Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

[Eamar]

Quite a reaction, loaded with even more vitriol, hypocrisy, and needless hyperbolic hostility. Thank you kindly for proving my point.

Hahaha good one, you almost had me for a second... wait, you're serious? Ok, just re-read your own groundless accusations of misandry and invalidating men based on nothing more than some woman's desire to talk about stereotypes she's observed.

Pot, meet kettle...

 

[Mouse One]

Wow. Is it possible for a woman to talk about a problem that affects women without a bunch of guys screaming "But guys have problems too!!" Of course they do. Make your own video about that, if you like.

More and more women play videogames (40% of the market, last I checked). It's not a boys only culture anymore, and it's unsurprising that women are going to speak up and say "We want more Chells and FemSheps, not just supporting roles, and certainly not bimbos". It doesn't make them man haters when they say that.

 

[Kebabco]

Wow I didn't know the escapist's members were such wusses. Games are a product made for a specific market and that market's storyline features protaganists (often the same sex as the player himself) solving a problem and saving the grateful victim (commonly the opposite sex to the protagonist).
That's a fine storyline with works because most gamers can easily identify themselves with the main character's goals.
Sooo stop bitching and enjoy

 

[Icehearted]

Hahaha good one, you almost had me for a second... wait, you're serious? Ok, just re-read your own groundless accusations of misandry and invalidating men based on nothing more than some woman's desire to talk about stereotypes she's observed.

Pot, meet kettle...

That oversimplifies the discussion, not to mention that it's a very permissive attitude toward a very one-sided subject.

Quite a reaction, loaded with even more vitriol, hypocrisy, and needless hyperbolic hostility. Thank you kindly for proving my point.

Well I apologize, but this debate is really grating on my nerves.

Also how exactly have I proven your point? Can you elaborate?
(No hostility, I just really want to know).

Here's one:
Me: "The vitriol has to be coming from someplace,"
You: "Mean spirited women hating virgins I'm guessing."

Oh, and that underlined portion in the quote goes back to what I just quoted of myself. The hard feelings were already there for a lot of people, this whole kickstarter episode was just a nasty little catalyst, little because it's one person's opinion, nasty because of the shitstorm that one person's opinion has unleashed (I didn't say start, like I said "The vitriol has to be coming from someplace,". The gender issue in gaming has been blown up by the press, and this is just the latest backlash.

I'm neither for or against, I just see it as hypocritical. Until men are walking around in speedos making money by peddling sex at E3 booths, or selling their precious time for the same kind of money women are on gamecrush, or have entire magazines and websites dedicated to "guys of gaming", women have nothing to legitimately complain about because they are doing it to themselves as much or more so than men.

 

[Eamar]

Hahaha good one, you almost had me for a second... wait, you're serious? Ok, just re-read your own groundless accusations of misandry and invalidating men based on nothing more than some woman's desire to talk about stereotypes she's observed.

Pot, meet kettle...

not to mention that it's a very permissive attitude toward a very one-sided subject.

Oh lord, please tell me you're not another one of those people who thinks that anyone who identifies with feminism is sexist? It's been said before and no doubt it'll be said again: it is not inherently wrong for someone to focus on one group. You can have people focusing on women's issues, people focusing on men's issues, and people focusing on both equally. Supporting one cause does not imply ignorance of or lack of support for other causes.

 

[JerrytheBullfrog]

Quite a reaction, loaded with even more vitriol, hypocrisy, and needless hyperbolic hostility. Thank you kindly for proving my point.

People get angry when faced with baseless accusations, misogyny, rape apologism, and silencing of topics that warrant legitimate discussion.

Who knew?

 

[Eamar]

Hahaha good one, you almost had me for a second... wait, you're serious? Ok, just re-read your own groundless accusations of misandry and invalidating men based on nothing more than some woman's desire to talk about stereotypes she's observed.

Pot, meet kettle...

not to mention that it's a very permissive attitude toward a very one-sided subject.

