Jimquisition: Why PC Gaming Gets Away With It

[Dragonbums]

Here's a question for people who can't live without having physical copies of their games: Have you considered that digital is much less wasteful? And bad for the environment? There's everything that has to go into making the plastic and then the games have to be shipped in planes and then driven to the retailer. And then you have to drive to the shop to pick it up or have someone have it driven to you. Just think about that carbon footprint you could be avoiding.

Firstly, your argument is so flawed I can't even...
Everything, from your computer, to the things you use for comfort was delivered in some way.
You might as well quit right now and live in the forest.
Saying that we aren't environmentally conscious about ourselves because we want to OWN the thing we paid $60.00 for is stupid.
Saying that being that environmentally conscious is a good reason to go digital is even dumber.

Yes of course we have to get our PCs etc made and delivered. That does contribute to the carbon footprint. The thing is having games physically distributed and us going out to get them ADDS some more to that carbon footprint than we otherwise would have, if we had simply downloaded the game.

That is still a very poor reason to convince to someone to go digital. You are going to have to find a better argument then that.

You see where I'm getting at here?
I would argue that someone who isn't convinced when the stability of our planet's environment is in question has not got their priorities straight.

I'm sure you'd agree that the planet is more important than one's personal sense of ownership over a videogame?

The planet is also more important than ones car, television, monitor, heating, cooling, cooking ware,utensils, etc.

I know. However most people don't want to have to buy their games digitally because it apparently violates their petty sense of ownership of the game. Whereas people don't buy cars, TVs, monitors, heating, cooling etc for a reason as ridiculous as that.

What do you mean by that?
People BUY cars for transportation and OWNERSHIP. Nobody would purchase a car that would never really belong to them.
People BUY televisions because besides entertainment they want to OWN a television.

 

[Reeve]

Here's a question for people who can't live without having physical copies of their games: Have you considered that digital is much less wasteful? And bad for the environment? There's everything that has to go into making the plastic and then the games have to be shipped in planes and then driven to the retailer. And then you have to drive to the shop to pick it up or have someone have it driven to you. Just think about that carbon footprint you could be avoiding.

Firstly, your argument is so flawed I can't even...
Everything, from your computer, to the things you use for comfort was delivered in some way.
You might as well quit right now and live in the forest.
Saying that we aren't environmentally conscious about ourselves because we want to OWN the thing we paid $60.00 for is stupid.
Saying that being that environmentally conscious is a good reason to go digital is even dumber.

Yes of course we have to get our PCs etc made and delivered. That does contribute to the carbon footprint. The thing is having games physically distributed and us going out to get them ADDS some more to that carbon footprint than we otherwise would have, if we had simply downloaded the game.

That is still a very poor reason to convince to someone to go digital. You are going to have to find a better argument then that.

You see where I'm getting at here?
I would argue that someone who isn't convinced when the stability of our planet's environment is in question has not got their priorities straight.

I'm sure you'd agree that the planet is more important than one's personal sense of ownership over a videogame?

The planet is also more important than ones car, television, monitor, heating, cooling, cooking ware,utensils, etc.

I know. However most people don't want to have to buy their games digitally because it apparently violates their petty sense of ownership of the game. Whereas people don't buy cars, TVs, monitors, heating, cooling etc for a reason as ridiculous as that.

What do you mean by that?
People BUY cars for transportation and OWNERSHIP. Nobody would purchase a car that would never really belong to them.
People BUY televisions because besides entertainment they want to OWN a television.

It's not the primary reason though, is it? People buy cars for transport. People buy TVs to watch - First and foremost.
A lot of gamers, on the other hand, when given the choice between getting their games digitally or physically, will go for the physical copy ONLY for the arbitrary reason that they want it to feel like they "own" it. And every time the planet takes another hit.

 

[Deacon Cole]

The WiiU is actually cheaper than $400 at its most basic set and does have games that the PC will probably never have. So the WiiU does have that going for it.

Saying a Nintendo console has games that are not available on PC is like saying your brothers wife won't have sex with you.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

What do you mean by that?
People BUY cars for transportation and OWNERSHIP. Nobody would purchase a car that would never really belong to them.
People BUY televisions because besides entertainment they want to OWN a television.

People lease and rent cars and TVs all the time.

I would argue that nobody buys those things to own them, they buy them to get practical use out of them. Why would you buy a car just to own it? You buy a car for the function it provides - transportation. Only the most vain and superficial people would buy a car just to say that they own it.

 

[Atmos Duality]

EDIT: And System Shock 2 might not be the best example. Have you tried playing it on a modern OS? Good luck with that..

I bought and downloaded SS2 the first day it popped up on GoG.
It works perfectly fine; better than when it was new actually, since it hasn't crashed.

 

[EvilRoy]

Here's a question for people who can't live without having physical copies of their games: Have you considered that digital is much less wasteful? And bad for the environment? There's everything that has to go into making the plastic and then the games have to be shipped in planes and then driven to the retailer. And then you have to drive to the shop to pick it up or have someone have it driven to you. Just think about that carbon footprint you could be avoiding.

