Judge Awards Sony With Visitor IDs of PS3 Hacker's Website

[JDKJ]

There's a perfectly legitimate reason for the information: it goes to proofing whether or hot the Hotz' posting of the information furthered the circumvention of an access control mechanism for the purposes of infringing copyrighted materials, an element of the DMCA that Sony is required to prove in order to prevail. Seeking evidence to prove to your case is always a legitimate need. In fact, it's usually a requirement of prevailing.

God, I addressed that in that very post. Jailbreaking, which is what they even called it, is not illegal under the DMCA (according to the courts). Proof that he distributed it does not go to the benefit of proving a DMCA violation.

Jailbreaking an iPhone was found not to further piracy, and therefore not violative of the DMCA, under the related and particular set of factual circumstances. That does not necessarily mean that jailbreaking a PS3 under an entirely different set of factual circumstances is also not a violation of the DMCA. An apple plus an orange does not equal two apples. And, because the DMCA makes it illegal to "traffic" or "share" information or any part thereof that would enable circumvention for the purpose of copyright infringement and that Hotz did indeed traffic in or share such information is part of Sony's allegations against him and are allegations necessary to prevail on their case, then proving Hotz' distribution of the information is part of Sony's burden of proof. And allows them to obtain a subpoena with which they can go off in search of that proof.

 

[FlashHero]

Over stepping their bounds that judge..how much sony bribe the judge to let all that info go.

 

[Illyasviel]

Over stepping their bounds that judge..how much sony bribe the judge to let all that info go.

Its a subpeona. That's what judges do. And Sony is doing what they're supposed to be doing: jumping through judicial system hoops. As opposed to the alternative which involves a man in a black trench coat, some type of firearm, a bullet and DEAD people.

 

[JDKJ]

i am confused about this case do we rent or license the console from sony or do we own it because it seems like sony wants to have control of our personal property and that frightens me quite a bit

The software and the firmware in the console is licensed to you for use. You do not own it. Sony does.

Law>EULA. Also has legal precedent. Sorry.

Can you cite to a law greater than Sony's EULA that says it isn't licensed but, rather, sold to you outright? Don't waste your time looking. It's a rhetorical question. There is none.

And a precedent is only a mandatory and binding authority in a case with facts exactly like the facts of the precedent-setting case. The more the facts of the subsequent case differ from those of the precedent-setting case, is the less precedential value the precedent bears. Sorry.

 

[JDKJ]

geez people this only being used as EVIDENCE. Their not even doing anything about the people they have info on (yet). And even if they did, they would be in the right, its their service and they should do the best to protect it from thieves and people ruining games due to hacks.

Oh and it has already hurt sony, ala the killzone 3 leak. So yeah kinda an issue they should deal with.

The playstation 3 is not a service. It is property owned by the person who bought it, and that person has the right to do whatever the Hell they want with it.

This is absolutely retarded.

What may be truly "retarded" is failing to read the part of Sony's EULA where they state that they are licensing the software and firmware in the PS3 to the user and reserving all rights of ownership thereto and then claiming that you own the software and firmware in a PS3 and can do whatever you want with it because you own it.

 

[Eldarion]

geez people this only being used as EVIDENCE. Their not even doing anything about the people they have info on (yet). And even if they did, they would be in the right, its their service and they should do the best to protect it from thieves and people ruining games due to hacks.

Oh and it has already hurt sony, ala the killzone 3 leak. So yeah kinda an issue they should deal with.

The playstation 3 is not a service. It is property owned by the person who bought it, and that person has the right to do whatever the Hell they want with it.

This is absolutely retarded.

So that online thing they run, you know MULTIPLAYER, they don't have any responsiblity to keep it cheat free? ok you run along and tell sony that.

Keeping thier system cheat free does not entitle them to personal info of anyone who happened to visit this site.

Sorry that that one guy in resistance is flyhacking or whatever, there are more adult issues being discussed here.

 

[JDKJ]

I wouldn't worry much about Mr. Hotz and this recent event. After all, according to Greg Tito, "PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend." Yeah. Right.

If Hotz knows what's good for him, he'll cry "Uncle!" before Sony beats his ass to death. 'Cause ain't no way he's winning this one, in my opinion. Sony has him by the short hairs.

 

[Illyasviel]

Keeping thier system cheat free does not entitle them to personal info of anyone who happened to visit this site.