Oh lord, please tell me you're not another one of those people who thinks that anyone who identifies with feminism is sexist? It's been said before and no doubt it'll be said again: it is not inherently wrong for someone to focus on one group. You can have people focusing on women's issues, people focusing on men's issues, and people focusing on both equally. Supporting one cause does not imply ignorance of or lack of support for other causes.

Then feminism should stop saying it's for equality and just say they're a special interest group like the NAACP or something.

The end result is equality, how is that hard to understand? Feminism focuses on women, but it works to dispel conventions and stereotypes that harm both genders. It can't be compared to an organisation like that since there is no official feminist society or anything.

 

[Nulmas]

Well, after watching some of her previous videos, I've come to a simple conclusion:

How exactly can someone point out the "straw feminist" trope and then proceed to play one herself so well in some of her videos?

Granted, most of the times she does it seem to come out of either ignorance on the subject or just due to missing the point, but she still manages to pull it off with an alarming degree of success.

All the abuse she took was unwaranted, but hey, I guess it paid off in the end.

I'm honestly interested in watching her series, though. However, I believe she has to do better research. Some of the examples pointed out on her videos are misinterpreted and, sometimes, outright wrong.

Still, that doesn't mean that the problem isn't there. Hell, as mentioned before, the problem doesn't even apply just to women. But you have to start somewhere.

 

[Eamar]

Hahaha good one, you almost had me for a second... wait, you're serious? Ok, just re-read your own groundless accusations of misandry and invalidating men based on nothing more than some woman's desire to talk about stereotypes she's observed.

Pot, meet kettle...

not to mention that it's a very permissive attitude toward a very one-sided subject.

Oh lord, please tell me you're not another one of those people who thinks that anyone who identifies with feminism is sexist? It's been said before and no doubt it'll be said again: it is not inherently wrong for someone to focus on one group. You can have people focusing on women's issues, people focusing on men's issues, and people focusing on both equally. Supporting one cause does not imply ignorance of or lack of support for other causes.

Then feminism should stop saying it's for equality and just say they're a special interest group like the NAACP or something.

The end result is equality, how is that hard to understand? Feminism focuses on women, but it works to dispel conventions and stereotypes that harm both genders. It can't be compared to an organisation like that since there is no official feminist society or anything.

There are stereotypes that only hurt men and issues that only negatively effect men, if feminism never gets to them you can't say they're trying to vanquish sexism.

There are stereotypes that only hurt Asian people and issues that only negatively effect Asian people, the Civil Rights campaigners never got round to them so you can't say they were trying to vanquish racism.

Feminism focuses on women. Good feminists also care about men's problems, these problems are just not necessarily labelled as "feminist", because they're not about women. Once again, why is it so unacceptable to focus on one group? Why does focusing on women mean that feminists can't care about men?

 

[JerrytheBullfrog]

Ok so while i slept this progressed even worse than it was before. Now i hate sarkeesian. I think shes conning people & that this project will not need any more funding than she already has, anything she needs she will already be able to buy, & that her only intent is to continue preaching to the choir. She will accomplish nothing because she set out with that goal. I hate the woman.

Now, she is not a feminist. She is an internet radical. Making like minded fools feel right. Everything is a conspiracy by men, women are thrown under the bus at every turn, & she does all this in the most pretentious, cold, arrogant, and hateful way possible. Now remember that she is targeting games. When games & the communities surrounding them are target it it is ALWAYS done with no intent of being impartial. She says she is about to attack the hobby of gaming with intent to make it look bad. If gamers did rise up and shout her down it would be justifiable. But no. Everyone copied comments from youtube and took it as indicative of the gaming community. Well let me get at least one thing clear as possible. Gaming has no one community. Its a broad spectrum with no central group. Just like youtube has no central hate community.

Youtubes hate community spans a wide range of people.

