Just figured out why I like Fallout 3 more than New Vegas

[Dosbilliam]

And obviously some people prefer the wild west, I can't begrudge them that; especially with better gameplay systems in New Vegas.

But for me, I can't help but like the utterly destroyed civilization feeling of 3.

But that's my opinion, what do you think?

Having spent more time on the Steam New Vegas forums than probably everyone else in this thread combined, this is pretty much the only "objective" reason to prefer 3. Compared to New Vegas, it's about the only thing 3 does well.

The atmosphere in FO3 would make sense if it was just a few decades after the bombs, but two hundred years? We went from horse-and-carts to landing on the damn moon in that time period. Are you seriously suggesting in that same length of time, no-one in the Capital Wasteland has yet worked out how to not live life like a hobo?

In their defense,they didn't have our opportunities and we didn't have to contend with radiation and giant mutant creatures, including the Deathclaw. I'm not saying the state of things makes total sense for two centuries but it stands to reason that DC would be a complete shit show compared to anywhere else, seeing as it is a capital and it would stand to reason that it would be hit ten times harder than elsewhere. The area also lacked a lot in the way of a helping hand, the Enclave was there to beat down anybody who tried to help and the Brotherhood wasn't much better with it's technophiliac ways, you end up with two battling factions which rarely if ever benefits the territory they turn into a battle-zone. It reminds me of two separate and distinct cultures, nobody can travel across the country effectively anymore, so you end up with a more advanced western civilization not far from one looking like a war torn middle eastern nation.

Actually, the Enclave didn't arrive there (going by Fallout 3's lore) until after the events of Fallout 2, which would have given them about 160 years to rebuild. (2 starts in 2241, 3 starts in 2277)

 

[Saviordd1]

And obviously some people prefer the wild west, I can't begrudge them that; especially with better gameplay systems in New Vegas.

But for me, I can't help but like the utterly destroyed civilization feeling of 3.

But that's my opinion, what do you think?

Having spent more time on the Steam New Vegas forums than probably everyone else in this thread combined, this is pretty much the only "objective" reason to prefer 3. Compared to New Vegas, it's about the only thing 3 does well.

Just no.

I mean I'm glad you agree and all but no.

Spending time on the New Vegas forums of steam doesn't really put you in a position of authority.

And almost nothing in gaming is Objective (Except for like, stability). Some people could hate all the things new vegas does gameplay wise.

 

[Zenn3k]

AH GOD, RUN FOR COVER; IT'S A NEW VEGAS v. FALLOUT 3 THREAD!

Wait, no, stop; it's not!
...
Don't give me that look.
...
I PROMISE this isn't a New Vegas v. Fallout 3 thread.
...
Well be that way.
Dick.

ANYWAY
For a while now I've tried to figure out exactly why I like Fallout 3 better. I mean New Vegas has more guns, more in common with the original Fallouts, more characters, mostly better characters, etc. Yet Fallout 3 was my Fallout port of call, not New Vegas; why?

Blaming the bugs was to easy, especially since several hundred patches and user made patches has fixed most of the problems.

And "Fuck Obsidian" is a bad argument.

So what is it?

Well today while roaming the New York State Museum (Which is a nice place to go for anyone who lives around Albany BTW.) it hit me rather suddenly.

It's the atmosphere. I don't mean atmosphere as in the greenish lighting of 3 versus the organgish of New Vegas. I mean how the game really feels to wander in.

Fallout 3 makes you feel like you're truly treading through a destroyed civilization. Like the hundreds of dead civilizations before it this one died suddenly and left its remains behind. You walk amongst the ashes of a true super power whose history is quickly being lost to all but a bare few people.

Compare to New Vegas, who shows civilization on the rise. Empires are being built, lines drawn, old world comforts returning, etc.

Fallout 3 is post Sherman Atlanta and New Vegas is Reconstruction.
Fallout 3 is walking through a radioactive Pompeii and New Vegas is the wild west.


And obviously some people prefer the wild west, I can't begrudge them that; especially with better gameplay systems in New Vegas.

But for me, I can't help but like the utterly destroyed civilization feeling of 3.

But that's my opinion, what do you think?

