Journalist Tells Industry To Grow Up

[TsunamiWombat]

Her remarks are completely invalid. Games are no less sexist or juvenile than movies, music and television, and if she wants to throw out Citizen Kane and the Beatles, I'll counter with Psychonauts and Super Mario Bros. Cherry-picking the gems isn't somehow more valid or relevant based on the sea of shit from which you pluck them.

It sounds to me like the real problem here isn't games but her obvious issues with "guy culture." I wonder how she feels about "chick culture."

Agree. I feel she has SOME legitimate complaints but now more then ever, very deep games are being made. And it's important to remember- how many movies are deep classics? Now how many "BLANK" movie!" Movies have been made? Scary Movie 1-4. Disaster Movie. Superhero Movie. Epic Fantasy Movie. I'm missing some probably. No one argue any of these were any good- Scary Movie was a light hearted lampoon at best, the rest are self perpetuating disasters of stupidity and tits.

In the end it sounds, and I hate to sound sexist, like some bitchy lady who doesn't like men. Sorry, thats what I hear.

THAT BEING SAID!

I do feel the industry needs to grow up, but not necessarily in the 'tits n guns' area (which is on the reduction as we become more and more self referential and acknolweding) but rather, in the area of breaking formula's and concepts, as well as preconcieved notions. The industry is changing in it's business models, the EA dive and subsequent shifts is hard evidence of that.

 

[The Bandit]

ITT: Children whine because someone insulted their passion.

FACT: She's bringing attention to the majority of games. The argument "not all games are like this" isn't a sufficient defense. It's a decent one, sure, but it doesn't change the fact that most games feature big muscular men and petite women who run and shoot in high heels. It's ridiculous. If it doesn't bother you, that's fine. RE5 featured both of these things and I still found killing zombies to be fun. But there's nothing wrong with this woman wanting more from the video game industry. Even a game like Half-Life, a game that is essentially the same from every other shooter (you kill tons of aliens), can be respected because Gordon isn't a walking tank of muscle and Alyx doesn't look like a porn star.

 

[Brotherofwill]

Back when they were around the same age, film was on the eve of Citizen Kane, and rock n' roll already had The Beatles and Bob Dylan. Well, I'd argue that 60's Dylan was as much of a stunted adolescent as Cliff Bleszinski, but that's an argument for another day.

Wait a minute..you just compared Bob Dylan with Cliffy B? No matter which way you spin that it's like comparing god to a plague-rat... just wow.

I do kind of know where you are coming from with the stunnted adolescence of Dylan's earlier work, but it actually worked in his favor.

Here is something funny about Cliffy B that I found on the Rolling Stone website:

ENEMIES SAY: "CliffyB is such a fag," posted one anonymous gamer online.

KEY QUOTE: "If I had a nickel for every time I was called a fag on the Internet, I could retire."

Anyway, back to topic:

Games really need to grow up. I don't think a certain immaturity is a problem, but the general standard of games and the content of games is so piss poor it almost hurts. Since the key audience is so young I doubt we can ever make a real meaningful progress in this department. The only thing left to hope for are the few gems that come out of the hands of Schafer and the like. Let's have some more games about human psychology and the exploration of the mind, shall we?

 

[ShadowKirby]

Its interactivity is its primary purpose and the thing that defines it. For games to "grow up" they have to adjust their interactivity to be grown up, not their graphics or story.

Good point but I would say, cause I'm that kind of guy, that story, but more precisely narrativity, in video games should grow along interactivity to provide a deeper "interactive/narrative" experience. You know, interactive storytelling with emergent and embedded narratives. And I still think video games need to find their own critical vocabulary to better themselves and give us meaningful experiences. From that, we can decide what can be considered as "art" in this medium.

Also, I use her rant (and let's not forget it was a rant panel, this tend to get exaggerated on there) to talk about the maturity of the "devoted" culture around video games (i.e. us). Escapist isn't that bad when it comes to its community's maturity level but I feel like a good percentage of the "devoted" culture is totally immature and really adolescent, in the "you're 13" sense, if you see what I mean. Here's a recent example:

Molyneux tells at his GDC panels about "creative process called "experiments" where anybody in the company can take a stab at developing a game mechanic or a piece of technology to be used in a future Lionhead game" and how one of those experiment was a tech demo, The Room, made by Mark Healey, Alex Evans and Dave Smith, 3 of the 4 guys that would go on to make Media Molecule and take the idea behind that demo to make LBP. Now, a guy on Kotaku [http://kotaku.com/5188682/missed-opportunities-lionhead-could-have-made-littlebigplanet#c], a site with some very good writers and contributers, come out with this story but give it a spin to make it seem like Molyneux decided that the basic idea behind LBP was not good and wasn't going to sell. You now have 46 posts, with the exception of maybe 10 or so, that are either fanboyism :"VanFinale: And that's why I prefer my PS3 to my 360. " or pure insults " Armuun: overblown windbag piece of human garbage. every freaking game he makes is a pretentious piece of shit anyway."

