Jimquisition: Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win

TrevHead

New member
Apr 10, 2011
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RaikuFA said:
But if I do, then it encourages Capcom to not release AA games. They use Okamiden as an excuse to not release AAI2.

You probably are wondering what I mean, well Capcom says since the first AAI worldwide sales(which was just JP and US.) were outdone by Okamidens(which was sold in every region) we don't get any more AA games. Logic, huh?
Ah I get you, well I suppose all you can do is talk about AA, about what great games they are to get others wanting another game. Or just buy a clone, the industry loves to jump on the bandwagon. Ignoring Okamiden won't solve anything it's a totally different game.

As someone who likes shmups and arcade beat em ups both super niche genres, it's annoying not seeing the games released that I want to play but I accept the fact that i'm in too niche a bracket to make an impact and just do what I can and try to keep those and the enjoyment of other games separate.

Considering the large amount of shmups on the 360 for the tiny demographic who buys them it's not so bad. Most STG fans (with money to burn) tend to just buying multiple copies of a game they want to support, plus the (good) DLC, merchandise and OST
 

The Artificially Prolonged

Random Semi-Frequent Poster
Jul 15, 2008
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PunkRex said:
The Artificially Prolonged said:
Irridium said:
So... who's up for throwing the biggest damn tantrum in the world to get Crytek to make a new Timesplitters game?

Or to make Lucasarts make Battlefront 3?

Because I'd be down for that.
Oh I am!

Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
Crytek, when are we getting Timesplitters 4?
By all means totally real robot who is in no way a human wearing boxes, allow me to help you *ahem*... WAAAAH, WAAAAAAAAAH, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!

I wanna kill dimensional shamblers along side Captain Ash, Kalamari and Monkeys again.
Hey I'm a totally legit robot, its just that my operating system doesn't support metal armour. If only I could upgrade to some newer version with better hardware :p

Anyway I think we've made a good start, though I think we can be more whiny. Do we know anyone who can hold their breath for a long time or stamp their feet loudly?
 

Cid Silverwing

Paladin of The Light
Jul 27, 2008
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Guys.

Nothing works. Boycotts don't work, whining doesn't work, absolutely nothing works.

Not until we get rid of publishers as a whole and give developers better ability to self-publish their IP.

I can cry an ocean over Mass Effect 3's ending and EA won't listen, no matter how many of us do it. BioWare remains in insufferable denial and clings to their imagined "artistic integrity". That tack-on patch of "extended cuts" didn't fix shit. They just don't CARE. EA will crush, burn, mix and repeat until they have their golden money palace, consumer opinion be damned.
 
Jun 11, 2008
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WhiteTigerShiro said:
For me the big lol boycott was the MASSIVE "Boycott MW2" group on Steam; day one, roughly half of them were playing. And you know, I think that's the biggest part of where the whole "Quit whining, you know you'll buy it anyway" thing came from anyway. We all have this image of people proclaiming that they're going to boycott a game, yet when the chips are down, they're standing in line outside of Gamestop for the midnight release.
That was about 12 people of the group which were currently online. So yeah about 1/2 the first page was of a group that was ~850 in size and of a boycott that got ~250,000 signature and saw the return of basically everything bar modding in the next instalment.

Just saiyin that was a high circumstantial picture especially given that if you go on VG chartz according to retail sales MW 2 PC sold more exactly less the boycott's worth of units compared to CoD 4.
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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Sep 26, 2008
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Glademaster said:
Just saiyin that was a high circumstantial picture especially given that if you go on VG chartz according to retail sales MW 2 PC sold more exactly less the boycott's worth of units compared to CoD 4.
Which, as the video already discussed, only succeeds in sending the wrong message. Activision won't look at those numbers and say "Wow, we better put more effort into the PC version" (which is what the boycott was about), they'll look at those numbers and say "Hm, fewer sales on PC, we better make sure not to spend any more money on the PC version than what it costs to port from the consoles".
 

CD-R

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Mar 1, 2009
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Peter Chordash said:
Where does not buying Mass Effect 3 fall in the case of not wanting to buy it somewhere other than Steam?
Not buying something because it doesn't have your favorite form of DRM on it? Uhhh hmmmm.
 