I completely agree with you that FO3 is more "destroyed" and more "atmospheric" to the whole "post-war" life of Fallout, 100%.

However, thats actually part of the reason I don't like FO3 over NV myself. Its been 200 years. FO3 SHOULDN'T feel like the bombs fell 3 months ago, these people SHOULD be rebuilding by now, there should be towns and at least some form of local government and order, especially with the number of people running around. Why have the people of Megaton not done ANYTHING in the last X years they've been around?

Vegas felt like what Fallout would be after 200 years. Remember, in FO1 its only been 84 years. Things should still have been in rough shape, its probably only been some 30 years or less since people started to really settle down and be able to even work the land at all. 200 years after the bombs, DC shouldn't still be this wild and untamed.

Really it was an issue with setting and time that broke FO3 for me and really made me not enjoy it as much over time...that and the fact it was simply too easy, 1HKing Deathclaws at level 15 was laughable easy...New Vegas didn't pull punches with enemy difficulty, which I found more compelling.

Anyway, your reason is sound for what you wanted to experience...but to me, it felt wrong given the world time. Had they just set it at the same time as FO1...say 84-90 years after the bombs, it would have made more sense and been a better game.

 

[white_wolf]

I like FO3 because the plot makes more sense then FO4 I can fallow a girl who looking for her dad but not a guy or girl who just got shot in the head and lost all good sense and decided to go get the guy who shot them because they wanted their crappy chip back for no reason other then to look at it. I also hated the music in 4 I spent the whole game wishing for three dog and felt the game wasn't nearly as fun, Vegas was disappointing.

How far did you get in the game? The platinum chip is extremely important, and the Courier wasn't going after it because they want to look at it. Hell, the reason you pursue them is totally up to you, from revenge to wanting to get your package back and complete the job. This is even lampshaded at one point by Mr. New Vegas. The platinum chip is just a MacGuffin to propel you into the plot.

Which is the problem sure the chip became important later as more of an after thought. You can reason whatever you like as to why your guy or gal is going to get it back but the plot doesn't and that's an issue its simply I got shot now I need to get it player fill in why its important not the game. To me its seems coincidental the chip is useful otherwise the developers wouldn't have had you chase it down but they could've handled it alot better.

For instance if the hero just got beaten and robbed and their motive is to get the chip make the delivery so he/she and their sister can get into their equivalent of Ten Penny Tower so they can live safely and eat well then we've got a reason to go get the chip that the plot can explain but also give a relateable reason why my hero then isn't some twisted freak who can't take the idea that a bullet to the head is a very good stay the heck away warning sign not to go get the guy who shot them.

 

[SajuukKhar]

FO3 SHOULDN'T feel like the bombs fell 3 months ago, these people SHOULD be rebuilding by now, there should be towns and at least some form of local government and order, especially with the number of people running around. Why have the people of Megaton not done ANYTHING in the last X years they've been around?

Every time someone asks this question I wonder if they understand how civilization works....

The single most fundamental necessity for any large scale civilization is clean water, this is a fundamental truth throughout history, without water, there can be no civilization, and, this is the whole point of Fallout 3's main quest.

The whole point of the game was that humanity has been trying to rebuild, they built new cities, established new trade routes, and done what they could in terms of ranching/hunting/foraging for food, but were held back to a small state by their lack of large amount of clean water.

That...... and the story was also one giant Jesus allegory.

Vegas felt like what Fallout would be after 200 years. Remember, in FO1 its only been 84 years. Things should still have been in rough shape, its probably only been some 30 years or less since people started to really settle down and be able to even work the land at all. 200 years after the bombs, DC shouldn't still be this wild and untamed.

What funny is that, just 7 year prior to the start of New Vegas, 4 years before the start of Fallout 3 proper, with you escaping the Vault, the Mojave wasteland was even less developed then the C.W., everyone was tribals with no cities, no farms, no trade routes, nothing, until House and the NCR built everything for them.

Kinda funny really, even with fresh water.... the citizen of the Mojave were able to do less then the C.W. did.