Spoiler

People that hate religion
People that hate people that hate religion
People that hate injustice
people that hate injustice as they perceive it
people that hate youtube commenters
people that hate those guys
people that hate gay people
people that hate people that demonize gay people
people that hate nerds
people that hate those that try to pass themselves off as dorky in order to make money from youtube
people that hate vlogs
people that hate vlogs based on the gender of the host
people that hate warcraft
people that hate those that hate warcraft
people that hate indie games
people that hate AAA games
people that hate steam
people that hate bad news
people that hate GOOD news
people that hate conservatives
people that hate liberals
people that hate equality
people that hate inequality
people that hate feminism
people that hate the government
people that hate laws
people that hate guns
people that hate technology(yes they exist on youtube)
people that hate TV
people that hate nintendo/sony/microsoft/etc
people that hate walkthroughs
people that hate letsplays
people that hate first impressions

people that hate anything can be found inside the realm of youtube hate so don't act like it is an indication of jack other than yotubes status as roaming area.

I love your assumptions. They're really kind of cool, and totally not reactionary and misogynist at all.

Except it's opposite day.

How is she trying to attack gaming? She is a gamer. She is making videos about something about gaming and gaming culture that bothers her and that she wants to examine. That is not an attack on gaming.

The only conspiracy here is the ACTUAL COORDINATED CONSPIRACY TO SHUT HER DOWN. Vandalizing wikipedia pages, getting her youtube videos flagged as terrorism, getting Kickstarter to cancel the project.

This goes so far beyond YouTube comments you have no idea.

 

[m0ng00se]

(Also, false rape accusations do occur. They're estimated at about 5% - pretty much exactly the level of false accusations for other violent crimes. So why do we automatically doubt rape victims so much?)

Probably because it's harder to retroactively turn a decision you later regret into being the victim of any other violent crime than turning an unpleasant or shameful sexual encounter into a rape. Or at least making it sound that way to your peers so they don't think you're a slut or whatever. I can't speak for statistics but most of us have been to high school and college and I'd wager we've all heard something like that at least once. I've got friends who are seriously concerned about this happening to them because you never know if somebody's gonna get hit with particularly nasty post-coital regret when you meet them at a bar.

In other news, this captcha system is horrifying. I'm given a brand and have to describe it instead of actually doing a real captcha. Interesting idea but pretty horrific.

 

[Schadrach]

My point: There's no conspiracy of all men going on to suppress all women, there are many factors involved, most of them involving religion, or own choices. A mono-explanation or a conspiracy theory is folly.

Yeah, and the notion of feminism as a conspiracy theory about how all men are trying to suppress all women is a pretty classic right-wing talking point. It doesn't resemble actual feminism.

Tell that to Susan Brownmiller. I believe she was the one who was quoted writing something along the lines of all men engaging in a conscious effort to oppress all women by threatening them with rape, or something to that effect? I can get the quote if you'd like, it's from Against Our Will.

Let's see if you can find the logical fallacy here:

A is a B.

A is C.

Therefore, all B are C.

Let's actually fill in those blanks.

Susan Brownmiller is a noted feminist author whose book Against Our Will is still often quoted when discussing the topic of rape and frequently has a place in Women's Studies programs.

This book states amongst it's claims that, and this time I quote, rape is "a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear."

Therefore, a statement from a notable feminist author in a book that is commonly taught in Women's Studies departments might potentially be a good example of a feminist statement?

I know, I know, "feminism is not a monolith." As I stated in another thread, by certain definitions of "feminist", I'm a feminist (in that I believe that men and women should have identical rights and responsibilities when possible, and equivalent rights and responsibilities where identical ones are literally impossible). There are also definitions of feminist that explicitly exclude me no matter what I believe because I have dangly genitals. Others that wouldn't claim me because I think holding women to lesser standards than men in some fields is sexist.

Snip

Last I checked, there was no campaign to vilify the makers of Tentacle Bento by editing hardcore pornography into their Wikipedia page, and they didn't get threats of death or rape. It was fighting against a vile game that trivialized rape, and Kickstarter didn't want that sort of thing associated with its name, as it has every right to.

You have the right to free speech, and I have the right to speak out against your speech.

(Also, false rape accusations do occur. They're estimated at about 5% - pretty much exactly the level of false accusations for other violent crimes. So why do we automatically doubt rape victims so much?)