Redd the Sock

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Apr 14, 2010
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The problem with boycotts is they leave important details in the hand of narcissistic tools that seem to miss the point. They actually seem surprised people might get upset at having content put on the disk to be sold back to us, and as such would blame falling sales on market saturation or lack of interest in the series long before any decision they made. Without some voice saying, this pissed us off and cost you a sale, publishers will miss the point every time.
 
Jun 11, 2008
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WhiteTigerShiro said:
Glademaster said:
Just saiyin that was a high circumstantial picture especially given that if you go on VG chartz according to retail sales MW 2 PC sold more exactly less the boycott's worth of units compared to CoD 4.
Which, as the video already discussed, only succeeds in sending the wrong message. Activision won't look at those numbers and say "Wow, we better put more effort into the PC version" (which is what the boycott was about), they'll look at those numbers and say "Hm, fewer sales on PC, we better make sure not to spend any more money on the PC version than what it costs to port from the consoles".
You really just ignored what I said. The boycott was about removed features such as lean, modding and dedicated servers all which were put back in bar one so all in all it did its job fairly well. It basically made them PR wise say we better put in more effort next time.
 

CrazyCapnMorgan

Is not insane, just crazy >:)
Jan 5, 2011
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Jimothy Sterling said:
Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win

Continuing on from the argument that one can love games as art but hate them as a business, Jimquisition this week focuses on how gamers can best express their distaste for the latter while still supporting the former.

Watch Video
It is incredibly sad to know that gamers, through their collective actions both with and without their wallets, can be a potential force to help change all of gaming for the better but lack the necessary cohesion as said collective. Unfortunately, with all of the petty and meaningless stigmas, labels and differences we gamers possess and, through mindless bickering and constant mentioning, give relevance to such as PC/Console gamers, guy/girl gamers, hardcore/recreational/social gamers, all of the different genres of games, etc. it seems extremely difficult, to the point of being nigh impossible, to gather the masses (so to speak) for an attempt to change things for the better.

Perhaps dissecting these issues intelligently and with critical thought might give rise to some future Jimquisition episodes, hm?
 

Sheo_Dagana

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Aug 12, 2009
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Ya know, Mr. Sterling... I was going to disagree with this video entirely, because as someone that liked the Mass Effect 3 ending, I got tired of being called a spineless fuck for not standing up and bitching. But... I have to say, you make a pretty strong argument.

Bitching really does seem to be getting results. Even Blizzard has noticed how much people are bitching about Diablo 3 and are panicking about it. Bitching the RIGHT way is probably the better way to put this. Whining should probably still be ignored, but righteous indignation can be a force to be reckoned with.

Also, all of that delicious War for Cybertron footage got me pumped for Fall of Cybertron tomorrow. Thank you for that as well.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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I love you Jim

and thats the thing..I like the deveopers of dead space and bioware MORE than I hate EA..I but the games to support them
 

Sheo_Dagana

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Aug 12, 2009
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NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Toilet said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Devil May Cry. That is all.

Also, this video may impower people to ***** more about things that are inconsequencail. Like the color scheme thing in Diablo 3 earlier in the video.
As I said in the vid, I'll always reserve the right to call them whining pricks when they're doing just that.
Well here is my gripe with the new DmC which is not about the new Dante. I fucking love the franchise but Ninja Theory is just sucking the fun and life from it.
-It's made with Unreal and locked at 30fps with 3 or 4 enemies on screen where as DMC3 & 4 were locked at 60fps and had 6 or 7 baddies on screen.
-Has a stance system (Angel/Devil Stances) which is ripped straight from Heavenly Sword
-Devil Trigger is basically a bullettime mechanic which slows the beloved CU-RAZY Combat.
-Ninja Theory has put in finishers which further slows down the game.

Yeah if you like or have any respect for Devil May Cry you will stay the fuck away from this one.
I love and have plenty of respect for the old DMC games, but I am all about this game.

1: I've never cared much for framerate. I understand the problem people have with 30fps and I respect it, but I personally do not give a shit. The difference between 30 and 60fps has never made me love or hate a game more.

2: So what?

3: Bullet time is meh, but again, I've never found it ruinous to an experience. I tend to not use them much myself.