Sorry that that one guy in resistance is flyhacking or whatever, there are more adult issues being discussed here.

Sony isn't requesting information any more personal than what is already being gathered about you every single second you spend online, by no less than Google, advertised Defendars of the Internets. In fact, the very fact that Sony is requesting this information tells you that they weren't gathering your personal information ( in this manner ) in the first place because otherwise, they wouldn't even need to request it.

Everybody is doing their job correctly.

Sony is embroiled in a legal case. The case hasn't been thrown out so its valid. They need to gather evidence. They submitted a formal request for a subpeona, a move entirely legal and in line with the judicial process. The judge granted Sony the requested subpeona because Sony provided a valid reason. If the judge refused Sony's request, the judge would have been committing a felony for obstructing due process. Sony still hasn't won the case yet ( burden of proof required ) and hasn't done anything illegal like giving GeoHot the bump, a "legal action" that is still common in many parts of the world.

 

[JDKJ]

geez people this only being used as EVIDENCE. Their not even doing anything about the people they have info on (yet). And even if they did, they would be in the right, its their service and they should do the best to protect it from thieves and people ruining games due to hacks.

Oh and it has already hurt sony, ala the killzone 3 leak. So yeah kinda an issue they should deal with.

The playstation 3 is not a service. It is property owned by the person who bought it, and that person has the right to do whatever the Hell they want with it.

This is absolutely retarded.

So that online thing they run, you know MULTIPLAYER, they don't have any responsiblity to keep it cheat free? ok you run along and tell sony that.

Keeping thier system cheat free does not entitle them to personal info of anyone who happened to visit this site.

Sorry that that one guy in resistance is flyhacking or whatever, there are more adult issues being discussed here.

More adult then them trying to maintain their service? More important than them doing what they promised they would provide on the box
OH LOOK CIRCULAR LOGIC
considering everyone got in a hissy about the linux being removed (despite the fact that it was a very small minority who actually used the damn feature) you would think they would equally get in a hissy about people ruining honest customers online experiences (especially with that premium online they were planning on setting up), So yes finding the people responsible for repeated breaks is kind of important to them. And if they have to get information (which most people give out all the time without realising it anyway) to get it, than so be it.

I love it when people claim "But he only did it to restore the OSOther feature so he run Linux!" and don't even bother doing the *wink-wink* thing. Like they believe that bullshit. And think I'm gonna believe it, too. C'mon, man.

And that's the part that's gonna come back and bite him in his ass. The fact that 99.9% of those who would be interested in obtaining information on how to crack a PS3 aren't interested in doing so in order to run Linux. They're interested in the information so they can play pirated games on their PS3 in violation of the DMCA. And if Sony can prove this as a matter of fact (which I suspect won't be a very difficult trick), put a fork in Hotz.

 

[Eldarion]

geez people this only being used as EVIDENCE. Their not even doing anything about the people they have info on (yet). And even if they did, they would be in the right, its their service and they should do the best to protect it from thieves and people ruining games due to hacks.

Oh and it has already hurt sony, ala the killzone 3 leak. So yeah kinda an issue they should deal with.

The playstation 3 is not a service. It is property owned by the person who bought it, and that person has the right to do whatever the Hell they want with it.

This is absolutely retarded.

So that online thing they run, you know MULTIPLAYER, they don't have any responsiblity to keep it cheat free? ok you run along and tell sony that.

Keeping thier system cheat free does not entitle them to personal info of anyone who happened to visit this site.

Sorry that that one guy in resistance is flyhacking or whatever, there are more adult issues being discussed here.

More adult then them trying to maintain their service? More important than them doing what they promised they would provide on the box
OH LOOK CIRCULAR LOGIC

You might want to count to ten, take a deep breath or something.

considering everyone got in a hissy about the linux being removed (despite the fact that it was a very small minority who actually used the damn feature) you would think they would equally get in a hissy about people ruining honest customers online experiences (especially with that premium online they were planning on setting up), So yes finding the people responsible for repeated breaks is kind of important to them. And if they have to get information (which most people give out all the time without realising it anyway) to get it, than so be it.

Yhea, because someone hacking your online shooters is more important than the fact that they have no right to any of this information. Maintaining their service does not mean they get access to any personal info they want.

But whatever, your just gonna degrade into hyperbole and all-caps again right?

