Jimquisition: Why the Wii U May Have Already "Won" Next-gen

[Mr.Mattress]

And people have to stop carrying this notion that Nintendo is "printing money" and "laughing to the bank". All 3 console manufacturers have lost money this generation. Nintendo actually lost twice as much money as MS this fiscal year, and after slumping 3rd party sales its not hard to see why.

This is true, but please take into account that this year was Nintendo's first ever fiscal loss. Before that, they were indeed printing money off the DS and the Wii. They were making money while the XBox and PS3 hemorrhaged it. You still have a point, that Nintendo's lack of 3rd Party support on the Wii as well as the Price Cut on the 3DS (Which resulted at them selling the units at a loss) was what caused them to loose money this year. Regardless, they were indeed "Printing Money" and "Laughing To The Bank" via 2006-2011.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

And people have to stop carrying this notion that Nintendo is "printing money" and "laughing to the bank". All 3 console manufacturers have lost money this generation. Nintendo actually lost twice as much money as MS this fiscal year, and after slumping 3rd party sales its not hard to see why.

This is true, but please take into account that this year was Nintendo's first ever fiscal loss. Before that, they were indeed printing money off the DS and the Wii. They were making money while the XBox and PS3 hemorrhaged it. You still have a point, that Nintendo's lack of 3rd Party support on the Wii as well as the Price Cut on the 3DS (Which resulted at them selling the units at a loss) was what caused them to loose money this year. Regardless, they were indeed "Printing Money" and "Laughing To The Bank" via 2006-2011.

I've taken this into account. I still find it hard to justify the use of phrases like that when if Nintendo really were "printing money" they would not have posted a loss. That loss didn't come from one year of lackluster 3rd party support. Wii sales took a massive nosedive 2 years ago and any software sales that weren't a 1st party title didn't move many units for about the same time.

To me "printing money" implies making money enough money to not post a loss for a long time.

 

[Poindexter]

Its gonna be a toss up. Products are always trying to catch up to another on the market.

 

[Joccaren]

I still think the WiiU will lose, namely do to it's weak graphics, I'm not a graphics snug but looking at the Wii I believe that what hurt it the most the fact that it didn't even have the option to support multiplatform titles which directly led to it's tiny library that so crippled it in the long run. The WiiU may be able to offer a unique experience but if Nintendo doesn't have a plan to up it's capability when Sony and Microsoft come around, every developer is gonna jump the Wii ship again and move to a console that has the power to make what they want instead of a console with a novel gimmick. Not to mention releasing new console without Sony or Microsoft not even releasing rumors of is also gonna hurt it for two reasons that I can see, one it gives Sony and Microsoft a great chance to improve the WiiU idea and have it in the console right off the bat, which the Move and Kinetic proves both companies are willing to and capable of doing. The second reason is I think most people would rather campare consoles to make sure they have the best value I can imagine a lot of people not buying a WiiU simply becuase they want to see it stack up against the PS4 or Xbox720 first.

If that were the case developers would have switched over to the PC long ago, as its graphics potential is FAR higher than even the Nextbox and PSnext could hope to offer. In general you'll find they probably hold a similar idea to gamers in such cases where whoever has the highest graphics doesn't matter too much. The WiiU has better graphics than the current PS3 and Xbox 360 from memory, so that'll probably count as good enough for most people - seeing as worse graphics count as good enough ATM.

 

[Mr.Mattress]

And people have to stop carrying this notion that Nintendo is "printing money" and "laughing to the bank". All 3 console manufacturers have lost money this generation. Nintendo actually lost twice as much money as MS this fiscal year, and after slumping 3rd party sales its not hard to see why.

This is true, but please take into account that this year was Nintendo's first ever fiscal loss. Before that, they were indeed printing money off the DS and the Wii. They were making money while the XBox and PS3 hemorrhaged it. You still have a point, that Nintendo's lack of 3rd Party support on the Wii as well as the Price Cut on the 3DS (Which resulted at them selling the units at a loss) was what caused them to loose money this year. Regardless, they were indeed "Printing Money" and "Laughing To The Bank" via 2006-2011.

I've taken this into account. I still find it hard to justify the use of phrases like that when if Nintendo really were "printing money" they would not have posted a loss. That loss didn't come from one year of lackluster 3rd party support. Wii sales took a massive nosedive 2 years ago and any software sales that weren't a 1st party title didn't move many units for about the same time.

To me "printing money" implies making money enough money to not post a loss for a long time.

Well, also consider that they've been making video games since the late 70's. If this is their first ever fiscal loss ever, then they have indeed been printing money for a long, long time.

 

[ReinWeisserRitter]

That's been the story of Nintendo lately, really. They've always just wanted to make video game platforms, stubbornly refusing to focus too much on anything else. Whatever your opinion of the Wii was, there's no arguing it was able to compete in this increasingly unfocused market.

