JRPG's : I don't get it !!

[Sylocat]

Rule #674 of The Escapist: "There are only two kinds of RPGs in the world: Japanese RPGs and "Western" RPGs, meaning all RPGs not made in Japan."

Rule #674-a of The Escapist: "The only JRPGs in existence are Final Fantasy VII, VIII, X, X-2 and XII. Japan has made no other RPGs at any time in history."

Rule #674-b of The Escapist: "The reason JRPGs lack variety is because the Japanese are a bunch of xenophobic dicks, not because the only JRPGs you've ever heard of are a few entries in one single franchise."

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Rule #674 of The Escapist: "There are only two kinds of RPGs in the world: Japanese RPGs and "Western" RPGs, meaning all RPGs not made in Japan."

Rule #674-a of The Escapist: "The only JRPGs in existence are Final Fantasy VII, VIII, X, X-2 and XII. Japan has made no other RPGs at any time in history."

Rule #674-b of The Escapist: "The reason JRPGs lack variety is because the Japanese are a bunch of xenophobic dicks, not because the only JRPGs you've ever heard of are a few entries in one single franchise."

That does seem to be a good distillation on the broad opinion on this.

Personally I judge on a case by case basis myself, I've loved and hated plenty of games in both camps.

RPG's I've loved...
Final Fantasy's 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, Tactics. Xenosaga 3, Chrono Trigger, Lost Odyssey, Dragon Quest 8, Baldurs Gate 2, Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout 1-3, Planescape: Torment.

RPG's I've disliked...
Tales of Legandia, Golden Sun, Xenosaga 2, Diablo 2 (So sue me), Fallout Tactics, Arcanum, Never Winter Nights, Blue Dragon (for wasted potential), Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, World of Warcraft.

See plenty from all camps but overall I definately LIKE more RPG's than I dislike, but there are a few that really rub me the wrong way, usually it has something to do with the story, in rare cases it has something to do with the gameplay (I'm looking at you WoW and Diablo!), but rarely is it such a broad and baseless hatred as to attack simply BECAUSE.

 

[Rodger]

I don't get it either. Every now and then I get an rpg craving which results in the purchase of Golden Sun, Lord of the Rings: the Third Age, or Blue Dragon, which results in the additon of five pounds and the loss of a month of my life. Then the games are forgotten, because, objectively, they suck. Turn-based combat is stupid, and the only thing that's fun about it is the particle effect explosions onscreen, seeing a god beat up some poor sap on your behalf, etc.

In terms of story, jrpgs are so stagnant, static, and laughable that there is simply no metaphor to accurately describe it. There's a hero, a sidekick, an antihero, an idiot, a stoic, a scarily un-subtle comic relief character, and, above all, a naive high pitched girl wearing as close to nothing as humanly possible. This. Almost. Never. Changes.

There are never original reactions to plot devices. There are never unpredictable plot devices. There is more bad acting than there are pixels. I would even go so far as to say that the best jrpgs are the ones without voice acting, because at least then you can project appropriate emotions onto the text you read. Good god I have to stop this I'm pissing myself off.

Wait, what?

First off, if you don't like turn-based combat, then why do you play games with turn-based combat? That'd be like if I picked up Halo 3, played through it until the end, and then complained about how much time I wasted on the game because I don't like first person shooters.

Second, what JRPG's are we talking about here anyway? There's no shortage of Action JRPG's, and your list of characters sounds more inline with a Hollywood movie than a JRPG cast of characters. I can probably count on one hand the number of 'sidekicks' in JRPG's, and comedy relief characters are rarely what they seem. Just take Cait Sith for instance, since I'm sure everyone knows that one. He was really a stuffed toy being remote controlled by a Shinra employee the whole time. Does that cast of characters even apply to the series you specifically mentioned?

Actually, come to think of it, everything you said sounds more appropriate to hollywood movies. Never original reactions to plot devices? Never unpredictable plot devices? Bad acting? I'll agree many of them tend to get bad voice actors when they're ported over, with Chaos Wars winning the prize for that since the guy running the company that ported it apparently decided to just grab a bunch of his friends to do the voices, but thats the fault of the companies porting the games. But the rest, have any specific examples? Because I'm finding all of that a bit hard to swallow...