 

[manythings]

Yes, those two things are exactly equal. Like how walking by a school is the same as attempting have sex with children.

And the straw man makes an early appearance.

How do they differ? The man involved in watching an accident does nothing, merely comments and moves on. The man watching the Youtube video doesn't have to hack his PS3 to be involved in the case, he merely has to watch the video. Sony's contention is that a crime was committed, and in order to get their preferred venue (California), they have to prove that the citizens of California were involved.

Frankly, you should all get used to this kind of jurisdictional wrangling, since it's only going to get more common in the future.[/quote]

Then by watching the news I've become involved in the fighting in Libya? The attempted murder in Dublin? Every sporting event I wasn't really paying attention to? There is a point at which contact is so far removed and passive that it's irrelevant. How many of those people didn't watch the video all the way through? Will this result in a simple check or a witch hunt into the consumer base? It's a grey area, sure, but it's being treated as black and white. Even the slightest knowledge of the thing is potentially damning and that kind of thinking is very dangerous. Will even saying the name "GeoHot" make me a key player in this?

 

[Kopikatsu]

This makes me wonder what would happen if a company/organization managed to get ahold of 4Chan's users info. They do do an awful lot of vigilantism (Among other, less wholesome things), which is illegal.

It would be fun to watch the situation that developed from that. Oh well. Can always dream...

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

geez people this only being used as EVIDENCE. Their not even doing anything about the people they have info on (yet). And even if they did, they would be in the right, its their service and they should do the best to protect it from thieves and people ruining games due to hacks.

Oh and it has already hurt sony, ala the killzone 3 leak. So yeah kinda an issue they should deal with.

The playstation 3 is not a service. It is property owned by the person who bought it, and that person has the right to do whatever the Hell they want with it.

This is absolutely retarded.

So that online thing they run, you know MULTIPLAYER, they don't have any responsiblity to keep it cheat free? ok you run along and tell sony that.

The case is about Geohot fighting for the right to do what he wants with his property, i.e HIS playstation 3.

Playstation Network is a private service; this ruling will have no effect on the ability to ban cheaters or not.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

I feel just a little bit safer on the internet...

 

[JDKJ]

geez people this only being used as EVIDENCE. Their not even doing anything about the people they have info on (yet). And even if they did, they would be in the right, its their service and they should do the best to protect it from thieves and people ruining games due to hacks.

Oh and it has already hurt sony, ala the killzone 3 leak. So yeah kinda an issue they should deal with.

The playstation 3 is not a service. It is property owned by the person who bought it, and that person has the right to do whatever the Hell they want with it.

This is absolutely retarded.

So that online thing they run, you know MULTIPLAYER, they don't have any responsiblity to keep it cheat free? ok you run along and tell sony that.

Keeping thier system cheat free does not entitle them to personal info of anyone who happened to visit this site.

Sorry that that one guy in resistance is flyhacking or whatever, there are more adult issues being discussed here.

More adult then them trying to maintain their service? More important than them doing what they promised they would provide on the box
OH LOOK CIRCULAR LOGIC

You might want to count to ten, take a deep breath or something.

considering everyone got in a hissy about the linux being removed (despite the fact that it was a very small minority who actually used the damn feature) you would think they would equally get in a hissy about people ruining honest customers online experiences (especially with that premium online they were planning on setting up), So yes finding the people responsible for repeated breaks is kind of important to them. And if they have to get information (which most people give out all the time without realising it anyway) to get it, than so be it.

Yhea, because someone hacking your online shooters is more important than the fact that they have no right to any of this information. Maintaining their service does not mean they get access to any personal info they want.

But whatever, your just gonna degrade into hyperbole and all-caps again right?

They most certainly have a right to subpoena those who they believe may be in possession of information that helps them prove their case. And they're not entitled to "any" information they want. They're only entitled to information relevant to the case. And if the Googles and YouTubes and Twitters upon which they serve their subpoenas believe Sony is not entitled to the information within their possession, then they can -- and probably -- will file a motion to quash the subpoena. And the Court will determine what information they can and can't obtain.

Why are all these people getting up in arms and rushing the castle with their torches and pitchforks as if this kinda stuff doesn't happen everyday in countless courthouses across the United States. It's called "discovery" and there's hardly a civil lawsuit that doesn't involve some discovery. Usually, if you can't discover information you need to win your case, then you might as well not bring your case.