Honestly, it's not hard to find that level of immaturity, or even worse, everywhere around the "devoted" culture of gaming, and that is sad. Hell, I can't even count the number of people that called her a ***** on the Destructoid post about this. No really mature. You can have arguments but damn, drop the name calling....... idiots.

 

[ElephantGuts]

Though I mostly stay away from those sorts of games, I do think it's true that a large percentage of games do sort of cater to this "guy culture." Of course it's close-minded to say that all games are like that, but unfortunately those games are what a lot of people will see.

 

[Yegargeburble]

Wait a minute!
So she's saying music and movies are deep and intellectual, but games aren't?

What movies is she watching? What modern music is she listening to?
I'd say all three markets are all equally plagued with crap and 'man culture'.

Modern games like Mass Effect, Bioshock, and even Fallout 3 offer violence to be sure, but not in a 'space marine with huge muscles with a busty barely dressed broad by my side' sort of way. Especially Mass Effect, which offers some of the best character interactions I've ever seen.
Even 'old' games like Baldur's Gate, Fallout 1 and 2, System shock (Seeing a pattern here?), and, heck, even Splinter Cell offer far better stories, emotions, suspense, and thrills than 90% of the modern cinema!

And don't even get me started on a lot of modern music!

I won't deny that much of the industry is certainly in this rut, but every media industry is! It isn't unique to games, and if she's thinking it is then she really needs to take the rosey glasses off when she buys her next movie ticket or CD.

EDIT: DANG it Sewblon! Ninja'd!

Ninja'd or not, that was well said. I agree wholeheartedly. I personally avoid watching many movies because I know I will hate most of them.

My opinion:

My favorite game right now (the original Condemned) doesn't rely on what Chaplin doesn't like to see (massive guys with massive guns / stickwomen with giant breasts). Instead, it felt like playing an awesome detective movie with some supernatural elements thrown in. So while I see her point, I am nowhere near agreeing with her because most of my favorite games rely on atmosphere and good writing (Bioshock is another example, but that has been said already).

She really should play some different games if she hates the ones focused on "guy culture."

 

[Disembodied_Dave]

Her remarks are completely invalid. Games are no less sexist or juvenile than movies, music and television, and if she wants to throw out Citizen Kane and the Beatles, I'll counter with Psychonauts and Super Mario Bros. Cherry-picking the gems isn't somehow more valid or relevant based on the sea of shit from which you pluck them.

It sounds to me like the real problem here isn't games but her obvious issues with "guy culture." I wonder how she feels about "chick culture."

This is what I was going to say.

Ultimately Games are influenced by Movies, TV, comics, and all that stuff. And this isn't new. Look at just about any ancient culture and you see muscle bound male protagonists and sexy femme fatales.
Of course all that doesn't make it right. Just once I'd love to see a average looking or even homely female protagonist that saves the world in a popular game. Just not as a gimmick of course. heh

 

[Bofus Teefus]

I read an article that went a bit more in depth to what she said, and agree with some of it in an odd way. A point that she seemed to dance around is that we're playing the personal issues (in game form) of the developers. Maybe we are- so what? It's fun.

 

[Raven28256]

You must admit, she has a very valid point. We can point out exceptions until the end of time, but the fact is that in the game industry, these are the overwhelming minority. For every BioShock there are ten Gears of War clones that rely solely on shock violence to sell a mediocre experience. For every Alyx we have 173 female characters running around in a bikini and thong while fighting aliens.

Yes, other forms of media do it to, but with gaming the number of "guy culture" stuff as she puts it is in a much, much higher ratio compared to the mature stuff than in most other industries. I mean, the occasional bit of fanservice is one thing, but it seems that characters like Ivy or the DOA chicks are ALL DEVELOPERS MAKE. It is pretty bad when characters like Alyx and Faith are praised primarily because they are among the only non-sexualized female characters in the whole fucking industry. Really, the sheer number of "fanservice girls" our industry has is pretty bad.