Okay fine. I'll flame myself and reveal my narrow experience. The only jrpgs I've played are the Golden Sun series, the Final Fantasy series, Blue Dragon, the PokeMon series, and to a lesser extent, Earthbound.

Golden Sun was fine until I stopped being 12. The Final Fantasy series sucks so hard, so often in terms of characters I don't want to smother to death that it makes me want to smother myself. Blue Dragon was fun. Why? Because the terrible awful stupid story characters and voice acting hit me as absurdly funny. Then I got bored because the playable classes lost any regard for differentiation as I got near the end and dropped it before I could finish. The Poke'Mon series was wonderful in concept and perfected in its third iteration, bu on the whole is spotty in quality and redundant as Hell with utterly interchangable characters all around. Earthbound was hilarious but the gameplay can fuck itself.

There.

Some of the most recognized and lauded games of the genre.

I hate them all because they sucked. I get cravings for this sort of thing every now and then, but that doesn't mean I think any of it can be called good. More wrpgs dodge so much of the shit that poooooors out of jrpgs like an ocean, so why would I go anywhere else?

You...didn't really address what I was asking. You just gave a not-very-informative description of the JRPG's you've played without really giving specific examples of the points you made earlier. I was looking for specific examples of the bad acting, of the scantily-clad naive female, of the pointless comic relief character, and specifically from the games you've played. I'm asking you to back up your statements, in other words. What was so stupid about Blue Dragon's story/characters? Why did Golden Sun stop being a good game when you turned 12? Can you actually describe specific Final Fantasy characters and what specifically about them you don't like?

 

[T-Bone24]

you're right america only came out with some the best music, movies, & technology for the last 150 years

No they didn't come out with the best technology. America didn't come out with television, that's the Scottish, didn't come out with the telephone, that's the French/Italians, and arguably they did not come out with the best music and movies in the past "150" years.

Take into account all the world, please, and research wild claims before you post. Trust me, it will make everyone happy.

 

[mattttherman3]

I will give you the over dramatic character, but there are not to many games that don't have those. The turn based JRPGs usually do suck(my opinion) but the ones that arn't turn based are great.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

I will give you the over dramatic character, but there are not to many games that don't have those. The turn based JRPGs usually do suck(my opinion) but the ones that arn't turn based are great.

Ah yes, baseless hate of Turn Based, so common around here.

 

[Briainer]

I was a fan of JRPGs the last couple of years, but after a while it really becomes awfully repetitiv.
Last week I started Eternal Sonata, which is praised as being one of the only good JRPGs the 360 offers and yesterday I got Condemned 2 and its just so much more fun to play.
While Eternal Sonata is the same shit as every Final fantasy game (except for the cool combatsystem)Condemned is a stunning experience that sucks you in and doesnt let you go for hours.
So I guess,to me JRPGs really lost their appeal.

I'd recommend condemned 1 its much better and totally different

 

[mattttherman3]

I will give you the over dramatic character, but there are not to many games that don't have those. The turn based JRPGs usually do suck(my opinion) but the ones that arn't turn based are great.

Ah yes, baseless hate of Turn Based, so common around here.

Not quite, I have played plenty of turn based games, The Last Remnant, Lost Odyssey, Enchanted Arms, Paper Mario, Mario RPG, and let me tell you something, I can never play more than a few hours without getting bored out of my mind. So my hate for them is not "baseless" as you say.

By the way the biggest problem with Lost Odyssey? The fact that "Imortal" characters DIE IN COMBAT.(Yes I know they ressurect after 2 turns but they shouldn't die at all, but that would just make the game too easy.)

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

I will give you the over dramatic character, but there are not to many games that don't have those. The turn based JRPGs usually do suck(my opinion) but the ones that arn't turn based are great.

Ah yes, baseless hate of Turn Based, so common around here.

Not quite, I have played plenty of turn based games, The Last Remnant, Lost Odyssey, Enchanted Arms, Paper Mario, Mario RPG, and let me tell you something, I can never play more than a few hours without getting bored out of my mind. So my hate for them is not "baseless" as you say.

That's what pisses me off, just because YOU get bored, doesn't mean it sucks. Turn Based has value, some of us like it, yet some people will simply say "Nope, it bores me, I'm an ADD twat who can't do anything that doesn't enrapture me every second, it sucks."