They're still irritating me to an extent, though, because grouchy old codger that I am, I just want to play a game with a fucking controller. That's all I want! Not to gesture vaguely at the screen or scratch it up stabbing at it with a pen or my finger or whatever the fuck; just buttons. THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH BUTTONS, AND MOST (though admittedly not all) GAMES THAT ESCHEW THEM JUST FORCE US TO USE MORE COMPLICATED AND LESS ACCURATE WAYS OF REPRODUCING WHAT THE BUTTONS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO DO.

UNMITIGATED ANGST.

The PC has ironically become where most of my video games are being played, because due to the variable nature of players' systems, all of the gimmicky bullshit that is seventy five percent of modern console games isn't anywhere near that market.

 

[lord.jeff]

I still think the WiiU will lose, namely do to it's weak graphics, I'm not a graphics snug but looking at the Wii I believe that what hurt it the most the fact that it didn't even have the option to support multiplatform titles which directly led to it's tiny library that so crippled it in the long run. The WiiU may be able to offer a unique experience but if Nintendo doesn't have a plan to up it's capability when Sony and Microsoft come around, every developer is gonna jump the Wii ship again and move to a console that has the power to make what they want instead of a console with a novel gimmick. Not to mention releasing new console without Sony or Microsoft not even releasing rumors of is also gonna hurt it for two reasons that I can see, one it gives Sony and Microsoft a great chance to improve the WiiU idea and have it in the console right off the bat, which the Move and Kinetic proves both companies are willing to and capable of doing. The second reason is I think most people would rather campare consoles to make sure they have the best value I can imagine a lot of people not buying a WiiU simply becuase they want to see it stack up against the PS4 or Xbox720 first.

If that were the case developers would have switched over to the PC long ago, as its graphics potential is FAR higher than even the Nextbox and PSnext could hope to offer. In general you'll find they probably hold a similar idea to gamers in such cases where whoever has the highest graphics doesn't matter too much. The WiiU has better graphics than the current PS3 and Xbox 360 from memory, so that'll probably count as good enough for most people - seeing as worse graphics count as good enough ATM.

PC is an a different boat then consoles so I really don't count it in the argument. I'm gonna point to the Dreamcast as an example of my point great launch but it got forgotten once the PS2/gamecube/xbox came out because it had no way of competing against the higher teched consoles.

 

[Atmos Duality]

PC is an a different boat then consoles so I really don't count it in the argument. I'm gonna point to the Dreamcast as an example of my point great launch but it got forgotten once the PS2/gamecube/xbox came out because it had no way of competing against the higher teched consoles.

Eh, I'm of the opinion that the Playstation, not the PS2, Gamecube or Xbox is what killed the Dreamcast.
That and incompetence on Sega's part.

But that's another topic entirely.

Edit: For one condescending fuckhead in the audience.

 

[Darmani]

PC is an a different boat then consoles so I really don't count it in the argument. I'm gonna point to the Dreamcast as an example of my point great launch but it got forgotten once the PS2/gamecube/xbox came out because it had no way of competing against the higher teched consoles.

Eh, I'm of the opinion that the PSX, not the PS2, Gamecube or Xbox is what killed the Dreamcast.
That and incompetence on Sega's part.

But that's another topic entirely.

Actually If I may...it was because a lot of faith was lost with the prior system, Sega had bled money so were unstable (Nintendo's lost money but they have reserves-a-plenty) and the PS2 hype was really fever pitch and offering something of a singular revolution of multi-function livingroom piece at a time with no competition. DVD caught on and people craved players that were affordable. While not *quite* two for one you could justify buying a DVD player that played games AND was backwards comptaible (another MASSIVE benefity). PS2 was a real revelation in gaming tech and affordability offers.

Blu-Ray is here, yes, but well there are now $60 players a plenty not riots at limited release $99 ones ala DVD in early 00s, along with Blu-Ray drives on gaming compatible PCs which are cheaper. Also the new media hotness is streaming and interaction with such services which the WiiU *does* offer. Finally somehow even to my expectation (likely affordability) The Wii won against the massive library backwards compatible behemoth. First it was, originally, BWC itself with gamecube, then made some nice rereleases on Virtual console, finally it marketed to a neglected but primed market, regular consumers intrigued by technogagdetry that ALSO were able to use it intuitively (Wiisports and minigame collection motion control) add in some naff about making you healthy with attendant turn your living room into a party center bits, which WAS a surprising thing. It out fought the impressive higher end behemoth of PS3. So now they can effectively afford to sell one at a lower price with more stats and features.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Actually If I may...it was because a lot of faith was lost with the prior system, Sega had bled money so were unstable (Nintendo's lost money but they have reserves-a-plenty) and the PS2 hype was really fever pitch and offering something of a singular revolution of multi-function livingroom piece at a time with no competition. DVD caught on and people craved players that were affordable. While not *quite* two for one you could justify buying a DVD player that played games AND was backwards comptaible (another MASSIVE benefity). PS2 was a real revelation in gaming tech and affordability offers.