Firstly, your argument is so flawed I can't even...
Everything, from your computer, to the things you use for comfort was delivered in some way.
You might as well quit right now and live in the forest.
Saying that we aren't environmentally conscious about ourselves because we want to OWN the thing we paid $60.00 for is stupid.
Saying that being that environmentally conscious is a good reason to go digital is even dumber.

Yes of course we have to get our PCs etc made and delivered. That does contribute to the carbon footprint. The thing is having games physically distributed and us going out to get them ADDS some more to that carbon footprint than we otherwise would have, if we had simply downloaded the game.

That is still a very poor reason to convince to someone to go digital. You are going to have to find a better argument then that.

I would argue that someone who isn't convinced when the stability of our planet's environment is in question has not got their priorities straight.

I'm sure you'd agree that the planet is more important than one's personal sense of ownership over a videogame?

The planet is also more important than ones car, television, monitor, heating, cooling, cooking ware,utensils, etc.

You see where I'm getting at here?

You've got to watch out though, thats slipping into Nirvana Fallacy territory. Just because it won't solve the problem completely by itself does not make the choice to take a single more environmentally friendly option any less positive or helpful.

See also: "Why bother giving money to HoH? There will still be homeless people." and "Why quit drinking soda? It's not like that one change will help you lose any real weight."

 

[porous_shield]

The WiiU is backward compatible with the Wii, so I don't know what he'd talking about when he says none of the systems are backward compatible anymore. Also, I bought Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath last December and I still can't play it nor can I find a patch for it. :\ Plus, I could probably think of several PC games that just won't work on modern systems due to them not being backward compatible. And as OSs change, more games will have this problem. Sure GOG is releasing old ones for modern systems, but they can't get to every game and there are sure to be some that just fall through the cracks of time.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that backward-compatibility, or rather the preservation of older games is still a really big issue facing the medium, just like how film had the same problem when the first films ever made weren't preserved and were lost in time. Although I must say I'm really glad with how Nintendo is at least trying to preserve their older titles, if only for the present. Sony has done very little in this regard and I constantly fear for the day my old PS2 discs just stop working.

Yours is a very strange argument. Nintendo is one entity, the PC is not, you can't compare their policies to each other. The PC is a millions times more backwards compatible than any of the consoles simply because of how adaptable it is; you can also play a boatload of console games through emulation that is how adaptable a PC is. Sure you can play your Wii games on your Wii-U but you can play games from the late eighties on your PC and there are pages and pages of text in treads all across the internet devoted to getting old games to work on newer configurations.

 

[AstaresPanda]

Im so glad he spelled it out to people. I left consoles behind soon after the late PS1/N64 era. And have never looked back, back then playing online games with ppl on my 33.6k modem was amazing to me. Consoles once had to plug and play on its side and simple to pick up n play but not anymore. And Pc is just far better in the long run.

fact is the cost of a console and a couple of games = the cost of a good pc gaming rig provided you build it yourself which is not very hard at all. Games are cheaper have a longer life span with added community made stuff etc, Steam sales are always amazing. And on top of that no months xbox/psn fee if you got the net thats it.

honestly its not console bashing if its all true. You console gaming brothers and sisters your being ripped off.

 

[Seracen]

I recently came across a thread wherein I read a bit of concerning news. Apparently, M$ reserves the right, and intends, to revert the DRM policies to the crappy practices later on (the quoted patch was 1.2, I believe).

I really hope this is more conspiracy theory nonsense, but I have been afraid of just this very outcome. I expect the uproar would be unprecedented, but what's to keep XBONE from doing this once the preorders/initial sales are in?

Personally, I am assuming that the previous DRM-laden policy will be for digital games only (like on demand or XBLA), if at all. The point is moot, in my case, since I intend to get a PS4 first anyways, and will likely hold off on next gen (relying on my PC in the interim) for at least a year.

 

[BBQSoda]

I agree completely with everything brought up in this video.

However, I must also point out that you are forgetting one thing: The PC used game market was dead (relative to the console market anyway) well before digital distribution took off.

Remember the PC game section of your local Gamestop or equivalent 10-ish years ago? No? Well, they did keep that one tiny shelf hidden in the back as well as they could....

 

[Jennacide]

Game returns on Steam are pretty easy if you have a valid reason for the return. I bought Defender's Quest during the sale today, and it straight up WILL NOT run on my monitor for some reason I can't figure out. I sent a report to Steam asking if I could get a refund on the game due to being completely unable to get it to work past the title screen. An hour later the game vanished from my library and my Steam Wallet had been refunded the $5 I spent.

 

[ThinkerT]

But it's all still a smokescreen. Those advantages are great and all, but this was supposed to be a video about why we accept DRM on PCs and it managed to talk about everything about PC gaming but DRM. Doesn't matter how many sheets we throw over it, the elephant in the room is still there. "LOOK AT THE SHINY SHINY!" is not an argument for why DRM is okay.