Let's be honest here, Kickstarter didn't give a damn about the tentacle hentai flavored, non-explicit but innuendo laden card matching game until there was a feminist backlash against it (there was also a push to get PayPal to freeze their account as well so they couldn't fund the project from their own website, but PayPal didn't roll over). No WP vandalism, although not having a Wikipedia page probably doesn't hurt on that front.

Yes, you are of course right on your free speech comment. Oddly enough, that could be used as an argument in favor of the horrific troll hordes that beset this project. So let me ask you this in return: Does that mean I have to right to use my speech to attempt to forcibly silence yours? Because that is precisely what the troll hordes are doing (albeit terribly ineffectively), and that is also what the feminist hordes did to SodaPopMini (to much greater effect, in part by being less, well, trollish and immature in their campaign to kill it with fire).

Do we? What other crimes do we pursue and sometimes convict on nothing other than victim testimony? What other crime can you say "That 51 year old man committed this crime against me 36 years ago when he was babysitting", and get a conviction with no other evidence (more importantly, how would you defend against that?)? Or for a better example, imagine the person you lost your virginity with (if such a person exists) decided tomorrow to claim that encounter was rape/sexual assault (depending on the genders involved, since forced intercourse isn't rape if it's female-on-male). How would you defend yourself? As far as I can tell, the only answers are video every sexual encounter, and don't stick it in the crazy (always good advice).

Rape cases need to be thoroughly investigated, tried if there's evidence, held to the same goddamned standards as every other criminal case, if there's a finding of guilt, punished appropriately, and if there's evidence that it's a false accusation, then that needs to be thoroughly investigated, tried if there's evidence, held to the same goddamned standards as every other criminal case, and if there's a finding of guilt, punished appropriately (and in this case, the punishment is far too lenient for the harm it does, being usually about the equivalent of a speeding ticket -- something like some jail time and a spot on our good friend the sex offender registry would be more appropriate [yes, I am saying falsely accusing someone of a sex crime should itself be a sex crime]).

Likewise, I think the media should be barred from naming either defendant or victim in such a case (as opposed to the current practice of anonymizing the victim and plastering the defendant's name everywhere, thus effectively ruining his reputation even if innocent). If the defendant is found anything other than guilty, I think the defendant's name should not be released. If there's a false accusation case, I think a finding of guilt should involve releasing the false accuser's name, but letting the falsely accused remain anonymous.

Typically, the argument against pursuing false accusations is that doing so would make it harder to come forward for real victims, but I believe the opposite -- the ease with which false accusations occur and the unlikelihood that one will ever be punished for doing so makes it easier to make the jump to a false accusation. Likewise, there needs to be more effort made to differentiate "unprovable" cases from "false accusations" -- in the former no one but victim and accused ever know the truth for sure (not guilty verdict), in the latter, the truth is known.

 

[Kahunaburger]

My point: There's no conspiracy of all men going on to suppress all women, there are many factors involved, most of them involving religion, or own choices. A mono-explanation or a conspiracy theory is folly.

Yeah, and the notion of feminism as a conspiracy theory about how all men are trying to suppress all women is a pretty classic right-wing talking point. It doesn't resemble actual feminism.

Tell that to Susan Brownmiller. I believe she was the one who was quoted writing something along the lines of all men engaging in a conscious effort to oppress all women by threatening them with rape, or something to that effect? I can get the quote if you'd like, it's from Against Our Will.

Let's see if you can find the logical fallacy here:

A is a B.

A is C.

Therefore, all B are C.

Let's actually fill in those blanks.

Susan Brownmiller is a noted feminist author whose book Against Our Will is still often quoted when discussing the topic of rape and frequently has a place in Women's Studies programs.

This book states amongst it's claims that, and this time I quote, rape is "a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear."

Therefore, a statement from a notable feminist author in a book that is commonly taught in Women's Studies departments might potentially be a good example of a feminist statement?

