Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

[Navvan]

It seems the story the article wants to develop is something to the effect of "Youtube commentators who like video games verbally harass kick-starter project documenting sexism in videogames with sexist comments". Neglecting the fact that Youtube commentators have a notorious habit of verbally harassing, often with sexist comments, everything.

How exactly is that news?

OT: Yea um people can be and often display severe acts of intolerance and idiocy. Also the project itself seems like a waste of money to me, but its not my money funding it so what do I care. That isn't to say there isn't a problem with how females are portrayed in video games. It just isn't going to be progressed/fixed by this $43,000 money pit documentary. Who knows maybe I'll be wrong, but from the description of the documentary I doubt it.

"Hey guys! Weekly Update: Youtube is still full of ignorant ****s, here's some headdesk material for you!"

There be ninjas in this thread <<

 

[ARCTIC_EAGLE]

Well...I find myself lacking the words to properly denounce the actions of the scum that seem to be latching onto that video. I for one believe that she brings to light an important topic and I am glad to see the financial support she is getting.

 

[Druyn]

I would say that's a bit unfair. Sure, men do have stereotypical images plastered about for games, but there are also various other male figures in games, from geek types to meatheads, to the super soldier, the weaklings, the grunts, school kid superheroe, to the average joe. Women usually are either oversexualized, or incredibly weak in games, reduced to being rescued or hiding. Asking for a bit more diversity, besides a couple of one offs, isn't a terrible idea. there are so many games that fit my fiance's connection to a character (he prefers fast, agile characters that usually do sharpshooting or blade combat) versus my wish for a character (a loud, strong woman that doesn't look like she would either snap in half due to her battles, nor would be so poorly balanced from her breasts that she cannot possibly be able to do what she does (when it gets to the point that the character model goes through where their boobs are, its a bit too far.)

I agree with this. If you look at the sheer diversity of characters and their designs in men compared to women, there's this huge gap. I can think of plenty of deep male characters who break from stereotypes (and yes, many, many more that don't) but only a few female characters that do. Even Samus fell into the "all of this for a man" faux-depth. Female characters just don't get the same treatment in the development phase that male characters do. I think I can say that truthfully, without knowing enough about it to reason out why that is.

Now, with that said, I don't think she should be using a gaming kickstarter to do what at this point appears to be nothing more than a blog. That fundraising can be done elsewhere, this just seems like a cheap and easy way to get access to a large group of people who are in the mode to give money. Not entirely honest there.

 

[Sixcess]

Youtube comments are to intelligent debate what a public book burning is to literary criticism.

That aside, this series sounds damn dull, the sort of self flagelating over-analysis parts of the gaming community seems to have an unhealthy fascination with. The very fact that there are exceptions to the stereotypical portrayal of women in video games invalidates the entire premise from the get go.

I can't wait for the Kickstarter bubble to burst.

 

[Susan Arendt]

AS much as this documentary is pointless, the story is about the abuse she is recieving. That isn't called for and it's disgusting, she obviously doesn't deserve that. She also doesn't really deserve her kickstarter funding either.

True, and I don't dispute that it isn't called for and it makes me embarassed to associate my gender with these people, but I mean, why make a news report for this? If there was a news report every time a bunch of misogynists were being scum, we'd never learn anything outside of youtube/xbox live. Sure it's unacceptable, but we aren't fixing anything, and we aren't learning anything - anyone who saw this project knew right away this was going to happen.

I for one am glad it's been featured.
I've had people tell me sexism is no longer a problem in our community, with a straight face. Which is just bizzarre to me. Obviously as a girl I've seen my fair share, and there are times where I begin to think there is no point trying to change anything.

But I don't think it should ever be something we should just accept. Gaming sites/gamers saying this is not acceptable is a positive thing, and I'm happy to see it. People who don't participate in it but sit quietly as it goes on don't help.

Exactly. The comments, for the most part, don't discuss whether or not her point of view is valid, or whether the documentary would be worthwhile, they just come out swinging about how she's a Jew that needs a good dicking...except she's a lesbian and the commenters wouldn't fuck her, anyway.

Disagreeing with her point of view is fine, as is thinking her Kickstarter is a lousy idea. This isn't about whether or not her point of view is correct, it's about the sheer level of vitriol being directed at her. People frequently claim there's no sexism in gaming communities...well, take a look, gang. It's out there and it's ugly. Just saying "we knew this would happen" and shrugging it off isn't enough. Maybe some readers aren't "learning anything" because they're aware this goes on, but perhaps we educate some who truly didn't know it got this bad.

 

[Doclector]

Well, I don't want to kill her. Yet. Honestly, I've become rather jaded about feminists. I used to see feminism as something I should support, even as a man, being that I believe in the concept of an equal world. Then the feminazis appeared, effectively piling the same prejudice on men as they said we did to women.

But, the video didn't seem to strongly suggest that'd happen. If she turned out to be one of the "feminazis", then yes, I'd want to do all manner of unspeakably awful things to her. Just as I'd like to that to a racist, or a homophobe.

So, overall, this massive backlash is counterproductive, but possibly understandable. I get the feeling half of those comments may have come from people who heard the word "feminist" and jumped to feminazi in their minds. Dumb, but not necessarily evil. Like capcom. Well, before they went DLC crazy.

 

[Vault101]

I'd say it's more a problem with her one-sided approach that rails against video-game women conforming to stereotypes, while completely ignoring that video-game men conform to stereotypes just as much. And the fact that she's crowdsourcing videos, videos just like the one she made to advertise her solicitations, videos she'll make even more money on the ad revenue and traffic they'll generate.

But, by all means, let's pay $50 so she can tell us we're all pigs for playing Super Mario Brothers, which has a princess who needs rescuing.

once again missing the point

*sigh* as for those comments...what the fucking is wrong with some people?..seriously guys your making me hate you

 

[eventhorizon525]

I urge all the decent people here on the Escapist to let the idiots like Haploguy and his ilk know that their hatred will not be tolerated. Flame them, berate them, let them know that they are wastes of flesh. We outnumber the assholes.

This isn't any better. I am firmly of the mind they are idiots who have issues with certain social adjustments, but I don't see a full flame war ever being useful. It only makes the position I agree with sink to the level the youtube commenters are on.


[Sorry if you are going for some sarcastic and sort of meta commentary on this whole ordeal, I completely missed it]

 

[Kapol]

Um, he isn't doing a documentary? People are allowed to biased, just not when you want to make a documentary. And that's just ForeverPanderings' presentation - he's very aware he comes across as bitching. But "Pure hate" - really? You got that from it? He's definitely not misogynistic, he just doesn't like badly done pointless documentaries.

As for whether everyone already understands this issue, I suppose that's, unfortunately, not true. But here's the thing: are those who don't know this is an issue going to go to this 'documentary' and be enlightened? To me at least, it's obviously not going to happen. You can go to the extra credits coverage of the topic and be enlightened, but this appeals to people who already hold an identical view to the topic - thus, it is completely pointless as a documentary.

I suppose pure hate was a bit harsh. It doesn't come off as hateful as, say, the youtube comments. But it does come off as very mean-spirited to me, especially since he literally laughed at it as he said the name of the kickstarter and named the video 'stupid shitty kickstarter documentaries.' There's a line between pointing out flaws in the idea of something or proving to others that it won't work and simply badmouthing something because you don't agree with it.

I also understand that he's not doing a documentary. But at the same time he is trying to get people to form opinions based on his reasoning, which is something that many would say should also come from an unbiased source rather then someone who just hopes to take the piss out of the projects. Especially about a project that hasn't been released when a lot of his statements are based on what he believes will happen in it. Such as the statement that the video will 'detail the characters you hate in a non-constructive manner.' Now, it's fair to believe that will happen based on the evidence presented. But to say that's what it does when it's something that likely hasn't even begun production isn't really right in my opinion.

As for only people who agree with it watching it, that's an issue for nearly all opinionated documentaries. Most of the people who watch them are those who already believe something it true and want that confirmed however possible, or disagree and want to take the piss out of something. Now, these documentaries aren't always what people will expect. I do agree with the idea that documentaries SHOULD be unbiased. But even the most unbiased documentary won't change many peoples' opinions since many will just claim it was biased anyways (or at least the part against them were). Only a very small minority might form an opinion or change their opinion on documentaries unfortunantly.

Of course, I might be wrong on this matter. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject. And, as I said before, I don't really think this kickstarter is one that I would fund either because it does seem biased. So my opinion against the video you posted wasn't so much that it's wrong in that it's a bad kickstarter. but it's more that the video itself isn't very good either.

 

[Irridium]

Mind if I post that one Critical Miss comic?

Spoiler

And yeah yeah, men have to conform to stereotypes as well. Because conforming to the stereotype of "saving the world and getting all the fame/money/women" is totally the same thing as "just sit back and let the men handle things".

We got time for another comic?

Spoiler

 

[The Wooster]

Mind if I post that one Critical Miss comic?

Spoiler

Not at all, man, be my guest.

And yeah yeah, men have to conform to stereotypes as well. Because conforming to the stereotype of "saving the world and getting all the fame/money/women" is totally the same thing as "just sit back and let the men handle things".

We got time for another comic?

Spoiler

HISSSSSS!