 

[Zenn3k]

FO3 SHOULDN'T feel like the bombs fell 3 months ago, these people SHOULD be rebuilding by now, there should be towns and at least some form of local government and order, especially with the number of people running around. Why have the people of Megaton not done ANYTHING in the last X years they've been around?

Every time someone asks this question I wonder if they understand how civilization works....

The single most fundamental necessity for any large scale civilization is clean water, this is a fundamental truth throughout history, without water, there can be no civilization.

And, this is the whole point of Fallout 3's main quest. The whole point of the game was that humanity has been trying to rebuild, they built new cities, established new trade routes, and done what they could in terms of ranching/hunting/foraging for food, but were held back to a small state by their lack of large amount of clean water.

That...... and the story was also one giant Jesus allegory.

Thats a fine point...in the context of the game, however, its been proven that the radioactivity in the water would have dissipated within 200 years (much less in fact), which means the entire "clean the water" plot itself is actually completely unnecessary.

So you have a flawed premise as the only validation for a flawed broken civilization that takes place in the far future...for no other reason then to be able reference things from the first 2 games, when really they should have tried to make the Capitol Wasteland its OWN thing instead of a bad re-hash of old things that don't actually make sense.

Basically, everything is solved by making the game take place closer to the time to bombs fell, the ENTIRE plot of FO3 falls to tiny pieces simply because its set 200 years after, which again only happens so they can tie parts of it to FO1 and 2.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Thats a fine point...in the context of the game, however, its been proven that the radioactivity in the water would have dissipated within 200 years (much less in fact), which means the entire "clean the water" plot itself is actually completely unnecessary.

So you have a flawed premise as the only validation for a flawed broken civilization that takes place in the far future...for no other reason then to be able reference things from the first 2 games, when really they should have tried to make the Capitol Wasteland its OWN thing instead of a bad re-hash of old things that don't actually make sense.

Basically, everything is solved by making the game take place closer to the time to bombs fell, the ENTIRE plot of FO3 falls to tiny pieces simply because its set 200 years after, which again only happens so they can tie parts of it to FO1 and 2.

Actually, its has only been proven that real world radiation would dissipate long before 200 years past.

Fallout radiation works quite differently, hence ghouls, and mutant animals.

The entire "BUT THE RADIATION WOULD BE GONE!" argument is based on the entirely flawed premise that Fallout radiation works the same as the real world, which it doesn't, and never has.

 

[Dosbilliam]

And obviously some people prefer the wild west, I can't begrudge them that; especially with better gameplay systems in New Vegas.

But for me, I can't help but like the utterly destroyed civilization feeling of 3.

But that's my opinion, what do you think?

Having spent more time on the Steam New Vegas forums than probably everyone else in this thread combined, this is pretty much the only "objective" reason to prefer 3. Compared to New Vegas, it's about the only thing 3 does well.

Just no.

I mean I'm glad you agree and all but no.

Spending time on the New Vegas forums of steam doesn't really put you in a position of authority.

And almost nothing in gaming is Objective (Except for like, stability). Some people could hate all the things new vegas does gameplay wise.

I don't recall saying I was in a "position of authority." Also, the quotes around "objective" should have told you I wasn't using the exact definition, instead opting for something along the lines of logical. Thanks for assuming you knew exactly what I meant, though. -_-

 

[Right Hook]

Actually, the Enclave didn't arrive there (going by Fallout 3's lore) until after the events of Fallout 2, which would have given them about 160 years to rebuild. (2 starts in 2241, 3 starts in 2277)

Ugh, haha. You called me out on the part of my post I was unsure of, I even wondered to myself whether or not the Enclave had been there the whole time, I'd assumed yes but apparently am wrong. Thanks for clearing that up, it's been a while since I've played FO3.

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

I feel the same. I played both games like 3 times cause I fucking love them but Fallout 3 will always be my favorite. New Vegas just had too much faffing about. So many "run here, give person X five Y's" quests all done within the city of New Vegas so only occasional skirmishes with weak enemies. The dlc doesn't have that but dlc isn't the whole game. Fallout 3 had much more worldly feel and the map had so many unique environments and it made the wasteland seem really spread out, not to mention the random encounters that kept things lively.