I get the point, honestly I do; jingle enough keys at people and they'll eventually look away from the Dig'Em statue, and the XBone didn't offer enough keys; but I think we all know that there's probably no amount of keys you could attach to the 180 that would be enough for a hell of a lot of people. All the anti-DRM arguments that people put forward for the consoles, particularly the hallowed first-sale doctrine (disclaimer: I'm British, so that likely isn't an issue for me - there's probably some different shit going on over here), are still valid for the PC and still not being addressed. There are still questions about why you can't move on used software, for example, and "because Steam! And GoG!" is not an answer to any of those questions.

captcha: let it be. NO.

It's not a smokescreen at all, and he addresses it head on several times. I'm not sure how you're missing it at this point.

Yes, PCs have (some) DRM. Yes, DRM sucks. No one is attempting to make the argument that DRM is "okay" for consumers in and of itself. But PC gaming has ALL of these other positives that make DRM more tolerable, whereas consoles have very few of them. It's not a "shiny shiny", it's a cost/benefit analysis, that for most, including Jim, comes up on the positive side. He's arguing that MS is attempting to introduce all of the negatives and few of the positives.

That, combined with the less-obtrusive nature of the DRM on PCs compared to what MS proposed, is "Why PC Gaming Gets Away With It".

 

[scott91575]

I agree completely with everything brought up in this video.

However, I must also point out that you are forgetting one thing: The PC used game market was dead (relative to the console market anyway) well before digital distribution took off.

Remember the PC game section of your local Gamestop or equivalent 10-ish years ago? No? Well, they did keep that one tiny shelf hidden in the back as well as they could....

I can't really speak for Gamestop 10ish years ago, but I know my local Best Buy used to have 2+ isles of PC games 10ish years ago. It was bigger than any current console shelf space (of course the PS2 was the biggest area since they dominated consoles at the time).

 

[Zeckt]

Game returns on Steam are pretty easy if you have a valid reason for the return. I bought Defender's Quest during the sale today, and it straight up WILL NOT run on my monitor for some reason I can't figure out. I sent a report to Steam asking if I could get a refund on the game due to being completely unable to get it to work past the title screen. An hour later the game vanished from my library and my Steam Wallet had been refunded the $5 I spent.

Ooooh that's a shame, its a fun game!

 

[BaronVH]

The reason PC gets away with it is piracy. It is so insanely rampant on PC games, if they didn't control it there would be no games, and piracy is one of the reasons we don't see more games on PCs. I was a long, long time PC gamer. Now that I am older, I enjoy reclining in a soft, fancy chair in front of my home theater and not hunching over a keyboard. Console gaming is more comfortable. The reasons consoles wanted DRM (and Sony did too, they just pulled a little PR coup), is that the used game market cuts into AAA title profits.

 

[scott91575]

The reason PC gets away with it is piracy. It is so insanely rampant on PC games, if they didn't control it there would be no games, and piracy is one of the reasons we don't see more games on PCs. I was a long, long time PC gamer. Now that I am older, I enjoy reclining in a soft, fancy chair in front of my home theater and not hunching over a keyboard. Console gaming is more comfortable. The reasons consoles wanted DRM (and Sony did too, they just pulled a little PR coup), is that the used game market cuts into AAA title profits.

That logic is pretty flawed considering DRM doesn't stop piracy.

BTW...I lounge in a comfortable chair in front of a big tv while PC gaming. You are doing it wrong.

 

[BBQSoda]

I can't really speak for Gamestop 10ish years ago, but I know my local Best Buy used to have 2+ isles of PC games 10ish years ago. It was bigger than any current console shelf space (of course the PS2 was the biggest area since they dominated consoles at the time).

Were they new or used games? I remember seeing some respectable shelf space at various stores for new PC games, but I had to really hunt for some used ones.

 

[scott91575]

I can't really speak for Gamestop 10ish years ago, but I know my local Best Buy used to have 2+ isles of PC games 10ish years ago. It was bigger than any current console shelf space (of course the PS2 was the biggest area since they dominated consoles at the time).

Were they new or used games? I remember seeing some respectable shelf space at various stores for new PC games, but I had to really hunt for some used ones.

My bad, I thought you shifted to why digital distribution took off after making a point about used games (guess I read it too fast). Yeah, used PC games were never big, ever. In the early days people used to just make bootleg copies like people would do with CD's and tapes. It was incredibly easy (as long as you had a manual or a copy of a manual you were good to go most of the time). I don't even recall Babbage's ever doing used PC games even when over half their store was PC/Mac games. Then that whole internet thing came along and people looking for cheap games just pirated them over the internet. Hey, just like music again.

So yeah, you are right. Used PC games were never much of a market (although I have sold older PC games to Amazon, so there was a small market even in recent years).

 

[Yuuki]

Not to mention that you can put together a gaming PC for the price of a console these days.


So consoles don't even have the lower price point to make them attractive.

Far more up-to-date and powerful build for $500 from the same guy: