Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

[Mylinkay Asdara]

This is where most males point out that they too are stereotyped. This is true and yet it is not the same type of stereotyping in most cases. Let me briefly explain what I mean there. Men are, by and large in video games, portrayed as either really masculine, tough, burly, physical, and good in combat or smart, clever, charming, suave, etc. These are positive stereotypes.

But there's a counter. Any male who doesn't fit these stereotypes is marginalized. The main character must be those things, but if a male isn't one of them, they're portrayed negatively. They're the wacky comedy relief, or the camp gay, or both at the same time. Or even the villain. How many older males in video games exist to be nothing but a father/surrogate father to the main character, and are either killed off, or made into the villain of the game?

We complain about females being shallow, one-note, token characters, and are praised, but try to bring up the same complain about males, and no, no, we have to focus on the women.

They are still stereotypes, they can still be harmful and misrepresentative of the group, but they are positive attributes being exaggerated - and they are the type of attributes that are generally viewed as positive by males as well as females. This is like the stereotype that all Asians are good at math or all African Americans are particularly athletic. It isn't okay to generalize to that degree, but it isn't the same thing as negative stereotypes like Asian people are bad drivers or African American people talk through movies. Women, on the other hand, are stereotyped in games in ways that are not considered positive by females as well as males in general, the slant is clearly toward a physical ideal that is perceived to be valued by males (talking about giant breasts and skimpy outfits here).

There's this thing called "benevolent sexism". It's hardly benevolent, if you ask me, but it's praising conformation to sterotypes and punishing deviation. And it gets mostly ignored. Why? Because video games tended to be thought of as 'male-dominated' so people think the only counter is to start using the same standards we judge males on for females, to bring them up to the same level.

What we need isn't more bad-ass action girls, but a game market where strength AND weakness are both valued. But weakness is only ever presented as something to be overcome, the meek character needs to toughen up. We don't need a female Duke Nukem, we need to have fewer Duke Nukems in the world altogether.

Overall, I agree with you. However, it is a little bit like saying we shouldn't worry about who's fighting wars right now, what we really need is some global peace all around, yeah, totally. No one can disagree with the sentiment of such a statement, but it doesn't really address any of the problem and it actually skims over the problem by saying the answer is a perfect solution that doesn't exist and can't come into reality until the problem is dealt with piecemeal.

There are other problems of generalization and stereotyping in games (and other entertainment media). There are a series of complexities to be handled regarding each facet of those individual issues. We are never going to have an instant solution to all of them at once, however, and saying that one problem should not be brought into the open because all of the problems can't be put in the light at the same time is the path to never solving anything at all.

This is what becomes frustrating about this topic for me. I'm constantly reading that the problem of how women are portrayed in video games can't or shouldn't be addressed until every problem of representation is being also addressed and that just is impossible. It is the same thing as saying that it will never be dealt with, but in an evasive way that shuts down any argument to the contrary.

I would completely support a movement by male gamers to make their representation in games more realistic - without demanding my gender be treated first or alongside it, but I detest the fact that my gender's redress of their representation has to wait until all other concerns are also being dealt with. We aren't asking to be special. We aren't asking other causes to wait on us. Some of us are just trying to address a problem we see, and because the males aren't proactive enough to have their own issue addressed we seem more zealous by comparison and have to be somehow trying to dominate because of that. It's ridiculous. Start a movement if you care, but don't impede a movement for something else because your problem doesn't have one yet.

 

[Giftmacher]

I really have no problem with this project, I can't see what the fuss is about?

At it's worst this project is looking to tell us what we already know. Will it really impact on the status quo? Well, sex sells so probably not. Then again, nothing changes if we don't try at all.

 

[Neonit]

how about this, in place of spending money on research that will prove nothing - because lets face it, we already know that. how about make a real game? because you know, a research - its difficult to say whenever it was successful or not. a game, a game is easy to judge.

but yeah, to me it seems like the very friggin same mechanism that pushes men to buy sexists game. its made for them. a game made for women? it would be exactly as sexist, and thus will sell well to women.

so basically its the same friggin thing, only with the sides reversed. and to me it seems, someone wants to fund a survey to find new gold deposit. paid by your money.

 

[Charli]

Don't bother funding it, but don't flame her either.

This is the lesson here. Not weather or not you agree with her.

Clamboring together like a bunch of mindless hooting life-failures no matter the gender/race/relgion/opinion is grounds for ridicule, and sadly it just happens to be mysognistic male gamers in this instance.

