Joss Whedon Is Still Bitter About Firefly

[Sproingy]

Wow so much negativity here

I think Joss nailed it when he said he likes "genre" stuff. He's able to do so many different things that appeal to different ppl. That's why you've got fans of Buffy and Angel and then fans of Firefly etcetera and then the Joss lovers who love it all. I think for he's work you need to find what you like and go with it. If you're not into the whole distopian sci fi ideal then no you won't like Dollhouse so much, don't like westerns or space adventure sci fi then Firefly's not for you etc.

I personally am a fan and I hope he does well on Avengers. It's a biiig movie to stuff up! But he is a comics fan so he knows the content and what the core fans are like as well as hopefully what the wider audience is going to want. I wish him the best!!

 

[Nick Pirce]

The "conspiracy theory" explanation doesn't make much sense, frankly: in an industry where studios and companies are trying to get as much viewership as possible, why would they be "scared" of increased viewership and fan base?

If nothing else, the viewership sank dismally especially with Enterprise: from over 12 million at its debut to 6 million by the end of the first season, and averaging 2-3 million over the next three seasons whilst on a downhill slope. The bottom line was that the show was a ratings disaster (yes, there were many who enjoyed it, but even more who didn't) and Paramount is first and foremost a business, with accountabilities to its shareholders. Fans were lucky to even get a fourth season of Enterprise (which was the best season for me), but even that was too late to save the show, and the franchise in general

 

[Sproingy]

The "conspiracy theory" explanation doesn't make much sense, frankly: in an industry where studios and companies are trying to get as much viewership as possible, why would they be "scared" of increased viewership and fan base?

If nothing else, the viewership sank dismally especially with Enterprise: from over 12 million at its debut to 6 million by the end of the first season, and averaging 2-3 million over the next three seasons whilst on a downhill slope. The bottom line was that the show was a ratings disaster (yes, there were many who enjoyed it, but even more who didn't) and Paramount is first and foremost a business, with accountabilities to its shareholders. Fans were lucky to even get a fourth season of Enterprise (which was the best season for me), but even that was too late to save the show, and the franchise in general

Same with Dollhouse. It's been said enough that FOX gave it a second season only because it didn't want to deal with the fallout from the fans if they cancelled another Joss Whedon show after season. Look at Chuck. Same deal. TV is a business. As much as that sucks if they aren't making a profit they aren't going to keep the show. DVD sales just don't cut it anymore. It's the advertising money they want!

 

[Frank_Sinatra_]

Firefly is 8 years old
you people seriously need to move the fuck on.
(it wasn't even that good of a show anyway)

I hope you put a flame shield on for that, but I agree with you.

Whether or not Whedon is bitter about it I won't feel any sympathy for him.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
He doesn't learn, he just doesn't learn.

 

[ultimasupersaiyan]

I know I was pissed about what happened to Firefly. I really liked it and wish he'd take it to another studio or just do it on the net. I just think Fox doesn't like his stuff other then Buffy and Angel and they didn't go on as long as expected. Still I look forward to see how the Avengers movie turns out.

 

[Nimzar]

Same with Dollhouse. It's been said enough that FOX gave it a second season only because it didn't want to deal with the fallout from the fans if they cancelled another Joss Whedon show after season. Look at Chuck. Same deal. TV is a business. As much as that sucks if they aren't making a profit they aren't going to keep the show. DVD sales just don't cut it anymore. It's the advertising money they want!

I get this but it also seems like this model is falling apart in the face of modern technology.

With DVRs, Hulu, and Netflix (when the show gets a DVD), people avoid advertisements. This didn't used to be possible. I think the industry needs to find a way of dealing with this shift.

 

[Grey_Focks]

Firefly never really got a chance. It could have turned out great, or not. I just know it's cancellation led to "Serenity" being made, and I loved that movie, so it's really a win-win for me.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

He doesn't learn, he just doesn't learn.

I was watching an episode of Dollhouse the other week and a thought occured to me;

Joss Whedon is a Doll programmed by the Fox execs for them to smack around whenever they want to feel like men.

 

[Sproingy]

Same with Dollhouse. It's been said enough that FOX gave it a second season only because it didn't want to deal with the fallout from the fans if they cancelled another Joss Whedon show after season. Look at Chuck. Same deal. TV is a business. As much as that sucks if they aren't making a profit they aren't going to keep the show. DVD sales just don't cut it anymore. It's the advertising money they want!