Anyway, that's mostly what I like in a game, exploration and good atmosphere. I get why people like Vegas better but interesting characters alone couldn't carry the main campaign for me

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

It doesn't make sense in the Fallout timeline and lore though. F3 is a fine post apocalypse game, and if that's what they wanted to do that's what they should have done. But tacking it onto the Fallout label is ridiculous. The atmosphere makes no sense.

People who were annihilated by nuclear warheads don't build towns around them, they are afraid of them. And if they aren't then don't portray them like they are just normal people, portray them as the freaking lunatics they rightly are.

It makes sense that civilization would be putting itself back together. That's the atmosphere of a society 200 years past its collapse. People should be starting to form nations again. They shouldn't be dinking around with like 20 people in an entire town still scavenging cans from the local supermarket like that somehow makes sense.

 

[SajuukKhar]

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/105836-fallout-new-vegas-and-dlc-post-mortem-interview-part-one.html

Lastly, with regards to the DLCs, I believe Ulysses is correct, a new framework of civilization is the only solution for the Mojave and the Legion and NCR are self-destructive institutions (the Legion is more a slow burn than NCR is) and both should be cleansed with fire. ~ Chris Avellone

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/105885-fallout-new-vegas-and-dlc-post-mortem-interview-part-two.html

Lastly, I wanted to nuke the Fallout world to reset things. NCR's getting a bit big, and it's making things too civilized. Lonesome Road was a way of resetting the culture clock. ~ Chris Avellone

I love Chris so much. He knows how to keep Fallout fun and interesting.

Hopefully, Bethesda uses the opportunities presented in Lonesome Road to their fullest sometime in the future, even if it is a brief mention of the west getting nuked by someone who traveled east to find a better place or something.

That or they can use the tunneler invasion Ulysses hinted at to destroy the Mojave/NCR/Legion. Either way is good, as long as both burn.

 

[Abomination]

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/105836-fallout-new-vegas-and-dlc-post-mortem-interview-part-one.html

Lastly, with regards to the DLCs, I believe Ulysses is correct, a new framework of civilization is the only solution for the Mojave and the Legion and NCR are self-destructive institutions (the Legion is more a slow burn than NCR is) and both should be cleansed with fire. ~ Chris Avellone

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/105885-fallout-new-vegas-and-dlc-post-mortem-interview-part-two.html

Lastly, I wanted to nuke the Fallout world to reset things. NCR's getting a bit big, and it's making things too civilized. Lonesome Road was a way of resetting the culture clock. ~ Chris Avellone

I love Chris so much. He knows how to keep Fallout fun and interesting.

Hopefully, Bethesda uses the opportunities presented in Lonesome Road to their fullest sometime in the future, even if it is a brief mention of the west getting nuked by someone who traveled east to find a better place or something.

That or they can use the tunneler invasion Ulysses hinted at to destroy the Mojave/NCR/Legion. Either way is good, as long as both burn.

House is the only non-self-destructive "government" out there but I can't see them making it canon that House wins.

But I am looking forward to an NCR civil war or economic collapse. I think it's supposed to be an example as to how if you keep trying to do things the old way you're gonna make the old way's mistakes... whoever built the world for New Vegas deserves a pat on the back. Almost every society/settlement is so believeable.

 

[SajuukKhar]

House is the only non-self-destructive "government" out there but I can't see them making it canon that House wins.

But I am looking forward to an NCR civil war or economic collapse. I think it's supposed to be an example as to how if you keep trying to do things the old way you're gonna make the old way's mistakes... whoever built the world for New Vegas deserves a pat on the back. Almost every society/settlement is so believeable.

House is TOTALLY self destructive because his entire philosophy is to walk all over anyone who doesn't automatically bow down to his childish whims. See everyone in New Vegas except the three families.

House has no future, because he doesn't care about anyone beyond how much he can exploit them for money, so he can play doll house with New Vegas, and live in a nostalgia based delusion of how Vegas was pre-war, and treating people like that will only cause them to rebel one day when they cant take it anymore.

House is Gatsby except semi-immortal, a man who can't really accept that you cant turn back time and regain what you lost, and Gatsby never wins.

 

[Abomination]

House is the only non-self-destructive "government" out there but I can't see them making it canon that House wins.