That's why I call it baseless, WHY does turn based combat suck? It's not supposed to be an "Action" game, it's a fnuckin RPG, it's about stats, equipment management and ability selection, not action.

I love Turn Based Combat, yet you rarely here me go on and on about how much Action Games suck because they're too twitchy now do you?

 

[TheTygerfire]

They're fun.

 

[Aries_Split]

Culture? America? Sir, please do not make me laugh. It has been proved that America has no culture, in 1776 when you threw perfectly good tea into a harbour. No cultured individual does that- it's the commercial equivalent of drawing a giant cock on pharmacy walls in spraypaint.

Tea that was taxed unlawfully and without representation in parliament on our behalf.

Unless you were being sarcastic, in which case, lol.

 

[Matsamu]

The point of JRPG's is giving nerds and non-nerds alike the feeling that we could do those things to someone else. No i can't split my sword into a bunch of different pieces while hovering mid-air over some random enemy, but i CAN control the dude who has that ability (if you didn't get the reference, it's Cloud's Omnislash in FF7). Regardless, people enjoy JRPG's cuz it IS non-realistic, but it gives one a feeling of accomplishment when you finish a game like that. And besides, you can't just label ALL Japanese games as completely unrealistic, because it's almost saying that american games are...the opposite. Which they aren't.

Games suspend belief and allow you to control something outside of your own life. If you want realistic, stop playing video games in general and go do something epic yourself.

 

[Graustein]

I hate them all because they sucked. I get cravings for this sort of thing every now and then, but that doesn't mean I think any of it can be called good. More wrpgs dodge so much of the shit that poooooors out of jrpgs like an ocean, so why would I go anywhere else?

You don't hate them because they sucked. You hate them because they cater to tastes other than your own, therefore you don't enjoy them, and because like 90% of the world's population you're so self-centered that any game that you don't like must objectively suck, you say it sucks.

 

[The Black Adder]

There are plenty of good Japanese RPG games. And most of them are games that you can only play if you can read Japanese. The first Wild Arms and Vandal Hearts games were really good. But the best game was probably the first two Suikoden games.

 

[Altorin]

JRPGs aren't for everyone.

You don't have to like them.

I don't personally care for them, my mom loves them.

I got her Persona 4 for her 51st birthday and she's happy as a clam with it. I think that it's pretty stupid, but as long as she likes it, that's terrific.

Don't try to ask "why should I like these games?"

because if you don't know why you should like them, then they're not for you.

 

[Syntax Error]

In terms of story, jrpgs are so stagnant, static, and laughable that there is simply no metaphor to accurately describe it. There's a hero, a sidekick, an antihero, an idiot, a stoic, a scarily un-subtle comic relief character, and, above all, a naive high pitched girl wearing as close to nothing as humanly possible. This. Almost. Never. Changes.

You obviously haven't payed attention to Lost Odyssey. And they're called tropes. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage]

Dark Cloud 2 was a PS2 game and absolutely wonderful. Go pick it up immediately.

I think the only thing that really links JRPGs together (other than being Japanese, of course) is that that many of them feature turn-based combat, which is definitely an acquired taste. Personally, I enjoy the chance to thoughtfully plan out my attack and defense, and I love distributing all the gear I get amongst my crew, but for lots of folks, turn-based combat is deadly slow.

Final Fantasy is definitely not the yardstick by which to measure all JRPGs.

It's not called Dark Cloud 2 though, I think it's Dark Chronicle. Which is a sorry fact that the Japanese have been using the word "Chronicle" for RPG's even before it became kewl.

As for the OP: Have you tried Persona 3/4? They're both for the PS2. And they're great games (though personally, I've only played 3). Just don't let the emo hairstyle of the hero of P3 fool you.

EDIT:

I got her Persona 4 for her 51st birthday and she's happy as a clam with it. I think that it's pretty stupid, but as long as she likes it, that's terrific.

Your mom is AWESOME!

 

[Random Argument Man]

Rule #674-a of The Escapist: "The only JRPGs in existence are Final Fantasy VII, VIII, X, X-2 and XII. Japan has made no other RPGs at any time in history."

O....k, I think someone doesn't like the before VII style in the FF series. By the way, this ain't a rule.