I get this but it also seems like this model is falling apart in the face of modern technology.

With DVRs, Hulu, and Netflix (when the show gets a DVD), people avoid advertisements. This didn't used to be possible. I think the industry needs to find a way of dealing with this shift.

I totally agree with you. I'm not American and for us we get these shows late sometimes over a year after air. Dollhouse for example isn't even out for us. Hulu doesn't allow us to access it because we aren't US Citizens and the only way we can get our hands on these shows legally is to wait or buy the DVD's from Amazon. To be honest most of the ppl I know find other means of getting the shows as they air in the states.

This is just one reason why I feel that not only is this thinking outdated but that the entire regioning system is outdated. In a world where you can find information, data and resources at the click of a button studios need to stop trying to hold all the shows back and make them available worldwide or they will lose money and viewership to p2p networks. If they looked at what was being downloaded every week they'd get an indication of the audience worldwide. Then they would find a way to tap into that...

At least I wish that were the case...

He doesn't learn, he just doesn't learn.

I was watching an episode of Dollhouse the other week and a thought occured to me;

Joss Whedon is a Doll programmed by the Fox execs for them to smack around whenever they want to feel like men.

That cracked me up. I remember thinking WHY JOSS WHY, at comic con 2 years ago when he announced he was back at FOX and had a "Deal" with them....bulls&^%

 

[duchaked]

Firefly haters here are unusually insensitive and rude...

(I'm actually not a fan but I'm interested in what Whedon has to offer)

 

[Generic_Dave]

I'm pissed off too. We have film after film of Twilight and no-one could be arsed having another go at Dollhouse or Firefly...surely there are more of us than there are of THEM!

 

[Nick Pirce]

Reminds me how fans raised some $3M+ in an attempt to save the cancelled Star Trek: Enterprise, yet studio just not interested.

 

[MattAn24]

I totally agree with you. I'm not American and for us we get these shows late sometimes over a year after air. Dollhouse for example isn't even out for us. Hulu doesn't allow us to access it because we aren't US Citizens and the only way we can get our hands on these shows legally is to wait or buy the DVD's from Amazon. To be honest most of the ppl I know find other means of getting the shows as they air in the states.

....You're kidding, right? Never heard of a little thing called Foxtel or Austar? No? FOX8 aired Dollhouse Season 1 AND 2 (plus both Epitaphs at season 1/2 end, might I add..) aired via satellite pretty neatly on par with America's airing of it.
Stargate Universe is another example. SciFiTV Australia has aired SGU via satellite -practically the day after the US. We've literally caught up to them in episodes and now they air simultaneously. Only thing we really haven't picked up yet is Caprica, the family drama prequel to Battlestar Galactica, starring Alessandra Torresani. They're about a season ahead in the States, SciFiTV haven't aired it yet.

It helps to actually do the research before claiming that we don't get shows. Look at Nathan Fillion's Castle on Channel Seven! They may be a few episodes behind the US (or possibly the previous season), but we've definitely picked it up!

Anyway, I'll admit, I wasn't so much a -fanatic- of Whedon's shows until.. Well.. Dollhouse. I never got to catch Firefly, so I missed the hype. I've made the effort to track them down though. Sure, I watched Buffy and Angel.. Just not religiously. I was so immersed in the Dollhouse canon and world (and Dichen Lachman is amazing <3) that I have gone back and caught the seasons of Buffy/Angel on SciFi. Sadly, Firefly/Serenity haven't been on there for a while, but I swear I'll track 'em down.

People seem to claim that Firefly and Dollhouse failed because of Joss.. How so? No, really, I want you to give me a logical reason why it was his fault. FOX manipulated the episodes and demanded he do things THEIR way. He's the Conan O'Brien (by that I mean I love both of their work, too) of the genre TV world. Oh, and they failed..? How? Is that why there are DVD's still flying off the shelves and online stores and screenings Serenity (and Firefly, in some places) ARE STILL GOING ON TODAY?