But I am looking forward to an NCR civil war or economic collapse. I think it's supposed to be an example as to how if you keep trying to do things the old way you're gonna make the old way's mistakes... whoever built the world for New Vegas deserves a pat on the back. Almost every society/settlement is so believeable.

House is TOTALLY self destructive because his entire philosophy is to walk all over anyone who doesn't automatically bow down to his childish whims. See everyone in New Vegas except the three families.

House has no future, because he doesn't care about anyone beyond how much he can exploit them for money, so he can play doll house with New Vegas, and live in a nostalgia based delusion of how Vegas was pre-war, and treating people like that will only cause them to rebel one day when they cant take it anymore.

House is Gatsby except semi-immortal, a man who can't really accept that you cant turn back time and regain what you lost, and Gatsby never wins.

No, there are 2 scenarios for House at the end of New Vegas.

One where he dies.

The other where he has a fully powered Hoover Dam and an army of Securotron robots. He has no internal politics and a quasi-invulnerable army and power base. His empire could exist without people in it and no force from the outside has the power to topple him.

While it might not progress or become stagnant it can NOT become self-destructive.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/105836-fallout-new-vegas-and-dlc-post-mortem-interview-part-one.html

Lastly, with regards to the DLCs, I believe Ulysses is correct, a new framework of civilization is the only solution for the Mojave and the Legion and NCR are self-destructive institutions (the Legion is more a slow burn than NCR is) and both should be cleansed with fire. ~ Chris Avellone

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/105885-fallout-new-vegas-and-dlc-post-mortem-interview-part-two.html

Lastly, I wanted to nuke the Fallout world to reset things. NCR's getting a bit big, and it's making things too civilized. Lonesome Road was a way of resetting the culture clock. ~ Chris Avellone

I love Chris so much. He knows how to keep Fallout fun and interesting.

Hopefully, Bethesda uses the opportunities presented in Lonesome Road to their fullest sometime in the future, even if it is a brief mention of the west getting nuked by someone who traveled east to find a better place or something.

That or they can use the tunneler invasion Ulysses hinted at to destroy the Mojave/NCR/Legion. Either way is good, as long as both burn.

EDIT
Actually, you know what, forget I said anything. I'm wasting my time bringing this up anyways.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Do you actively seem to hate anything that competes with Bethesda?

?? Chris Avellone works for Obsidian......

While it might not progress or become stagnant it can NOT become self-destructive.

Except for the part when people get tired of his police state and eventually try to overthrow him, thus resulting in him either having to kill most of the population of New Vegas, which destroys him, or have to stand down in order to have New Vegas survive in any form, which also destroys him.

House cannot exist without people, he even says so himself, he is entirely reliant on the NCR for money, and he plans to use New Vegas to bleed the NCR of money so he can further his own ambitions. He tells you this specifically.

 

[Rattja]

I too liked 3 better than Vegas, but my reason is way simple, and goes for (almost) any game.

It's what I played first.

Although, you could be right about the atmosphere thing when I think about it.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Do you actively seem to hate anything that competes with Bethesda?

??

Chris Avellone works for Obsidian......

See my edit. I just think that you have this flaming hatred for the Black Isle and Obsidian games compared to FO3. So of course, you would love to see everything destroyed and put back to square one. Maybe Avellone would like to see that too, but he's still only one person on the dev team. And they don't always get along. Some people liked the wacky humor of the older games. Some people didn't. They compromised with the Wild Wasteland trait. But it seems like you just want another Capital Wasteland to play around in, rather than a rebuilding world. Just because Avellone might personally want to bring things back to square one doesn't mean that it is the absolute only way to go forward with the series. But you seem to want it that way when Bethesda gets back into it. Destroy everything people other enjoyed for another DC that you like.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

What huge sections are these? The city is broken up into various segments sure (Still it's much bigger than New Vegas itself). But the wasteland is entirely explorable. Fallout New Vegas has half the map that can't even be accessed and every time you climb three feet up a hill you hit an invisible wall.

Are you actually complaining that NV doesn't allow you to sequence break?

Nope.... I'm complaining about the absurd amount of invisible walls everywhere.