The PS2 was an overpriced DVD player when DVDs were new. That was the only selling point of the PS2 for the first year or two, because I can count on one hand the number of games I remember being worth a shit (Jedi Starfighter, and Armored Core 2).

Of course, right after that we got the Blockbuster Blitz. FF10, MGS2, GTA3. But that was about three years after the Dreamcast.

That said, I say that the PS2 was an extension of the Playstations's success due to backwards compatibility, and that's why I say the Playstation killed the Dreamcast. You lost nothing by nabbing a PS2, because you now effectively owned a Playstation.

Going any further than that would be going WAYYY off-topic.

It out fought the impressive higher end behemoth of PS3. So now they can effectively afford to sell one at a lower price with more stats and features.

That's because the Wii didn't actually fight the PS3.
The market diverged a bit, and Nintendo gobbled it up.

It found a different market entirely, while barely dipping their toes into core gaming.
The WiiU will have access to ports of yesteryear and maybe a neat family game here and there, but if they make actual gains among core-gamers I will be stunned.

The first Wii was a fad, and it bit me once. Burned fast, burned bright, then burnt out with an audible *poof* in late 2010.
I have a Wii, and it is to date, the most useless console I have owned (though the 3DS is a strong contender...but at least I didn't pay for that one).

So color me jaded, but I'm not very hopeful for the WiiU.

Edit: Because you can't make one goddamned mistake on the internet without some pedantic crusader making a scene of it.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

And people have to stop carrying this notion that Nintendo is "printing money" and "laughing to the bank". All 3 console manufacturers have lost money this generation. Nintendo actually lost twice as much money as MS this fiscal year, and after slumping 3rd party sales its not hard to see why.

This is true, but please take into account that this year was Nintendo's first ever fiscal loss. Before that, they were indeed printing money off the DS and the Wii. They were making money while the XBox and PS3 hemorrhaged it. You still have a point, that Nintendo's lack of 3rd Party support on the Wii as well as the Price Cut on the 3DS (Which resulted at them selling the units at a loss) was what caused them to loose money this year. Regardless, they were indeed "Printing Money" and "Laughing To The Bank" via 2006-2011.

I've taken this into account. I still find it hard to justify the use of phrases like that when if Nintendo really were "printing money" they would not have posted a loss. That loss didn't come from one year of lackluster 3rd party support. Wii sales took a massive nosedive 2 years ago and any software sales that weren't a 1st party title didn't move many units for about the same time.

To me "printing money" implies making money enough money to not post a loss for a long time.

Well, also consider that they've been making video games since the late 70's. If this is their first ever fiscal loss ever, then they have indeed been printing money for a long, long time.

"Printing money" and making money are two completely different things.

If Nintendo were printing money since the 70s, they would have Microsoft/Apple Inc profits at this point. I doubt that Nintendo was printing money when Sony's Playstation brand slaughtered them in sales for 2 consecutive generations.

Granted, Nintendo wasn't posting losses either, but their 3rd party software has been taking hits since the N64 for various reasons.

I'm not saying that Nintendo has been limping along by any means, but to say that they've been "printing money" is an still a bit of an exaggeration all things considered.

 

[Atmos Duality]

A console that wasn't released outside of Japan killed the Dreamcast?

*glances at US Playstation, and lack of a Dreamcast*
Yeah, I'd say it did. Only, minus that whole bit about it being Japan-only.

Playstation. PSX. Same bloody thing.

Just be glad I didn't call it PS1, because some pedantic asshole might say that it came out after the Playstation as if it fucking mattered.

It was the bad timing and rediculous price-point. I'm not sure why people try to say otherwise

Yeah, that's...half of what I said.
So, bad timing. What does that mean? Who cares? Some random nobody on the Internet told me it doesn't matter, so I shouldn't discuss it any further!

Thanks for the oversimplification.
I was worried I might actually be approaching something resembling discussion.

 

[DarthVella]

Nintendo has always been my favourite out of the three companies, for one reason. Microsoft and Sony make their money mainly from their third party games and subscription services, and are only confident enough with their consoles to up graphics capability a tiny bit, slap on a bigger number and call it "the next big thing," where Nintendo are always looking to improve their console, at a slight expense of gameplay ideas and an even bigger price in the games and characters departments. Even then, Nintendo have still managed to bring out some stunning games - Pikmin, anyone?

Nintendo might have gotten a number of things wrong recently but I applaud them for at least having the balls to try, and even if the current market is baying for more of everything that the other two are boasting, I'll be surprised if the big N go under any time soon.

 

[Atmos Duality]

No the Playstation is a console, the PSX is a different console that was released in Japan only. Don't pretend this is a petty semantic issue - the PSX was a Japanese only DVR.

Fine. I was wrong.
I'll make the changes if it pleases court.