Because they went about it in this childish manner, yes they are now utterly in the wrong. And undermine the efforts of other gamers who try to be mild mannered, well adjusted citizens to disprove the media and old people's stance on what being a gamer entails.

 

[Kodlak]

Have to admit I laughed at some of the comments, however all those comments have brought the project to the attention of many at the Escapist.

Personally I'm not that bothered about this, good on her for trying,and it's fine if she wants to do this however I'm not funding it.

 

[Aureliano]

Sigh. Jerks being sexist at somebody trying to do something important. Self-important lady failing to do that work particularly well. Sad times all around.

 

[TJC]

and once again, YouTube comments prove to be the cesspool of interet behaviour. *sigh*

Honestly, though, I don't need a movie to tell me which character is a characterless clichee. I can oftentimes estimate that by the sizes of their HUGE TITS!!!!
I applaud any effort to tackle the horrible tropes and clichees women are stuck in nowadays but somehow a v-log seems... y'kno... silly. Why not just make more games with acceptable female main characters? Episodic releases that tackle these tropes one by one, sometimes funny, sometimes serious, deconstructing the very tropes that are so prevalent in today's games.

Playing a Metroidvania game with an Ivy ripoff as main character who dies because of one hit because her armor is nothing but an iron bikini and she gains hitpoints by collecting clothes, or playing a... uh... carpenter called... uh... Pario out to rescue the... uh... Queen Meach only to realise that she freed herself through point-n-click adventure-style puzzles because she's not a functional retards with tits.
or playing a normal female character thrown into an extraordinary situation (Like extra credits's example of a mother of two kids trying to escape from a battlefield... I'd play the shit out of a stealth and sneak game like that)

Really, anything but having a - probably well-edited - movie pointing at tropes saying "This is bad, m'kay".
No, tropes are not necessarily bad. The use of said trope is important and I'd rather see tropes deconstructed than being told what not to do.

 

[RA92]

Ask yourself this question Grey, whether you agree with her or not, how would you try and shut her down if you were of a mind to do so? You can say you wouldn't engage in E-intimidation, but at the same time it's not like there are any other recourses.

I wouldn't. I'm not so insecure in my views that I feel the need to censor people who disagree with me.

I gave up trying to reason with that guy a long time back... Kudos to you for shutting him up in such a concise post.

Considering the company she works for, she probably could do this for half of her goal and still make a substantial profit in the education sector. The way the media could portray this, the amount of money she's making makes it seem like she's padding her wallet.

Granted, if this does end up becoming part of a classroom curriculum, I could understand her needing to receive some funding or sponsorship. $6k seems enough for the scope of her research, but $43k is just astronomically high. I wouldn't want to censor her or debase her because of her viewpoint alone. I do think she should put a cap on her Kickstarter now that she's already 7 times past her initial goal.

What... I don't even...

You expect her to refuse money people are throwing at her? In which universe does that logic work?

 

[Phasmal]

Aaaand cue the people defending this sort of shit.

This stuff happens all the time in the gaming community and it needs to be pointed out and heckled as much as possible.

Hopefully, the gaming community will be dragged kicking and screaming towards a point where this kind of crap is at least frowned upon. (But I am sure I will be called `extreme` for even thinking there is a problem).

And then all you have is music and movies to contend with.

I'm all for progress but I find it odd that you could release the same game in movie form and see no controversy.

I'm sorry, what?

I'm not talking about specific games. I'm not even talking about the documentary. I'm talking about the crappy misogyny in the community. That is the shit that needs to go away.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Well thanks for ruining my afternoon, Grey.

 

[Dfskelleton]

I would be shocked if I didn't know that Youtube comments were like that ALL OF THE TIME.
It doesn't matter what the video is about; it could be about anything from news on the latest devastating tragedy to videos of cats doing silly things. I think this has less to do with misogony and more to do with idiots.
I don't think too much of her project, but I am completely biased whenever it comes to anything involving feminism. It always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

I'm interested in hearing what she has to say for the "man with boobs" episode. I've heard this criticism leveled before, but I've never heard anyone back it up in any meaningful way. It usually strikes me as the people who are invested in complaining about female characters finally getting one who isn't shoved into the usual female stereotype boxes and realizing how shitty most male characters actually are.