I know, I know, "feminism is not a monolith." As I stated in another thread, by certain definitions of "feminist", I'm a feminist (in that I believe that men and women should have identical rights and responsibilities when possible, and equivalent rights and responsibilities where identical ones are literally impossible). There are also definitions of feminist that explicitly exclude me no matter what I believe because I have dangly genitals. Others that wouldn't claim me because I think holding women to lesser standards than men in some fields is sexist.

Yeah, it's almost like the notion of "feminism" being a monolithic ideology that can be categorically demonized is a right-wing talking point.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Actually, it would. Men can be raped too, you know. It's conflating sexual aggression with dominance. I beat you, ergo you suck my dick. But it's also just as common to, if you're against a guy, talk about "HEY I FUCKED YOUR MOM." Ad mominem, so to speak - but when against a woman, you don't go for her mom, you go directly for her.

Why can't you talk shit about their actual skills? "God, you're terrible at this game, learn to shoot." Why does it have to be "I'm going to rape you in the ass, boy!"?

.....

Spoiler: Wait...your seriously saying that people should be considerate when they're shit talking/taking smack?

The silencing of a woman trying to make a video to examine and educate about harmful stereotypes using *sexually violent threats* is rape culture. And unfortunately, it is prevalent in videogame culture.

I'm not one of those YouTubers making the threats, I'm not asking her to not focus on how women are depicted in video games, I'm just asking her to use some of her kickstarter money to have an episode on how men are depicted as well.

What you're doing is the equivalent of showing up to a discussion about violence against women (in real life), and saying "Hey! Men get raped, too! Why aren't you talking about that?"

Yes, men get raped too. (Yes, there are harmful stereotypes about men.)

Yes, it is important that we have discussions about it. (Yes, we need to discuss them.)

But it's interrupting the conversation that the women are trying to have about their own sex and gender, and trying to make it about men.

No, its asking for the discussion to be expanded and talk about women and men. Its asking to focus on all rape victims regardless of the rape victims gender.

It should not be their job to make it about us. It should be our job.

Again, if I go by your definition of feminist(that their main goal is for gender equality) then it is their "job" to bring up gender issues that men face. If they really are about gender equality, then they should bring up issues that both genders face.

Can you really not understand that? If you want desperately for this to exist (and I think it should), why not fund your own kickstarter? And then, nobody's saying you have to talk about female characters, either.

Again, if she is a feminist who is for gender equality, I see no reason why she should not focus on men's issues as well. I'm not advocating that she doesn't focus on issues that women face, but that she also focuses on issues that men face. I'm asking her to expand her subject matter, not only focus on issues that one gender faces.

 

[socialistmath]

Do we? What other crimes do we pursue and sometimes convict on nothing other than victim testimony? What other crime can you say "That 51 year old man committed this crime against me 36 years ago when he was babysitting", and get a conviction with no other evidence (more importantly, how would you defend against that?)? Or for a better example, imagine the person you lost your virginity with (if such a person exists) decided tomorrow to claim that encounter was rape/sexual assault (depending on the genders involved, since forced intercourse isn't rape if it's female-on-male). How would you defend yourself? As far as I can tell, the only answers are video every sexual encounter, and don't stick it in the crazy (always good advice).

"B-b-but what about people accused of rape!?" Really? You bring up bullshit about false rape accusations? Do you have any idea of how statistically insignificant those accusations are? Do you not understand how much bullshit a woman goes through when she dares to accuse a man of rape? Why would any woman want to go through all that?

Rape cases need to be thoroughly investigated, tried if there's evidence, held to the same goddamned standards as every other criminal case, if there's a finding of guilt, punished appropriately, and if there's evidence that it's a false accusation, then that needs to be thoroughly investigated, tried if there's evidence, held to the same goddamned standards as every other criminal case,

Regardless of whatever men's rights activists vomit out of their putrid mouths, rape already is held to those standards.

[yes, I am saying falsely accusing someone of a sex crime should itself be a sex crime]).

You're mentally ill if you seriously think this. Seriously? You equate the false accusation of rape to rape itself?

