Jimquisition: Xbox One and the Death of Ownership

[marurder]

So... you'll refuse to review new xbox games? Refuse to buy the XBox one outright? I see many crying blue murder about this, but reviewers will still buy the console(s) and exclusive titles which equate to free publicity for the manufacturers and publishers. I mean, it's their job.

 

[Yuuki]

"Oh well...there's always the Wii U?"

No Jim, there's always the PC

A PC running Microsoft Windows, I presume?

One of the weirdest things about these thread is the number of people who essentially say: "Screw Microsoft, I'm going back to a Windows PC!"

Note, I am not accusing you in particular of this hypocrisy, just observing a general trend. If Microsoft is willing to do this on the Xbone, what's to stop them doing it on Windows? Another interesting thing is the naïvety of people saying that the Xbone won't sell, just because of some negative reviews. Back in reality, people will buy this in droves. Never under-esitmate the power of a teenager to convince their parents to buy new toys. I mean, what are they going to do once the Xbone and PS4 are the standard models for sale? Buy an old PS3 or Xbox 360? Not going to happen.

If people are actually serious about reducing Microsoft and other companies' strongholds, that requires serious commitment - like learning Linux and swearing off all non-open-source software. I really don't think that's likely to occur on a large enough scale to have any significant impact.

"What's to stop them doing it on Windows". Stop them doing what? Used games haven't worked on PC for a long time, they've been using the CD-key system for over a decade now. Steam & Origin tie the game to your account and that's the end of that. Whoever tries to implement bullshit DRM gets wrecked by high piracy rates (e.g. Ubisoft) or at the least flamed to hell by the internet because PC gaming and the internet community go hand-in-hand.

Consoles offered simple/quick operation and the ability to share/trade games, something which PC's couldn't do. But now consoles are kicking their only advantages in the head - nearly every game has to install itself on the hard-drive and go through lengthy patching/updating processes, loading times have become nothing short of INSANE (it's like console gamers have simply become used to sitting through 1-2 minute loading screens), and now used games are getting hit. With all those advantages getting melted away, there's no reason to just build a solid gaming PC and roll with that.

It's consoles that seem to be going along a crazy unpredictable rollercoaster ride now, while PC's continue to happily keep doing what they've always done - just let you play your damn game, and let you use whatever controller you like, let you re-visit games from almost every era - and do all this with gorgeous sharp visuals & textures to boot.

That's why I said "there's always the PC".

 

[Annihilist]

Somewhere down the line, MS will release an Xbone package with a free telescreen.

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

I don't even know why everyone overreacts to that. Someone advertises a shitty product so i go *shrug* walk past it and buy something nice.
In this console case that "something" will be the PS4 for everyone that wants a console.

Just let them drown in a never ending pile of unsold consoles.

 

[Evil Smurf]

Jim, can I have your babies? That episode was fantastic.

 

[TheSpyIsASpyWDZ]

Holy Snip...

Right, because your not basing any of your points on opinions at all, and your applying a liberal amount of facts here too right? Right...? I mean, you had evidence to back up that people don't keep their games? I'm just saying anecdotal evidence is better than what you have, which is none. I mean, I keep my games instead of trading them in, so I can replay them. But that's just my experience so it obviously doesn't matter. I mean, your complaints about lack of evidence really is kind of strange when you have hardly any evidence for what you said. Also, what evidence do you have for Steam users not having Dial-Up, because I used Steam with Dial-Up at one point. Sure, downloads were painful, but at least I could play games.

 

[Jenny Jones]

-snip

First of all, any kind of exposure from your part can be considered promotion. I don't follow you outside of the escapist, but you do seem to have quite a sizable audience that watches your reviews.
The reason I called you a hypocrite, and yes I'm aware of its meaning, is because for the past few weeks all you rave about is how bad Microsoft, EA, Sony et al are screwing us gamers. The way I see it, since you are a game reviewer after all and not a consumer advocate, is that you seem to bite the same hand that feeds you, making a show out of it and being proud of it. In my opinion the best kind of defense against these terrible business practices is ignoring them and moving on to different, less terrible things. Provided of course you want them to stop.
But maybe you are right, I should wait until it's out and you have your way with it before criticizing you. Some negative exposure might do the trick. Maybe. I really doubt it though.

But surely the fact I *do* bite the hand that feeds me is better than me playing nice with it to get review copies. Fact is, I say shit like this, at the risk of my other job, and yes I do so proudly. I don't see it as a conflict. In fact, one episode explicitly is about loving games as art and hating them as a business. Jimquisition attacks the business, as a reviewer I discuss the art. And in games where business impacts the art, I let rip.

Frankly, my not covering the Xbox One could ONLY help Microsoft, giving it one less potentially bad review. People call for people like me to shut up and say nothing, but that's not helping ANYone.

As you said, you only watch Jimquisition, so you probably aren't qualified to tell me what I'm a hypocrite on as far as anything else I do goes. You're really assuming the worst and using it as a strawman which, in all fairness, is a logical fallacy.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

A bad review will turn off more people from a company and game in general than any amount of awareness brought to it through the review existing. Examples of this can be seen on some of the more recent epic fails from some bad companies (Simcity, Diablo 3, Mass Effect 3 choose your colour ending etc) and a lot of the time they have put people off future products.

At least I know that Jim and Yahtzee have the balls to give something shit when it deserves it even if they are very offensive while doing so and nitpick. As for most other reviewers, well I lost faith in them when they reviewed a lazy half baked cash cow and proclaimed it to the our lord and saviour. Case in point IGN rated the examples above as 70, 95 and 95, all of which have massive fundamental flaws and were outdone by their predecessors in nearly every way possible. Yet they still got...er I think I'm running away with this. Unfortunately it would be very unprofessional for Jim to do a show on his fellow reviewers and companies buying reviews and positive promotion through good reviews.

Point is they're doing more good by giving it a bad review than staying mum.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

In other words idiots, frat boys, and kids.

So then, anyone who plays a game that they enjoy and you don't must be an idiot? Man, I wish I had that world view, it'd make disagreements with people so much simpler. "*gasp* you prefer chocolate to vanilla? You must be an idiot!", "*gasp*, you prefer historical fiction to bibliographies?! You must be an idiot!" If only I could get planetary bodies to also revolve around me then I'd be all set.

To anyone who enjoys COD, and there are a lot of those people, more than the ones that enjoy pretty much any other game (as far as gamers' wallets indicate), please note that it's also sold on the ps4 which is looking to be a promising system.

On the other hand, people who only play COD have to connect to the internet anyways. So this wouldn't be such a problem for them.

That is not what I said. In future please try to take into account the person I'm quoting before quoting me. I really don't care if people like things that I don't. What I was getting at is that people who are willing to take it up the ass (metaphorically speaking) as long as they get spoon fed their favourite franchise(s) are idiots.

 

[Therumancer]

I really can't wait to start seeing some numbers on how bad this hurts them.

I don't think it will. Forums like this and the users that populate them represent a tiny minority of the gaming public. Most people do not follow developers, publishers, hardware, and similar things. Even E-famous personalities like Jim Sterling and Yahtzee reach a very small number of gamers overall. At the end of the day most people who go out there and buy an X-box will be totally unaware of these kinds of details, and by the time they find out they will already be committed.

To be honest, there is also the issue of the way games have been mainstreamed as well. Right now most gamers are not the savvy, intelligent, fringe people that they used to be. Most gamers are well... the lowest human denominator, the people the geeks and nerds stand out from. The Bros, frat boys, and even lower levels of intellectual humanity, people who were romanced by game companies and came into the hobby in large numbers at a time when things were never any other way, what is being seen here is just a little bit removed from what the gaming industry has already been doing. Most of the people gaming always had their ownership of games compromised, and are used to being nickel and dimed, and put under constant corporate surveillance. What's more rather than looking at what were largely social outcasts doing the gaming (ie nerds and geeks) catering to this mainstream means social pressure now applies and this is heavily exploited which is one of the reasons why social networking has been something forced into gaming and continually being wedged in. Right now plenty of people, even those who otherwise know better, are quite blunt about going to get an X-box because all of their friends will be doing it, and they don't want to be left out of what has become a big part of their social circle (ie getting together to play/talk about "Call Of Duty" or whatever else). Microsoft arguably already won this battle as even among the detractors we're seeing more attitudes about how "Microsoft is going to force me to endure this" and how wrong it is, than people seriously contemplating going without.

I will hopefully be proven wrong, but honestly I do not anticipate a major collapse over this, especially if Sony turns out to be just as bad, and I expect it to... as that will put people into the position of "endure, or don't do console gaming" and honestly, I doubt many people are going to give up the console gaming. It would be awesome if they did, and we saw a new rise of PC gaming, but I have my serious doubts as to that happening.

At any rate, Jim is right about pretty much everything here, not much for me to disagree with, I just don't have enough faith in humanity, or the masses of gamers that we see out there today, for this to end well. If everyone on The Escapist was to not buy an Xbox, I'd imagine the number of lost sales would be pretty much irrevelent to Microsoft, and honestly I'd imagine that even within this community tons of people will buy one.

The irony of Jim's position is that for all his railing against it, he's pretty much a guaranteed sale since his job(s) within the gaming cosm will require him to keep up with the new consoles and their games to some extent, and to use them. Think about this for a second, and then realize exactly how badly Microsoft has us all by our collective wrinklies when even it's most vocal critics among the gaming community are forced into being customers.