Meanwhile, games with generic or weak plots are the overwhelming vast majority of games. It is sad that games like Halo and even Gears of War 2 are regularly praised for having above average plots by reviewers. THAT says a lot about how bare-bottom the standards are for stories in this medium.

But, at the same time, I agree that games should be FUN. I love to play Gears of War even though it really is immature, juvenile, and has a terrible plot of stereotypical 'roid users killing monsters. But really, it is completely possible to have a fun game while still having a good plot. The two are too often separated.

Finally, I can't place the blame solely on developers. After all, if we didn't eat up this poorly written or mildly sexist games then developers wouldn't crank them out so much.

 

[Tiamat666]

I think Heather Chaplin should be wearing a kinky superheroine outfit showing lot's of skin and be carrying a huge sword.

 

[Falien]

You go, girl!

 

[Rolling 20]

I play games to escape and not have to be mature 25/8 so she can shut it

That is why they are called "GAMES" anything else is either called a "Lecture" or "Life"

So what if games have 500lb men who can take bullets to the face like I eat shreddies? So what if women are sometimes portrayed as prancing nymphetes?

That is the purpose of games, to live out fantasies or just to indulge in teabagging noobs and formost for ENJOYMENT -_-

I agree. I'm a journalist myself and I absolutely respect the bollocks it takes for her to say that. Although, at the same time I despise her for understanding the target audience of the gaming industry (which she does for all those who claim she doesn't get it...you people are stupid).

Games are supposed to be an escape from reality. You WANT to feel like you're built like 10 brick s$%thouses and are carving corridors through hordes of enemies and you WANT your female protagonists to be slim, attractive women. YES, ATTRACTIVE! I'm sorry that it doesn't truly represent 'real life'....but that's the point....IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO.

Chaplin claims the game industry holds too much immaturity....it's not immaturity....it's just escapism.....

 

[Doug]

I, too, agree with her to an extent. But she's only addressing certain companies. There are plenty of successful franchises that don't rely on guns+boobs=$$$. Civilization, just to name one. However, companies like Rockstar need to open an ear to a rant like that.

Rockstar don't rely on 'Guns + Boobs = $$$'. For starters, they did try and change the formula with GTA IV, and look what happens - enough bitching to fill a tanker and sink it. Not all of it unjustified, but still, alot of people seem to have just gone 'wot!?!?!11!? not like gta 3? HATEHATEHATEHAHTE'.

Anywho, I think Saints Row 2 is more 'Guns + Boobs + grossly unlikeable arsehole characters == $$$'.

Of course, Dead or Alive is 'Boobs + cat fights == $$$'

Anywho, I think she's sort of right, but she ignores the fact that their are non gun-shooty-booby games. Its like looking at TV and going 'My, there's alot of crap on TV these days - therefore, there is no good stuff at all!' ignoring, say, Heroes, or Battlestar, or any TV program you actually like.

 

[Chaos Marine]

I agree with her insofar as how sometimes it can seem embarrassing when you're talking to someone about a game and next thing you see a woman/girl either barely dressed or dressed to clearly look like some kind of super slut and particularly if the friend is a woman.

As for gunning down aliens? Hell no, suffer not the xeno to live.

 

[zifnabxar]

You could argue that the switch from those genres has started with casual games, but the crossover isn't that major and the more mainstream games are still dominated by the "guy games."

"More mainstream"? Last I checked the "casual" gamers ARE the mainstream.

Haha, I can't argue that. Correction duly noted and agreed with

 

[Doug]

As for gunning down aliens? Hell no, suffer not the xeno to live.

Expect the Vorigant. Cus those guys are cool!

 

[Hunde Des Krieg]

What's wrong with manly power fantasies? It's not like there are many other ways we can still be masculine, what's wrong with pretending in a virtual world.

 

[Drake the Dragonheart]

While she may have some valid points, and we all know the industry is originality strapped these days, like others have already said, she does seem to be taking a small part of the medium and blowing it up to apply to all of the medium. Also, she doesn't seem to explain in great detail what "guy culture" is, unless she is trying to say that "guy culture" is nothing but massive gun toting men and well endowed women in swimsuits.

 

[Jabbawocky]

Yes well, some games may be immature but every form of media has its equivelant.