Likewise, I think the media should be barred from naming either defendant or victim in such a case (as opposed to the current practice of anonymizing the victim and plastering the defendant's name everywhere, thus effectively ruining his reputation even if innocent).

"Think of the poor rapists' reputation!"

If the defendant is found anything other than guilty, I think the defendant's name should not be released. If there's a false accusation case, I think a finding of guilt should involve releasing the false accuser's name, but letting the falsely accused remain anonymous.

Let me guess, you want their name made public so they can get what they deserve, right?

To be completely honest, none of the responses she's gotten are really that surprising to me. Most boys and men are incapable of understanding, or even caring about, problems that women face unless they are buttressed against problems that men face. You see it in many of the replies here: "what about the men?" "what about tropes that harm men?" etc. etc.. A woman is never allowed to say something is harmful for women, unless, of course, she mentions how it also harms men (which is clearly the most important part). It's almost as if men don't see women as people.

 

[JerrytheBullfrog]

Actually, it would. Men can be raped too, you know. It's conflating sexual aggression with dominance. I beat you, ergo you suck my dick. But it's also just as common to, if you're against a guy, talk about "HEY I FUCKED YOUR MOM." Ad mominem, so to speak - but when against a woman, you don't go for her mom, you go directly for her.

Why can't you talk shit about their actual skills? "God, you're terrible at this game, learn to shoot." Why does it have to be "I'm going to rape you in the ass, boy!"?

.....

Spoiler: Wait...your seriously saying that people should be considerate when they're shit talking/taking smack?

The silencing of a woman trying to make a video to examine and educate about harmful stereotypes using *sexually violent threats* is rape culture. And unfortunately, it is prevalent in videogame culture.

I'm not one of those YouTubers making the threats, I'm not asking her to not focus on how women are depicted in video games, I'm just asking her to use some of her kickstarter money to have an episode on how men are depicted as well.

What you're doing is the equivalent of showing up to a discussion about violence against women (in real life), and saying "Hey! Men get raped, too! Why aren't you talking about that?"

Yes, men get raped too. (Yes, there are harmful stereotypes about men.)

Yes, it is important that we have discussions about it. (Yes, we need to discuss them.)

But it's interrupting the conversation that the women are trying to have about their own sex and gender, and trying to make it about men.

No, its asking for the discussion to be expanded and talk about women and men. Its asking to focus on all rape victims regardless of the rape victims gender.

It should not be their job to make it about us. It should be our job.

Again, if I go by your definition of feminist(that their main goal is for gender equality) then it is their "job" to bring up gender issues that men face. If they really are about gender equality, then they should bring up issues that both genders face.

Can you really not understand that? If you want desperately for this to exist (and I think it should), why not fund your own kickstarter? And then, nobody's saying you have to talk about female characters, either.

Again, if she is a feminist who is for gender equality, I see no reason why she should not focus on men's issues as well. I'm not advocating that she doesn't focus on issues that women face, but that she also focuses on issues that men face. I'm asking her to expand her subject matter, not only focus on issues that one gender faces.

-You ask for evidence of rape culture in gaming.
-I give you an example.
-You brush it off as just normal shit talk.

AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM. It shouldn't BE normal or acceptable to threaten rape under ANY circumstances. That you're arguing that "hey it's just shit talking" is the *very fucking definition of rape culture.* Jesus christ.

And feminists are for gender equality VIA THE ADVOCACY OF WOMENS' ISSUES. Because they need it a lot more than we men do.

Holy shit, how are you not getting this? How is this such a hard concept to understand? She isn't focusing on men's issues because A.) she doesn't want to in this project, B.) she has no obligations to, and C.) arguing that she shouldn't be able to talk about womens' issues without discussing mens' issues to is disruptive, derailing, and silences the whole discussion.

I'm done here. Take the blinders off please and actually LISTEN to what you're being told. Don't just hear, listen. And think.

 

[AverageExtraordinair]

so this is what being in a canoe with only one paddle is like

OT: how do we solve the issues that we face as a community if we cant even, after 24 pages of forum posts even agree what they are and if they even exist. Is it even worth it ?

 

[minuialear]

That's not an excuse to "rage" at someone. If you disagree with someone's Kickstarter, the most reasonable response to it is not to get enraged and spew that kind of hate over it. These comments weren't well-thought-out counter-arguments to her claims that women aren't represented fairly in video games. They weren't just comments of the tune "Well I don't agree, so I'm not going to spend my money on this." These were people who didn't respect her right to have an opinion (regardless of whether it's right or wrong), and felt the need to knock her down for having a different one because of it.

I thought the "right" approach was to start an organized campaign to get the Kickstarter cancelled, ala Tentacle Bento? Then complain that PayPal doesn't bow to pressure as easily, after that group moves their funding drive to their own site?

My point is that disagreeing with someone does not justify insulting them in a manner as malicious as that seen for this particular Kickstarter.

So I don't get why you brought that example up, considering it comprises a completely different set of circumstances. In this Kickstarter, they aren't creating a movement to get the Kickstarter taken down; they are attacking HER and HER sex and HER race (among other things) with malicious insults directed towards HER moreso than her actual described product. In the one for Tentacle Bento, they attacked the KICKSTARTER (no doubt some idiots also attacked the creators, but certainly not this much or with equal amounts of vitrol) because of the content of it (which is a lot more controversial and arguably in worse taste than that of this girl's Kickstarter).

It's when your girlfriend nags you when you're taking a break while playing games, fixing your car/motorcycle, doing your hobby and not letting you have that moment of pause, because it's not as important as whatever she wants. Please try to understand that these women not only exist, but are common.

Where did I say they don't exist, again?

The problem is that in your last post, you said:

The other ting is that any man who's had a girlfriend or wife, knows the feeling of them encroaching on your territory, your place of silence and focus. When girls like Anita make an accusing video like that, men take it personally, because it's another one of those annoying cries for attention(Not saying it is, I'm saying it LOOKS like it).

First of all, "enroaching on...territory" means taking territory that doesn't belong to you; in the context you described it (i.e., you're participating in some kind of hobby/activity, and suddenly your significant other enroaches on your territory), it doesn't mean "I'm playing games and she makes me play with the dog/read her a book." It means "I'm playing video games and she learns how to play them too, which isn't cool because it's 'my thing'," or
"I'm playing video games and she forces me to play with her/forces me to let her have video game time as well." So my confusion seemed to be over your poor choice of words. I'll take that comment back.

But more importantly is that bolded part, which essentially says "All women who have been in relationships with men are guilty of this." Which is patently false, as would the claim that all guys even need time for "silence and focus." Don't project your needs and what you haven't been getting in your relationships on everyone else, because some of us are doing just fine.

Your blatant attempt at white-knighting is an obvious indication of your inexperience in relationships.

You're going to have to explain to me where you're getting this "white-knighting" claim from before I address the rest of this half of your response.

 

[JerrytheBullfrog]

Ok so while i slept this progressed even worse than it was before. Now i hate sarkeesian. I think shes conning people & that this project will not need any more funding than she already has, anything she needs she will already be able to buy, & that her only intent is to continue preaching to the choir. She will accomplish nothing because she set out with that goal. I hate the woman.

Now, she is not a feminist. She is an internet radical. Making like minded fools feel right. Everything is a conspiracy by men, women are thrown under the bus at every turn, & she does all this in the most pretentious, cold, arrogant, and hateful way possible. Now remember that she is targeting games. When games & the communities surrounding them are target it it is ALWAYS done with no intent of being impartial. She says she is about to attack the hobby of gaming with intent to make it look bad. If gamers did rise up and shout her down it would be justifiable. But no. Everyone copied comments from youtube and took it as indicative of the gaming community. Well let me get at least one thing clear as possible. Gaming has no one community. Its a broad spectrum with no central group. Just like youtube has no central hate community.

Youtubes hate community spans a wide range of people.

Spoiler

People that hate religion
People that hate people that hate religion
People that hate injustice
people that hate injustice as they perceive it
people that hate youtube commenters
people that hate those guys
people that hate gay people
people that hate people that demonize gay people
people that hate nerds
people that hate those that try to pass themselves off as dorky in order to make money from youtube
people that hate vlogs
people that hate vlogs based on the gender of the host
people that hate warcraft
people that hate those that hate warcraft
people that hate indie games
people that hate AAA games
people that hate steam
people that hate bad news
people that hate GOOD news
people that hate conservatives
people that hate liberals
people that hate equality
people that hate inequality
people that hate feminism
people that hate the government
people that hate laws
people that hate guns
people that hate technology(yes they exist on youtube)
people that hate TV
people that hate nintendo/sony/microsoft/etc
people that hate walkthroughs
people that hate letsplays
people that hate first impressions

people that hate anything can be found inside the realm of youtube hate so don't act like it is an indication of jack other than yotubes status as roaming area.

I love your assumptions. They're really kind of cool, and totally not reactionary and misogynist at all.

Except it's opposite day.

How is she trying to attack gaming? She is a gamer. She is making videos about something about gaming and gaming culture that bothers her and that she wants to examine. That is not an attack on gaming.

The only conspiracy here is the ACTUAL COORDINATED CONSPIRACY TO SHUT HER DOWN. Vandalizing wikipedia pages, getting her youtube videos flagged as terrorism, getting Kickstarter to cancel the project.

This goes so far beyond YouTube comments you have no idea.

I thought i made it clear that people would perceive it as an attack & rightly so. And yes its an attack on gaming. Her intent was to portray gaming negatively therefore attack on gaming. Regardless of if she is a gamer or not, she seeks to portray the medium negatively and ONLY negatively. At least that was her plan. So i will consider this an attack on gaming on the grounds that she had no intent of portraying it fairly. Until she hit twice her intended goal. Seems fairly straight forward. And no coordinated shutdown conspiracy exists. Its all mob behavior. Its just a bunch of slackjawed YouTube haters going beyond their normal bounds of behavior. The people doing this probably aren't even connected. This started on youtube and it somehow became indicative of how horrible gamers are. But this behavior is no where out of the ordinary. Normally her videos get flagged regularly. Why? Because youtube idiots. Now why would they suddenly jump from regular youtube hate to vandalizing wikipedia? IDK maybe cause she asked for a few thousand dollars to continue doing the work she was doing.

And yes. Because i hate a fake-feminist i must be a misogynist. Excellent work there rookie, you may well be chief of police one say. See i hate her because every thing with her is a coordinated & harmful conspiracy against women. Legos swap from neutral to male favored advertising? Well shes not saying there is a conspiracy against women... But there is a conspiracy against women and lego is in on it. Thats the prevailing thing with her videos. Lego is sexist(stupid defiantly but not sexist & trying to harm women), suckerpunch is indicative of hollywoods hatred of women, popular gaming is populated mostly by mail main characters therefore hatred, etc. Shes not a stupid woman but she has stupid ideas about how the patriarchy idea works.

No, you're just completely misunderstanding her points.

Nobody is saying that the people in the LEGO boardroom are scheming about how they can keep the women down.

The Sucker Punch director/writer weren't saying, "Yeah, let's make a film about how much we hate women."

Nobody is arguing that. She certainly isn't.

But societal values in a culture that is still inherently misogynist to some degree or another mean that these things happen *without people realizing.* That is the insidious nature of sexism (and racism) today; it's the little assumptions that people make without thinking.

And no, it's not an attack on gaming. Only the most insecure of gamers worried that they'd lose their hold on their no-women-allowed circle would see it that way.

PS - I didn't call you a misogynist. I said that your assumptions were. (And they are.)

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Smurfette principle

Your wrong, Clearing the Eye definitely "gets it [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.378338.14792236]".

OP:Out of curiosity, has she covered the stereotypical ways men are depicted in video games and other forms of media? ...or is this just another person telling me how feminism is somehow concerned about men, yet they are reluctant to focus on it?

Except that men being stereotyped are stereotyped for a male audience like women in games. Which is part of the problem.