 

[kingpocky]

At this point in time it would seem more reasonable (and more productive) to use Kickstarter to fund games with better female characters rather than to make a documentary about the lack of good female characters in video games. It's sort of like a hospital getting funding to help improve hospital standards, and rather than improving the hospital the money is instead used to make a documentary on how the hospital is in disarray. I guess my thought is that with the countless number of youtube videos, blogs, even forum posts dedicated to the subject, it would seem to me that we have gone past the "Identify the problem" stage and should be heading into the "How do we resolve this" stage.

I disagree, because it seems we haven't identified the problem. The problem is sexism, not mysogyny. The problem isn't how women are treated badly in games, it's how all genders are forced to adhere to respective sets of stereotypes. Focusing on the misogyny while ignoring the misandry isn't helping, it's showing unfair bias.

I never understand people who say "You can't focus on the problems with this one group unless you focus on the problems of all groups!" Why not? Sure, both men and women are often stereotyped in popular media, but it's pretty easy to argue that the causes behind the stereotyping, and the exact forms that it takes are different. Is she saying anywhere that the typical portrayal of men is perfect or that the issue doesn't deserve any attention? She's just focusing on how one group is portrayed and trying to offer up what her opinions are. If anyone would like to put some time into making a detailed study of the portrayal of men in videogames, or one which handles both genders, they're more than free to do so.

 

[Richardplex]

snip

..Okay, you got me. The video wasn't a good source. I just had that video at the ready, having recently-ish watched it, and I suffered some delicious confirmation bias. I still think his points were valid, badly executed or no.

As for documentaries, I'll have to disagree with you there. Me and my friend link each documentaries, and then discuss them afterwards. My most recent one for example was about the Yakuza, and I'm more educated, and more neutral about them now. The documentary was fairly neutral in my opinion, and it was one of the better ones I've seen because of that neutrality. YMMV is in effect here, but I'd definitely advocate that neutral documentaries make better discussion value, and thus better documentaries.

I'll edit my original post to say it isn't the best of sources..
[sub]really tempted to just say fuck it and delete everything, I'm exhausted with all these responses...[/sub]

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Awww, they're scared!

It's how social failures react to the opposite sex.

 

[Vault101]

I'm not missing the point. I'm condemning the people who made the terrible, hateful comments. They're horrible, and indefensible.

I'm just saying that a one-sided diatribe against the treatment of women in video games serves no good purpose, so while I wholeheartedly disagree with their tone and word choice, I share a negative view of this women who seems intent to counter sexism with more sexism.

So tell me what 'point' I'm missing?

because if somone wants to talk about the "issues surrounding women" in regards to not only video games but other forms of popular entertainment the "yeah but MEN are x too!" argument comes up

and yeah, that argument has points..HOWEVER It seems most times it comes up its more of a "shut up and stop complaining THERE ARE NO PROBELMS" thing

and I'm just going to come out and say it...[i/]there is a differnce[/i], most entertainment is catered to white adults and this shows, men are usually the main charachters, men usually get to have all the fun, I mean I couldnt bare to think how worse off Mass Effect would be if I was forced to play as default male shep


or think of catwoman and Batman

what do you think of when when you say Batman? is it his rippling abs underneith that tight suit?...no its his status as a badass hero

what about catwoman? what do we know bout her?....heres a hint...its mostly around that defective zipper of hers

BUT I'm also going to say that "eye roll" inducing gender issues havnt come up for me that often in games...Mass effect series, alot of RPG's and I recently finished Dead Space 2 with female charachter who wasnt trying to fuck you over or kill you

then theres uncharted which is eye roll inducing for a number of reasons..but how it handles females isnt (mostly) one of them


BUT I actually havnt encountered many "eye roll inducing" examples

 

[Slayer_2]

It's youtube, wish I could say I was shocked.

 

[Screamarie]

What I find interesting is that people keep saying she shouldn't get money for doing the documentary because there are others who do it for free and then they mention people like Extra Creditz....HELLO they didn't do it for free. They get paid to make that stuff, maybe not directly by the viewer, but they do. There's a reason why there are advertisements on their site. Making a good quality video is expensive and doing research can be expensive too, if for no other reason than that you're not working when you're researching.

If you don't like her kickstarter, don't donate. Her beliefs and her personal life is none of your concern. It's not like she's trying to force something through congress that means a man can never look at titties again. She's just trying to draw attention to a need for better character development in women in video games.

More than that, just because she's focusing on a single issue doesn't make her points invalid. Sometimes we have to take baby steps to an issue as a whole. "This part right here is REALLY bad, let's work on that first and at least get it to the standard of this other part of here and then take them BOTH the rest of the way from here."