notice, and in 99% that'll never happen.

Keepeas said:
Now the real question is how can we get the Call of Duty sequels to stop?
You can't as you probably aren't in the same demograghic and the games aren't aimed at you. You matter to COD as much as you matter to the ppl behind Twilight.
 

PunkRex

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Shadowstar38 said:
Devil May Cry. That is all.

Also, this video may impower people to ***** more about things that are inconsequencail. Like the color scheme thing in Diablo 3 earlier in the video.
Oh please don't bring that up... the only argument for it ive seen are 16 year olds complaining that Dantes not 'cool' anymore.

HE WAS NEVER COOL TO BEGIN WITH!!! THATS WHAT MADE HIM FUNNY!!!

Still Dante, a shower wouldn't go a miss.
 

PunkRex

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The Artificially Prolonged said:
Irridium said:
So... who's up for throwing the biggest damn tantrum in the world to get Crytek to make a new Timesplitters game?

Or to make Lucasarts make Battlefront 3?

Because I'd be down for that.
Oh I am!

Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
By all means totally real robot who is in no way a human wearing boxes, allow me to help you *ahem*... WAAAAH, WAAAAAAAAAH, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!

I wanna kill dimensional shamblers along side Captain Ash, Kalamari and Monkeys again.
 

immortalfrieza

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I said pretty much the same thing about the wallet voters on a thread last week:

immortalfrieza said:
The problem with the "just vote with your wallet" argument that everybody seems to love throwing around in threads like this is that there will always be millions of blind fanboy and casual lemmings that are willing to just snap up anything EA and it's acquired companies dish out, and for ever one of those lemmings that wises up and jump ship later, there will always be 10, 100, hell, maybe a 1000 more. The people smart enough voting with their wallets and being driven away are just a tiny blip on EA's radar, practically insignificant statistically. In other words, the wallet voters are ultimately meaningless, they might as well buy into whatever crap EA and companies like it do for all the difference it would ever make.

What EA fails to realize most is that they could perfectly keep both the lemmings AND the wallet voters as well by not being so dickish to their customers, insuring a nice, stable fanbase that would keep the company afloat for however long EA exists.
 

TrevHead

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J-meMalone said:
The Great JT said:
If that's the case, let me get on doing my part. Ahem.

"GODDAMN IT, WHERE THE HELL IS MY SEQUEL TO SKIES OF ARCADIA?! THAT GAME WAS GREAT!!"

Also, I like your hat, Jim.
Yeah it was!

And no, the the protagonists appearing in Valkyria Chronicles was not enough!

OT: A very interesting point, I'd never considered this, and what you say is definitely true.

Thank god for you, Jim.

Edit: Grammar clear up, it was horrible!
Well both games probably won't ever get a sequel* now since SEGA went bust and is drastically cutting back on what games it makes and pulling out of AAA and boxed retail after these games it has in the pipeline are out.

*Discounting iphone/ browser games that is.
 

RaikuFA

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TrevHead said:
RaikuFA said:
So any ideas on telling Capcom that I want AAI2 and MML3?

Should I make death threats, demand donations back and attack people who don't know what were talking about?
Well just refusing to buy unrelated games won't work, if anything it leave the company with less money to spend on games, less risks and new projects which might well be the game you want. Publishers aren't psychic they don't know why you didn't buy a game, to the execs looking at flow charts they will draw up totally different conclusions and probably the total opposite.

I've seen ppl passing up on doujin games like Exceed (100% indie) just because Capcom is helping out with the digital distro in the west, ie a publisher just publishing a game like in the old days.

If a game looks good on it's own merits (including the DRM, DLC etc) buy it, if not don't, sometimes you have to realise that sometimes whatever you do won't make any impact, all you can hope to do is create a big enough stink on the internet with enough ppl that the publisher has to sit up and take notice, and in 99% that'll never happen.
But if I do, then it encourages Capcom to not release AA games. They use Okamiden as an excuse to not release AAI2.

You probably are wondering what I mean, well Capcom says since the first AAI worldwide sales(which was just JP and US.) were outdone by Okamidens(which was sold in every region) we don't get any more AA games. Logic, huh?
 

V da Mighty Taco

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Irridium said:
So... who's up for throwing the biggest damn tantrum in the world to get Crytek to make a new Timesplitters game?

Or to make Lucasarts make Battlefront 3?

Because I'd be down for that.
*foams at the mouth*

BAAAAAAAAAAAATTLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEFROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONT 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I'm still pissed about that. *looks nostalgically at Battlefront 2*
 

Lord Beautiful

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Jimothy Sterling said:
I love and have plenty of respect for the old DMC games, but I am all about this game.

1: I've never cared much for framerate. I understand the problem people have with 30fps and I respect it, but I personally do not give a shit. The difference between 30 and 60fps has never made me love or hate a game more.

2: So what?

3: Bullet time is meh, but again, I've never found it ruinous to an experience. I tend to not use them much myself.

4: A matter of pure taste, and not an objective mark of whether you love DMC or not.
Also, it does look to have legitimately good gameplay. As far as spectacle fighters at 30 frames go, it looks to be about the best one yet, if these most recent streams from Capcom-Unity are any example. I especially respect the lack of QTE implementation.

I'm still not giving Capcom money for it, as I am a rabid Devil May Cry fanboy and Capcom's been pulling entirely too many dick moves lately. I resent it for being a gross simplification of what was among the most fluid, technical combat systems ever devised for any 3D action game. I resent it for radically altering the personality of my all-time favorite game protagonist.

I don't resent people who enjoy it, though. I don't resent those who give it praise. I don't resent those who'll buy it. Enjoy yourselves, guys. It looks kinda fun.

However, you can bet your ass I resent the constant, sheeplike bleating that the fanbase is just pissed about the hair. Or that we're just pissed about change in general.

Also, I'm still a bit butthurt about DmC Dante's inclusion in a game titled Playstation All-Stars. Doesn't mean I'm boycotting it, but it does mean I know who my training dummy will be if the game turns out well.

EDIT:
Good episode, by the way. Sorry I didn't include that originally.

Good points.
 

Darth_Payn

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I think I got a mixed message from this episode. Whinig is annoying behavior, but it gets results? Isn't that the kind of precedent people were afraid the ME3 ending debacle was setting for the industry?
 

geizr

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Complaining about bad business is all well and good; however, if you can't show any commitment to back-up your complaint with some kind of enforcement (boycott, lawsuit, etc.), then the complaints just fall on deaf ears, especially when the company has record breaking profits as a result of the shitty business practice. Not much incentive for them to change if it causes their bottom-line to improve. Has EA, Activision, or Ubisoft made even one iota of movement toward changing their shitty business practices in light of all the complaints and hatred that gets heaped upon them for said shitty business practices? Not that I can tell.

Small companies that feel more vulnerable to severe revenue drops from disenfranchised fans may be more susceptible to make changes in light of a few vocal complaints, but these larger companies that, from all they've seen of gamers' purchasing behaviors, think they can just do whatever and any product they churn out will simply "print money" are not going to be at all swayed by the Internet ***** & Whine Festival. They'll just come up with a rationale to justify their actions and continue what they are doing, making money, hand-over-fist, despite all the haterade being lobbed in their direction, because they know gamers will just keep on buying it. There's no incentive for them to change and no cost to simply maintaining business-as-usual.

Also, people who ***** and whine repeatedly about being mistreated, cheated, or lied to and still keep throwing their money at the person/company doing these things to them is called, at least in the olden days, A SUCKER.