 

[Talvrae]

Thanks you Jim for using the Terms Cronies Capitalisms, i think it's important and good we make the difference betwen capitalisms, and cronies capitalisms who want to kill conpetitions

 

[immortalfrieza]

Holy Snip...

Right, because your not basing any of your points on opinions at all, and your applying a liberal amount of facts here too right? Right...? I mean, you had evidence to back up that people don't keep their games? I'm just saying anecdotal evidence is better than what you have, which is none. I mean, I keep my games instead of trading them in, so I can replay them. But that's just my experience so it obviously doesn't matter. I mean, your complaints about lack of evidence really is kind of strange when you have hardly any evidence for what you said. Also, what evidence do you have for Steam users not having Dial-Up, because I used Steam with Dial-Up at one point. Sure, downloads were painful, but at least I could play games.

/End argument. Something like this is about what I was going to say. Akalabeth couldn't be more obviously wrong if he drummed up a committee to come up with the worst forum arguments possible, and yet he keeps arguing.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Crony Capitalism runs the entire Western civilization, not just the gaming industry. Are people really surprised that the industry is taking this route? Really? The more lucrative and mainstream gaming becomes (and this isn't an argument to keep gaming for 'hardcore' gamers) the more BS they'll peddle to make even more money.

Not really. When other industries do crap like this they at least TRY to hide the fact that they're screwing their customers all the time, they couldn't get away with being this exploitive AND being this blatant about it, and if it's revealed to the world that they do crap like this, they quickly reverse things or end up dying out. However, the gaming industry not only treats it's customers like nothing more than walking wallets, they flaunt the fact that they do this and yet SOMEHOW get away with it. No other industry could do this and stay afloat, but the gaming industry gets a pass for some reason.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

You could call me a game reviewer, since that's my job.

And you, uh, realize reviewing a system isn't the same as promoting it, right? It's not hypocritical to review a product, especially if I go on to criticize the very practices I'm attacking. The ONLY way this would be hypocrisy would be if, when reviewing the system, I praise the very policies I find so disturbing. I don't intend to do that at all, should I end up reviewing the Xbox One.

I have to disagree with this. By buying the product, you are supporting it. If you sincerely mean what you are saying here, you would refuse to buy it, and put that stance ahead of your job as "game reviewer." It also seems that you have plenty of potential income as a commenter on the games industry without having to directly review games. Your Jimquisition episodes are very popular here, and none of them have been an actual game review.

So, I think you should put your money where your mouth is. If you disagree so vehemently with what Microsoft is doing, then you should not support them financially by buying their games, consoles, or Operating Systems. That just enables the policies you supposedly despise.

And what of your viewers/readers? Those of us who aren't game critics don't have the excuse of "it's my job." If you enjoy a Xbone game, do we get moral absolution to buy the Xbone, despite us not being employed as game critics? Apart from the financial support you would be providing Microsoft, any positive review you would give of an Xbone game would equate to promoting the platform.

I think hypocrisy is a very appropriate word to use here, because you want to use your pedestal to be outraged, while simultaneously enjoying the system without guilt.

 

[Colt47]

Maybe next week will be a positive Jimquisition! The Sony conference actually came out good!

 

[immortalfrieza]

Evidence that people don't keep their games?
HAVE YOU BEEN IN A STORE? Do you not see an ENTIRE WALL devoted to used games? Do you not see bins full of used games? Or entire stores that sell nothing but used games?

Man alive.

That's a Bandwagon fallacy. Just because there are a large number of people who DO sell their games doesn't mean that there isn't a large number of people who don't.

Good for you. Now with the xbox one, you can do EXACTLY the same thing, play your games.

As for your old games, what are you going to throw out your 360? I have a Sega Master System, I don't complain that I can't play those cartridges on my 360. I didn't complain that I couldn't play Atari games on my Master System.

And yes, the EARLY 360s were notably unreliable, the later models are not. The 360 will be around for a long time. And if at some point it happens to die out, then I'm sure some guy is gonna throw together an emulator and you can play them on PC or the popular ones will get rereleased in cheap bundles or whatnot.

You're accusing people of using anecdotal evidence while also doing the same. Just because YOU don't give a rat's ass about backwards compatibility doesn't mean that there's no value in it. Consoles break, discs get cracked or smudged or whatever, cartridges fall apart, maybe people want to be able to sell their old consoles to pay for new ones, or just because their taking up too much room. Sure, maybe someday someone will emulate the 360 or whatever and you'll be able to play it on your computer, or maybe like with the original Xbox it'll turn out to be all but impossible for even the ORIGINAL DEVELOPERS to be able to effectively emulate it or maybe like with the Wii it'll have a control scheme that's difficult if not impossible to replicate on a computer.

 

[Colt47]

You could call me a game reviewer, since that's my job.