They can't have failed if they're still being talked about and watched today. They just weren't given a proper chance to develop. Dollhouse Season 2 was honestly some of the BEST television I've watched (compared to the absolute tripe on TV's lately, that's not saying much). Also, speaking of that.. Joss Whedon picks the most AMAZING cast for his shows. Harry Lennix is brilliant as Boyd Langton, Dichen Lachman -owned- her role as Sierra (and then promptly KICKED ULTIMATE ASS in NCIS:LA as a street racer), Enver Gjokaj (Victor, as well as completely and utterly mimicking Fran Kranz's Topher right down to the mannerisms and speech, he's THAT good..) and Fran Kranz (Topher) are masterminds in their own right as well. No one catch Enver's episode of Lie To Me "React to Contact"? Honestly, I never liked watching NCIS or Lie To Me, etc.. Those sort of cop shows.. Never interested me. But watching these guys on their guest episodes.. They were brilliant.

It's probably also why I FREAKING LOVE Castle. When I watch that, I just can't help but think "Huh.. Captain Hammer's hung up Mal Reynold's browncoat and is now solving crimes as an author." He plays that role so well too.. Again, I don't normally like cop dramas, etc. Law & Order.. Eh..

 

[Sproingy]

I totally agree with you. I'm not American and for us we get these shows late sometimes over a year after air. Dollhouse for example isn't even out for us. Hulu doesn't allow us to access it because we aren't US Citizens and the only way we can get our hands on these shows legally is to wait or buy the DVD's from Amazon. To be honest most of the ppl I know find other means of getting the shows as they air in the states.

....You're kidding, right? Never heard of a little thing called Foxtel or Austar? No? FOX8 aired Dollhouse Season 1 AND 2 (plus both Epitaphs at season 1/2 end, might I add..) aired via satellite pretty neatly on par with America's airing of it.
Stargate Universe is another example. SciFiTV Australia has aired SGU via satellite -practically the day after the US. We've literally caught up to them in episodes and now they air simultaneously. Only thing we really haven't picked up yet is Caprica, the family drama prequel to Battlestar Galactica, starring Alessandra Torresani. They're about a season ahead in the States, SciFiTV haven't aired it yet.

Sorry should have clarified. Dollhouse isn't on DVD here in Australia. And look at the DVD releases for OZ or Eureka and what about new Sci Fi releases like Warehouse 13? I bought Dollhouse from the states and had it a Supanova for Eliza and Dichen to sign and everyone around me was wondering how I'd gotten it. I didn't even realise. To be fair there is plenty of unreleased stuff on DVD here that is out in the states and even Europe. As someone who has an extensive DVD and Blu Ray collection I feel I know a bit about that topic especially for Sci Fi stuff


As for foxtel and Austar a lot of us just can't afford it and for a lot can't justify the expense for a few shows you can get "elsewhere". That's why we have free to air in this country though right? So we have the choice to buy or not. We get stuff on the new HD channels sure but nothing ever sticks. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

Caprica not being aired kinda sucks though. That's the one show I'd get cable for at this point still I have already seen it at this point

Completely agree on the Dollhouse front though. Looved that show and yes Dichen was AWESOME!!

 

[tkioz]

Hell I'm still bitter about Firefly, I watched it when it first was airing (not mentioning how I got my hands on it )... but Dollhouse... that got a longer run then it deserved, horrible shitty show.

 

[mattaui]

It might have been that by the time I saw Firefly I had legions of people telling me how it was going to be the best science fiction I'd ever seen. It was terribly disappointing, if not what I would call bad. Not that I'm a fan of much of anything else he's done, either, so I suppose I'm consistent in that regard.

I do feel bad that he and his properties were slighted and mistreated, that's a shame no matter what.

 

[Cherry Cola]

I'm not really that mad about Firefly.

Sure, it's a great series with even greater potential, but I'd rather have it go away early than overstaying its welcome.

 

[I Max95]

firefly was awesome and it was unjustly cut down
damn you fox DAMN YOU!
bring it back and it would be awesome

its just sad that most of the cast cant come back either from in-movie death or a crowded schedule

 

[Lono Shrugged]

I much prefer 1 enjoyable treasured season to dig out every year or so than a 4 year run that becomes stale and self-destructs.

I call it the Tyrell school of Television. The candle that burns twice as bright burns for half as long, and Fiefly's candle has burned bright indeed....

 

[Flunk]

I didn't even see Firefly until after it was cancelled, I've seen 3 episodes in total. Now, there is a small minority of VERY VOCAL Firefly fans out on the web. But I am not one of them. The show is cheesy, lame, B-movie style trashy Sci-Fi. That type of show is a dime a dozen.

I can completely see why Fox cancelled it, bad ratings. No one watched it because it only appeals to the small minority of cheesy, lame, B-movie fans and that's definitely not enough to make Fox take notice.