4: A matter of pure taste, and not an objective mark of whether you love DMC or not.
Problem is, Jim, you're talking about the difference between Devil May Cry, and God of War wearing a Devil May Cry skin. It's like what the latest Castlevania did: if you're going to remove the free-roam aspect from that, and basically remove Dracula, why even call it Castlevania. If you're going to remove the hectic DMC combat, why call it Devil May Cry?
You, and everyone else with your opinion, is overreacting to the change. Lets take a look at another franchise Capcom has/had - Megaman. Megaman is a side-scrolling, run 'n gun, platformer, and all of it's games were pretty much that. Then, Capcom released Megaman Legends - a free-roam third-person shooter with RPG elements and a slightly cartoonish appearance. Legends is nothing like it's roots, yet it is one of the most popular installments in the franchise.

Also, you DO know that God of War's combat was inspired by Castlevania Lament of Innocence, right? They weren't really putting on the God of War skin as much as they were putting back on some old clothes.

Change can be a good thing. My only problem with DmC is that I have yet to like a Ninja Theory game. But you don't KNOW this game will suck. You can't know. Not until you finally have it in your hands and play it (because you know you will.)
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Sheo_Dagana said:
Lets take a look at another franchise Capcom has/had - Megaman. Megaman is a side-scrolling, run 'n gun, platformer, and all of it's games were pretty much that. Then, Capcom released Megaman Legends - a free-roam third-person shooter with RPG elements and a slightly cartoonish appearance. Legends is nothing like it's roots, yet it is one of the most popular installments in the franchise.
TO BE FAIR:

Few games have been as heavily identified by their gameplay itself as the DMC series. It's always been about stylish, OTT combat and the rest is gravy. While Mega Man was a platformer, it was mostly due to its roots and was hardly defined by it. Each game did have different elements to it, puzzles to solve, bits that made it not a pure platformer. The transition to third person isn't a big deal for a game that had no reason to just be 2D anyway (though I prefer 2D Mega Man titles). Zelda is another example where there's no need for it to be the way it was (though I don't like 3D Zelda, either).

I'm not sure anyone's ever going to define Zelda by the combat.

If you take away the stylish action from DMC, you take away a fair share of its identity. Maybe it's not a good thing, but that's sort of the identity it had going.

Now, personally, I don't hate the new DMC or the new Dante, and I'm pretty wait and see. But I wasn't married to the old games, either.
 

vezon

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Jun 21, 2012
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Very good point Jim.
I will try to give an example as why boycots usually dont work.
Lets say 50% of 1MIL wannabuyers want to boycot. Question is how do u know how many want to buy the game. After the sales goes and they sale 500k copies, the publisher can presume easily that only some 5% bitches are out there and they conclude that only 525k would have bought the game not 1MIL so they will blame the developer.
So indeed as Jim sad, everyone of the 1MIL should buy the game and the 500k should whine on their forums every fu... day. And that would be really scary.
PS. I so on with this "I love game as an art and hate as a bussiness". Sometimes I miss so much the good old days.
 

wild0061

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Sep 8, 2008
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Good stuff Jim, I've been telling my mates the same for a while now, if consumers don't complain when they've been given a crap deal, they'll just get the same crap deal again and again and the big businesses will be none the wiser.
 

Zer_

Rocket Scientist
Feb 7, 2008
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Shadowstar38 said:
Devil May Cry. That is all.

Also, this video may impower people to ***** more about things that are inconsequencail. Like the color scheme thing in Diablo 3 earlier in the video.
Well yeah, but those people got called out big time. Diablo 3's color scheme wasn't all that "colorful" it was most certainly on par with Diablo 2's color scheme and I never really understood the complaints about it. And after Diablo 3's release most of us figured out that Diablo 3 had a slew of other issues, mostly tied to the Real Money Auction house. I mean let's face it, Diablo 3 was designed around the idea of the RMAH and now Blizzard is scrambling to fix the mistakes the made.

In the end I feel it's too little too late for Blizzard. Most people don't want to bother grinding for gear, and the inclusion of their Arena PVP system won't help one bit. Furthermore, they're trying to tack on some "extra" progression that really doesn't add a whole lot of actual content, I view it in a similar light to World of WarCraft's achievement system. At least World of WarCraft gets regular content updates to keep their fanbase satiated, though.