And you, uh, realize reviewing a system isn't the same as promoting it, right? It's not hypocritical to review a product, especially if I go on to criticize the very practices I'm attacking. The ONLY way this would be hypocrisy would be if, when reviewing the system, I praise the very policies I find so disturbing. I don't intend to do that at all, should I end up reviewing the Xbox One.

I have to disagree with this. By buying the product, you are supporting it. If you sincerely mean what you are saying here, you would refuse to buy it, and put that stance ahead of your job as "game reviewer." It also seems that you have plenty of potential income as a commenter on the games industry without having to directly review games. Your Jimquisition episodes are very popular here, and none of them have been an actual game review.

So, I think you should put your money where your mouth is. If you disagree so vehemently with what Microsoft is doing, then you should not support them financially by buying their games, consoles, or Operating Systems. That just enables the policies you supposedly despise.

And what of your viewers/readers? Those of us who aren't game critics don't have the excuse of "it's my job." If you enjoy a Xbone game, do we get moral absolution to buy the Xbone, despite us not being employed as game critics? Apart from the financial support you would be providing Microsoft, any positive review you would give of an Xbone game would equate to promoting the platform.

I think hypocrisy is a very appropriate word to use here, because you want to use your pedestal to be outraged, while simultaneously enjoying the system without guilt.

If someone worked on cars and ended up needing a wrench from a manufacturer that he disliked in order to service a customers car, do you think it's fair to tell the customer "sorry, can't fix your car because I don't like the wrench manufacturer?" I sure as heck don't. Further more, we just had a good finish to the day with E3, can we not argue about something that ultimately comes off as petty?

 

[immortalfrieza]

You could call me a game reviewer, since that's my job.

And you, uh, realize reviewing a system isn't the same as promoting it, right? It's not hypocritical to review a product, especially if I go on to criticize the very practices I'm attacking. The ONLY way this would be hypocrisy would be if, when reviewing the system, I praise the very policies I find so disturbing. I don't intend to do that at all, should I end up reviewing the Xbox One.

I have to disagree with this. By buying the product, you are supporting it. If you sincerely mean what you are saying here, you would refuse to buy it, and put that stance ahead of your job as "game reviewer." It also seems that you have plenty of potential income as a commenter on the games industry without having to directly review games. Your Jimquisition episodes are very popular here, and none of them have been an actual game review.

So, I think you should put your money where your mouth is. If you disagree so vehemently with what Microsoft is doing, then you should not support them financially by buying their games, consoles, or Operating Systems. That just enables the policies you supposedly despise.

And what of your viewers/readers? Those of us who aren't game critics don't have the excuse of "it's my job." If you enjoy a Xbone game, do we get moral absolution to buy the Xbone, despite us not being employed as game critics? Apart from the financial support you would be providing Microsoft, any positive review you would give of an Xbone game would equate to promoting the platform.

I think hypocrisy is a very appropriate word to use here, because you want to use your pedestal to be outraged, while simultaneously enjoying the system without guilt.

By putting out negative reviews of their system and games, Jim is causing people to not buy into their B.S., which far outweighs the "support" that he's giving by buying the system and it's games to accurately give out these reviews. Jim is HURTING these practices he's against by rallying against them far more than he's helping them by buying one measly console and a few games, and he's getting paid for it in the bargin. It's a win win for him and consumers.

 

[Roxor]

Would be nice to see the gaming press to show a bit of solidarity to the consumer by not covering the system and its exclusives upon release.

Having it die a pitiful death from lack of coverage is the best way to say fuck you to Microsoft and their new xbox.

I'll do my part in not buying the system, but alas me and my kind only make a small percentage of xbox customers.

It would be nice to see games reviewers adopt the position of "It's on the Xbox One. 0/10", but that'll never happen.

As for me, I'm not going to buy it. Why would I when I already have a decent PC?

 

[Aardvaarkman]

If someone worked on cars and ended up needing a wrench from a manufacturer that he disliked in order to service a customers car, do you think it's fair to tell the customer "sorry, can't fix your car because I don't like the wrench manufacturer?"

Car mechanics don't tend to publish public podcasts ranting against the evils of wrench manufacturers. Also, we don't pay Jim Sterling to fix our cars (or our games).

 

[Aardvaarkman]

By putting out negative reviews of their system and games, Jim is causing people to not buy into their B.S., which far outweighs the "support" that he's giving by buying the system and it's games to accurately give out these reviews. Jim is HURTING these practices he's against by rallying against them far more than he's helping them by buying one measly console and a few games, and he's getting paid for it in the bargin. It's a win win for him and consumers.

I don't agree. He would have far more negative impact by publicly stating that he refuses to the buy the system or review any games for it. And what happens when a good game for the Xbone comes out? That's bound to happen, because surely all of the games released for it can't be bad.

Ignoring something is much more damaging than giving it attention, even if it's negative.