Speaking of which, has anyone ever written about the stereotypes male characters get forced into? They're equally rooted in traditional gender stereotypes. Some say that it's okay because their qualities are "positive", but I think they're actually just as harmful to structure an identity around as their female equivalents (in fact, why do we consider these positive traits? Why are we so down on the traits traditionally considered feminine?). Actually, they might be more directly harmful, because the stereotypical male identity revolves around personal sacrifice, the denial of one's own pain and emotions, and violence. I'm not saying people shouldn't be talking about how female characters are portrayed, but why is no one doing the same for male characters? The closest I've ever heard someone come to that was as an aside during that PAX "women in games" event.

Does anyone think that their might be a direct relation between female characters getting stuck in these stereotypical roles and the same happening with male characters? Is there any merit to a more holistic approach? "Gender roles in video games" as opposed to just "women in games" or "men in games"?

 

[itsthesheppy]

If you ever wanted to see that there is a problem with sexism in the gamer community, you need look no further than this forum thread (and there are others on Escapist Forums) where feminism is demonized and legions of male gamers come out in defense of the purely imagined attack on themselves.

It's as if someone posted a thread entitled "I really don't like people who kick puppies", only to have hordes of people posting "I love puppies you asshole! and to prove it, here is a picture of me kicking one!" They imagine the attack is levied against them and in their knee-jerk response to such imagined assault, they maneuver themselves right into the camp of people who deserve the attack in the first place.

 

[blackdwarf]

that she wants to make a video like that, fine. her opinion, her show, and her idea. I may not agree with her with the stuff she will show on the video (or i will agree, i don't know), but i can't see how her "research" justifies to ask for 6.000 dollars! i have seen videos with great ideas and stories there were made without that kind of budget.

 

[Richardplex]

Wow. Talk about one sided journalism. For a rational view of why people are against this

Hey dude, just a quick tip, try reading the article before defending youtube commenters.

Now then, are you insane? Do you seriously think that because you disagree with her position that people should be allowed to say this kind of stuff?

Your comment was at 5 in the morning (in my time), I had editted the fuck out of my original post by 2:30, and I had responded multiple times clearly stating my position, but hey, why not repeat myself to every person?

I think these people are scum and it makes me sick knowing that people think like this, and there are many who do. I like the extra credits idea of dealing like this on the xbox- those who are vile have their mic muted by default and can't message strangers - though it would be awkward to do on youtube

Yes, I totally missed the forest for the trees there, but in no way did I defend the commenters, I was pointing out that not everyone who disagreed with the kickstarter was one of these ****s.

Have I cleared myself as not a misogynist to you yet? Because for 2 and a half hours I had to clarify that I'm in no way on the side of them, I shouldn't continue having to do so 12 hours later.

 

[Woodsey]

Hey, at least one of them had the decency to correct himself when he almost said '******'. Who ever said anti-semetic, misogynistic, racist dip-shits are too stubborn to back down when they're being dumb-dumb, eh?

Anyway, noticed one of the assassins from Blood Money in the thumbnail; wonder if she'll view that as sexism or an intelligent use of gender stereotypes. Or it could just be an image she grabbed, I guess.

Okay... well idiocy aside, that harassment was probably the best thing that could have happened to that project. No such thing as bad publicity and all that.

And ovendodger... going to have to file that one away. I'd love to use that one on my wife just so she could remind me that we don't own an oven... Well either that or she'd punch me. Could go either way.

Ovendodger is an insult to Jews. Probably best to chuck that file in the bin.

 

[Evil Smurf]

I am a kitchen and I find arseholes offensive!

Seriously trolls will troll. YouTube is where trolls are let loose after they are born in 4chan.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Speaking of which, has anyone ever written about the stereotypes male characters get forced into?

I know FF has definitely touched on this, and there's a pretty significant body of scholarly work on the subject.

If you ever wanted to see that there is a problem with sexism in the gamer community, you need look no further than this forum thread (and there are others on Escapist Forums) where feminism is demonized and legions of male gamers come out in defense of the purely imagined attack on themselves.

It's as if someone posted a thread entitled "I really don't like people who kick puppies", only to have hordes of people posting "I love puppies you asshole! and to prove it, here is a picture of me kicking one!" They imagine the attack is levied against them and in their knee-jerk response to such imagined assault, they maneuver themselves right into the camp of people who deserve the attack in the first place.

Hooboy yeah. And the Escapist is actually one of the least bad video game forums for this.

 

[Thandran]

Just came here after reading a Lollipop Chainsaw review. Made me smile.

Don't like what's happening to her ... but 6000 dollars for a documentary about sexism? Seems a bit much.

Well ... I'll judge when I see it. If its good and brings new points to the table I'll be glad. If not ... well, then I don't see the point.